Memo to Supreme Court: Healthcare is not a right

[hehateme82]

This is a good read whether you agree or not:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richard...the-supreme-court-health-care-is-not-a-right/

Excerpt:

In fact, health care is not a right. It’s a valuable service provided by intelligent, hard-working professionals with years of painstaking education and training, people who, like other Americans, deserve equal protection under the law, people who, like other Americans, have a right to their own life, liberty, property and the pursuit of their own happiness. Doctors, nurses, hospitals, drug-makers, and health insurers are no more “servants” of the masses, or even of those in need of health care, than are businessmen, bankers, teachers, journalists, or truck drivers servants of those who need their services. If you want to pay for the services of health care providers, simply do so; if you can’t afford it, try to negotiate a discount, or pay by installments, or seek access to private charity; but you have no “right” to take from health care providers what they’re not willing to supply.

 

[Dave007inVegas]

According to the constitutional lecturer it is.

I just don’t understand why some people refuse to assimilate.

 

[russ1945]

All the focus on Obamacare is now on the mandate requirement as 26 states have challenged this. I have a simple question on a topic that has been shelved nationally by the lame stream media , namely what about the waivers that Obama was passing around for all the wrong reasons. To me that is the biggest indicator that Obamacare is at least flawed. In effect when Obama grants a waiver he is arbitrarily choosing who does not have to comply with the mandate.

Obama et al have passed out a little less than 2000 waivers to businesses, unions and even to 7 states. Pelosi’s district at one time had nearly 20 percent of the waivers and Reid got a waiver for the state of Nevada.

I think this is an area that should be challenged in court. Why did Obama grant waivers to some and not to others? Was there a written uniform policy? Obama promised transparency. It seems like a guy who challenges the authority of the Supreme Court ought to be held liable for how waivers are granted or not.

In the end the question should be if Obamacare is such a great law why did the WH keep exempting only a chosen few and why do they need exemptions at all. Yes the mandate is the question of the day and the Supreme Court will make that call but to assume that the mandate is the only thing about this bill that needs to be scrutinized. In the end the whole bill needs to be scrutinized. In all this time has anyone ever read the whole bill much less those that pushed it and ratified it like Pelosi and Reid.

 

[russ1945]

 

[russ1945]

Cartoons by Jerry Holbert
IT WOULD SEEM THAT SOME FEDERAL JUDGES ARE MAD AS HELL AND AREN'T GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE. OBAMA HAD TO SPOUT-OFF ABOUT THE FEDERAL COURT'S AUTHORITY TO JUDICIAL REVIEW. HIS COMMENTS WERE UNSCRIPTED AND THAT SEEMS TO HAVE GOTTEN HIM IN MORE TROUBLE THAN HE BARGAINED FOR. OH WELL, JUST ANOTHER DAY IN LA LA LAND FOR THE MAN FROM ILLINOIS, HAWAII OR WHERE EVER.

 

[JohnnyMac]

"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice and ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty, . . . etc."

Our founding fathers wrote it right into the fucking Constitution. This is the purpose of government.

 

[festeringZit]

"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice and ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty, . . . etc."

Our founding fathers wrote it right into the fucking Constitution. This is the purpose of government.

Interesting. I read and reread your post multiple times, but I'm still not finding
where it says that healthcare is a right, and that the government has the right
to force everyone to buy health insurance.

Please help me.

 

[snoop]

Yeah, just add healthcare to already a long list of WELFARE in liberal world.

Free foods.
Free housing.
Free education.
and now free healthcare.

Why would anyone want to work at all? Maybe I should quit my job and leech off everyone else to get my fair share of welfare.

 

[snoop]

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."

 

[texansfan]

"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice and ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty, . . . etc."

Our founding fathers wrote it right into the fucking Constitution. This is the purpose of government.

As if your Dear Leader gives a shit about the Constitution. That ass clown in the WH is our version of Putin.

