Im not going to give an opinion on the dog fighting.I will say that I watched 60 minutes and as much as I wanted to see a positive moment,I dont think that he has changed at all.Just my observations of his actions and his words made me believe that he was just talking from his mouth not from his heart.It is what it is.I could be wrong but this is what I took from it.JMHO
it doesn't. It just means that he will surround himself around scum once again and he'll go back to his old ways, just a little bit more subtle this time around. As harsh as this sounds, Tony dungy may be religious as they come, but his talks aren't going to just reform vick's behavior. This whole publicity stunt netted him 1.6 million so he's laughing to the bank at all of us.
And you know this how?
Is there not one person on this board besides me that thinks a felony arrest and subsequent 2 years in a federal prison will provide motivation for a guy to be on the straight and narrow? The guy has a second chance now and we should all be hoping he takes advantage of that chance and provides a good example for our youth. Who are we to say he's not sincere in his interviews or pressers? I have no idea if he's sincere or not. I hope he is but I can't say he's not.
My cyber colleague Radley Balko has done extensive research and writing (for Reason magazine and FoxNews among others) on the topic.
His work can be found at http://reason.com and also his personal blog http://theagitator.com
A likely useful search term would be "puppycide" - the term coined by Balko for use in such stories.
Regarding your first note above, count me in as one who has great belief in the lessons learned by not only a felony arrest but also time in federal prison.
And those lessons are more often learned and taken to heart by people who were leading prosperous and otherwise law-abiding lives before their arrest and conviction(s).
---
To your second note, I concur completely.
One of the greatest lessons I've learned in my own life and in observing the lives of other people who have encountered tough consequences for actions in their lives is that Redemption Is Always Possible and that Everyone Is Redeemable
Here's one of his more recent summaries - one of many that he's compiled over just the past few years:
http://www.theagitator.com/2009/06/09/puppycide-roundup/
Puppycide Roundup
<small>Tuesday, June 9th, 2009
<!-- by Radley Balko --></small> Ohio family returns home to find cops tased, then shot and killed their five pound Chihuahua mix after it escaped from the back yard.
Florida sheriff’s office pays $5,000 after deputy shoots family dog during warrant service.
Juvenile chased by cops runs into friend’s house to escape. Cops enter home, shoot family’s pet Akita 13 times.
Birmingham, Alabama pizza shop owner says police opened fire on her dogs unprovoked, killing two of them. Police spokesman says dogs didn’t respond to owner commands. “It appears it was within our firearms policy: they saw a threat to them and they neutralized the threat. They didn’t know if these dogs had a disease or whether they would sustain serious injury from a dog bite.”
Here’s one in Lafayette, Louisiana where witness accounts differ sharply from what the police claim happened.
Police in West Virginia shoot a dog properly on its leashed after it got into a fight with a police K9 dog that was untethered.
Cop shoots dog at playground. In fairness to the cop, if you own a pit bull-ish breed, you should really keep it on a leash in public, especially at a playground. That said, cops need to be better trained in how to deal with dogs, so they can distinguish playfulness from aggression, and so they have options other than just pumping bullets into the animal. Which is pretty much true for most of these stories. There are safer ways of dealing with even legitimately dangerous dogs.
ENF, a bit closer review of that particular excerpt shows that none are related to a "drug bust". But it shouldn't be too hard to find one of the many accounts Balko has collected in just the past few years of cops killing dogs during drug raids.
Perhaps one of more notable occurred here:
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/128019.html
Puppycide in Prince George's County
Radley Balko | August 10, 2008, 10:44am
Ten days ago, police in Prince George's Country, Maryland conducted a mistaken drug raid on Berwyn Heights Mayor Cheye Calvo, his wife, and her mother. During the raid, the shot and killed the family's two black labs, one of which the family says was running away. Police officials now concede that Calvo and his wife were innocent, and they regret that Calvo and his family were "victimized by drug dealers," but they refuse to apologize for the violent tactics, or for killing the dogs.
As it turns out, it isn't the first time Prince George's County police have killed the family pet during a botched raid. From November of last year:
The Myers say the deputies knew immediately they had raided the wrong home. They say it could have ended with an apology, until the couple heard two shots from the yard.
"And I said, 'You just shot my dog," said Pam Myers, through tears. "I just wanted to go out and hold her a bit. They wouldn't even let me go out."
The couple's five-year-old boxer Pearl was killed. The deputy says he feared for his life. They say the dog would bark but was no danger to the deputies.
ABC 7/NewsChannel 8's Brad Bell reports that a search of court records shows a warrant for a suspected drug dealer who lives two doors away at 14610 Livingston Road. The address is clearly displayed on that house.
"It's just not right that people have to worry about - police have their jobs to do, but the house is marked over there. All they had to do was go look," she said. "I want the sheriff to apologize to my family for killing their dog."
The Myers say they have received no apology. They say the deputies just left the scene, offering no explanation.
And the Washington Post reports:
Upper Marlboro resident Amber James has filed a $4 million lawsuit accusing sheriff's deputies of searching her home without a warrant in May 2007 while looking for her sister, who lived in Capitol Heights. According to the suit, deputies falsely claimed to have a warrant and searched every room of the home. When they did not find the sister, the suit alleges, they threatened to return the next day and search again, saying that if they did, James's dog would be dead.