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

We are the only developed first world country in which health care isn't a birthright and where someone could go bankrupt if they get sick.

That's probably because the other countries don't have selfish and heartless right wingers like we do...

 

[snoop]

Then why are you still here? Why don't you pack up and move to Canada already...

Healthcare is a birth right. WTF is wrong with the liberals in this country.

 

[hehateme82]

We are the only developed first world country in which health care isn't a birthright and where someone could go bankrupt if they get sick.

That's probably because the other countries don't have selfish and heartless right wingers like we do...

Should college be a right?

 

[guitarjosh]

"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice and ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty, . . . etc."

Our founding fathers wrote it right into the fucking Constitution. This is the purpose of government.

And here is what James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, said about your interpretation : "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”

 

[guitarjosh]

We are the only developed first world country in which health care isn't a birthright and where someone could go bankrupt if they get sick.

That's probably because the other countries don't have selfish and heartless right wingers like we do...

I'd say it is because they are filled with brain dead liberals. If people are going bankrupt from getting sick, they should buy insurance with no coinsurance.

 

[russ1945]

D.E.A.C - have you ever heard of anyone being turned down at an E.R. Now the one Michelle Obama worked for might ship you of to another hospital but you are eventually going to get treatment regardless of your financial condition. You can't get blood out of a turnip. That is why medical costs have sky rocketed on their own and why the threat of Obamacare has shot them even higher. I might be for a low cost minumum coverage type of policy or better yet just establish hospitals for people on welfare etc. and that is where they go. Healthcare is not a right, promoting the general welfare is a totally different concept. We surpass just about any nation I am aware of when it comes to entitlements, that's why we are in the shape we are in. I am not selfish and I am not heartless but why can't these people on welfare make some kind of contributions "to the general welfare" themselves or is that a one way street. Too many gold brickers to even attempt to play on sympathies. I see you show no respect referring to "the fucking Constitution" which I personally honor and respect. I have never referred to something I respect as "the fucking Constitution.

 

[akphidelt]

I can't figure out why any American wouldn't want healthcare to be a right for American's. So children, elderly, and the sick will be dependent on their capitalistic worth to society?

Makes no sense. We have the resources, we have the infrastructure, we have the technology, how can anyone morally choose to deny someone healthcare because they haven't made enough money?

Guess people have different values.

 

[Albatross]

I can't figure out why any American wouldn't want healthcare to be a right for American's. So children, elderly, and the sick will be dependent on their capitalistic worth to society?

Makes no sense. We have the resources, we have the infrastructure, we have the technology, how can anyone morally choose to deny someone healthcare because they haven't made enough money?

Guess people have different values.

The biggest beef I have with the Obamacare is its being forced on all Americans. The issue I don't quite understand is the supporters of the law want to claim the same point you are making. I am no expert on the issue, but here in Georgia we have a program called peachcare. That is a state funded health care for the poor. I am not sure if all states have programs like this, but I would like to believe they do. I have company insurance policy, it is ok, but I still have to pay for things like doctor visits, meds, etc. The problem like BO likes to flap about is say a kid that is 24, graduate of college, still living at home, but the parents insurance won't cover. Tough shit, get a job and pay for insurance. It's your choice. When I graduated college, I lived with my parents for about a year until my house was finished being built. At the time, I was working with a small firm that didn't offer insurance. I simply bought my own policy. I think it was like $250 per month. I was living at home with no bills, working a job, and raking in money. Paying for the insurance was no problem. Even if I was renting a place, the insurance would still be no problem. It's simply a cost of living, and yes it sucked to pay, but so does taxes. The train of thought with many of the younger generation has that insurance should be given without paying is just BS. What's next, depending on the government to pay my bills or my gas? It's all part of being a responsible adult. If you don't like it, then get off your ass and do something about it. The politicians like to talk about the most extreme cases, but I would bet that is such a minimal percent of people that it doesn't even factor into the discussion. Where am I wrong here?

 

[akphidelt]

The biggest beef I have with the Obamacare is its being forced on all Americans. The issue I don't quite understand is the supporters of the law want to claim the same point you are making. I am no expert on the issue, but here in Georgia we have a program called peachcare. That is a state funded health care for the poor. I am not sure if all states have programs like this, but I would like to believe they do. I have company insurance policy, it is ok, but I still have to pay for things like doctor visits, meds, etc. The problem like BO likes to flap about is say a kid that is 24, graduate of college, still living at home, but the parents insurance won't cover. Tough shit, get a job and pay for insurance. It's your choice. When I graduated college, I lived with my parents for about a year until my house was finished being built. At the time, I was working with a small firm that didn't offer insurance. I simply bought my own policy. I think it was like $250 per month. I was living at home with no bills, working a job, and raking in money. Paying for the insurance was no problem. Even if I was renting a place, the insurance would still be no problem. It's simply a cost of living, and yes it sucked to pay, but so does taxes. The train of thought with many of the younger generation has that insurance should be given without paying is just BS. What's next, depending on the government to pay my bills or my gas? It's all part of being a responsible adult. If you don't like it, then get off your ass and do something about it. The politicians like to talk about the most extreme cases, but I would bet that is such a minimal percent of people that it doesn't even factor into the discussion. Where am I wrong here?

I understand what you are saying. But that's kind of my point... we already do pay for other peoples healthcare, and tax payers already pay for all the individuals who don't have insurance and can't afford their healthcare. We pay for it not only through the Govt but also through higher insurance/health care costs ourselves.

And you say "tough shit, get a job"... that would only work in a world in which health care wasn't already an option. They don't have to get a job because it's already paid for by the rest of us. Having everyone who makes an income in America chip in to lower these costs for everyone else just seems like common sense to me.

The only way the conservative healthcare ideology works is if you deny health coverage to people who can't afford. If that is not an option, then you have to figure out a way to cover the costs of the millions upon millions of poor people who are already sucking up our dollars and making us pay through the roof.

If you take the politics out of it, it is absolutely a good idea. In fact it was the Republican's proposal in the 90s.

 

[guitarjosh]

I understand what you are saying. But that's kind of my point... we already do pay for other peoples healthcare, and tax payers already pay for all the individuals who don't have insurance and can't afford their healthcare. We pay for it not only through the Govt but also through higher insurance/health care costs ourselves.

And you say "tough shit, get a job"... that would only work in a world in which health care wasn't already an option. They don't have to get a job because it's already paid for by the rest of us. Having everyone who makes an income in America chip in to lower these costs for everyone else just seems like common sense to me.

The only way the conservative healthcare ideology works is if you deny health coverage to people who can't afford. If that is not an option, then you have to figure out a way to cover the costs of the millions upon millions of poor people who are already sucking up our dollars and making us pay through the roof.

If you take the politics out of it, it is absolutely a good idea. In fact it was the Republican's proposal in the 90s.

The big problem with current health care costs boils down to 2 laws. One that tells every doctor that they must treat everyone who comes to them regardless of their ability to pay, the other that tells employers they must buy their employees' insurance. The way to fix the problem is to repeal those laws and replace them with more market friendly laws. The first tells doctors that the only people they must treat are people with insurance. The second repeals the law that says employers must provide it for their employees, and the employers must pass all the money spent on health care to their employees, who can then buy their own coverage.

Roughly 16% of Americans will be without health insurance at any given time. About half of those people aren't chronically without insurance, they're in between jobs. Making them buy their own coverage will keep them insured if they become unemployed or want to change jobs. Of the remaining 8%, about half can buy it buy choose to spend their money elsewhere, letting their neighbors pick up the tab if they get sick. Telling doctors they don't have to treat people like that will fix that problem. The remaining 4% that wants coverage but can't afford it could get some help from the government.