The Post article quotes some law enforcement professional organizations who say that during a raid, killing the family dog should be the absolutely last option. That may be the case, but too many police departments across the country haven't gotten the memo.
Perhaps one of more notable occurred here:
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/128019.html
Puppycide in Prince George's County
Radley Balko | August 10, 2008, 10:44am
Ten days ago, police in Prince George's Country, Maryland conducted a mistaken drug raid on Berwyn Heights Mayor Cheye Calvo, his wife, and her mother. During the raid, the shot and killed the family's two black labs, one of which the family says was running away. Police officials now concede that Calvo and his wife were innocent, and they regret that Calvo and his family were "victimized by drug dealers," but they refuse to apologize for the violent tactics, or for killing the dogs.
As it turns out, it isn't the first time Prince George's County police have killed the family pet during a botched raid. From November of last year:
The Myers say the deputies knew immediately they had raided the wrong home. They say it could have ended with an apology, until the couple heard two shots from the yard.
"And I said, 'You just shot my dog," said Pam Myers, through tears. "I just wanted to go out and hold her a bit. They wouldn't even let me go out."
The couple's five-year-old boxer Pearl was killed. The deputy says he feared for his life. They say the dog would bark but was no danger to the deputies.
ABC 7/NewsChannel 8's Brad Bell reports that a search of court records shows a warrant for a suspected drug dealer who lives two doors away at 14610 Livingston Road. The address is clearly displayed on that house.
"It's just not right that people have to worry about - police have their jobs to do, but the house is marked over there. All they had to do was go look," she said. "I want the sheriff to apologize to my family for killing their dog."
The Myers say they have received no apology. They say the deputies just left the scene, offering no explanation.
And the Washington Post reports:
Upper Marlboro resident Amber James has filed a $4 million lawsuit accusing sheriff's deputies of searching her home without a warrant in May 2007 while looking for her sister, who lived in Capitol Heights. According to the suit, deputies falsely claimed to have a warrant and searched every room of the home. When they did not find the sister, the suit alleges, they threatened to return the next day and search again, saying that if they did, James's dog would be dead.
The Post article quotes some law enforcement professional organizations who say that during a raid, killing the family dog should be the absolutely last option. That may be the case, but too many police departments across the country haven't gotten the memo.
I've got to do some other work now, but will note that over this past year, forensics did confirm that at least one of the black labs at the Calvo house was running away when murdered by the drug raiding cop.
The agency has also since concluded an "internal investigation" and found none of the officers as having done anything wrong that evening.
And The Beat Goes On
The agency has also since concluded an "internal investigation" and found none of the officers as having done anything wrong that evening.
And The Beat Goes On
Let's be honest here Barman. I know exactly where PG county is in Maryland and I know it's a damn dump and scary place. That said, the cops made a mistake at this house. They made an error by raiding the wrong house. That said, did the dog attack the cop and bite him? Hell, the cops say yes and the owner says no. Neither one of us will ever know will we?
I will say that reading through that first link you sent me earlier that was bullshit. That damn dog is a puppy and would pose no threat to anyone. That said, we're not talking about all the other cases where cops and animal control act with pure professionalsim when dealing with animals.
As to the first story, the house belonged to the mayor, for crying out loud
There's plenty more on that story that serves as a terrible indictment of the police involved, but it's drifting offtopic to my original assertion and your subsequent query.
To your second point, I have absolutely no problem agreeing that it's likely 99% or more of police encounters with dogs work out just fine.
My original, somewhat throwaway quip, was to note that given the number of cases where cops kill dogs who pose no demonstrable threat, it must not be as hard to pull the trigger as was implied by the earlier post from KINZ which stated:
If any of you on this board can tell me you could hold a dog under water and drown it or put a rope around a dogs neck and hang it-- you need to get some help..
I'd tie the series of posts together by suggesting that those cops who shot dogs dead without reasonable cause are deeply in need of help, but if they're not found to be guilty of any wrongdoing, I doubt they get it.
And "they" remain on the streets of our community - armed to kill.
Doing a Search at http://theagitator.com using "Calvo" returns all the entries discussing the police killing of the BH Mayor's two labs
Here's the post
http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/02/the-washington-post-on-cheye-calvo/
from Feb 2 that includes coverage from the Washington Post that is horribly damning. And it certainly puts someone like me to the test for my edict posted in another thread about how Redemption Is Always Possible. (sad smile)
I can only hope that the cops involved in both the killing of the dogs and those involved in essentially brushing it off as "acceptable procedure" will find whatever redemption they need to heal their incredibly self-destructed spirits.
Here's the post
http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/02/the-washington-post-on-cheye-calvo/
from Feb 2 that includes coverage from the Washington Post that is horribly damning. And it certainly puts someone like me to the test for my edict posted in another thread about how Redemption Is Always Possible. (sad smile)
I can only hope that the cops involved in both the killing of the dogs and those involved in essentially brushing it off as "acceptable procedure" will find whatever redemption they need to heal their incredibly self-destructed spirits.
