Xpanda,
The neteller guys were subject to US law because they made the mistake of coming to the United States.
The US government has remained steadfast in their belief that if you break any US law outside the US and then return to the US you can be arrested.
Whether or not it will hold up in court - we will see...
Sean
The neteller guys were subject to US law because they made the mistake of coming to the United States.
The US government has remained steadfast in their belief that if you break any US law outside the US and then return to the US you can be arrested.
Whether or not it will hold up in court - we will see...
Sean
sean1 said:
No, no, no. The U.S. Gov. does not contend this. The DOJ believes the U.S. has jurisdiction over the Neteller transactions due to the amount of contact those transactions had within the geography of the US. Namely, the people sending and receiving $ to and from Neteller were physically located in the US when doing so. While I disagree (and I believe the WTO does also, although I'm not completely up on its recent decisions) with its position, that is the basis upon which the DOJ uses to charge offshore operations doing business with US customers. The US Gov does not believe, as you imply, that people doing drugs in Holland are breaking US drug laws. You can be a prostitute in Amsterdam, and then come to the US without being prosecuting for your actions that had no contact or involvement with the US.
Forgive me if I sound didactic, and maybe you meant precisely what I wrote above. And regardless, I think you and I are on the same side on this one!
sean1 said:
They were subject to US law all along (according to the DoJ, that is), but could only be arrested by coming to the US (or extradited, but that's quite messy). Obviously if these Youteller folks (or any NETeller replacement) wish to do business with the US market and offshore gaming, they need to stay away from the states.
But I fail to see how YouTeller thinks they're getting around US laws simply because they aren't using US processors. The charges, as BigFish points out, are based on helping individual Americans send money for the express purpose of transfer to illegal gambling sites. What is YouTeller going to do differently?
Why do you respond to all my post except the 1 where I told you and everyone else that the new laws are aimed at making all the offshore bookmakers and the banks that transfer the money money launderers?
You disapeared after the neteller guys got arrested for ? money laundering!
The Goverment doesn't need 1 cent to back these new laws. The banks themselves have to police themselves and if they don't they will also be looking at money laundering charges. The law will be enforced by the banking institutions because they have to!
You disapeared after the neteller guys got arrested for ? money laundering!
The Goverment doesn't need 1 cent to back these new laws. The banks themselves have to police themselves and if they don't they will also be looking at money laundering charges. The law will be enforced by the banking institutions because they have to!
How much money does it take for a goverment employee to post up at Bodog.com and request a payout? After the person gets the payout they know right away who is transfering the money and will contact the source and tell them to stop or else.
Every time a new payment option is started the goverment employee will ask for a payout and that 1 will also get shut down.
I'm sorry, but there's no way around this law and it doesn't matter where you are getting the money. I don't like this either, but to ignore what's going to happen is your mistake.
But I would asume you don't send money offshore. That would show your ignorance to the entire subject.
Every time a new payment option is started the goverment employee will ask for a payout and that 1 will also get shut down.
I'm sorry, but there's no way around this law and it doesn't matter where you are getting the money. I don't like this either, but to ignore what's going to happen is your mistake.
But I would asume you don't send money offshore. That would show your ignorance to the entire subject.
This is the problem offshore bookmakers are going to have. I am an offshore bookmaker and know first hand how difficult it is going to be to transfer money in and out of the U.S.A.
Don't ever tell me I don't know what's going on. I am telling you what the major problem for all the books is going to be and YOU just keep on telling everyone what I post isn't true.
It's 100% true and if you were running an offshore book you would also see what's about to happen. Stop lying to people that everythings O.K.
Don't ever tell me I don't know what's going on. I am telling you what the major problem for all the books is going to be and YOU just keep on telling everyone what I post isn't true.
It's 100% true and if you were running an offshore book you would also see what's about to happen. Stop lying to people that everythings O.K.
Dr. Know it all said:
I dont disagree with that statement. But with out a law in place the banks dont have to enforce anything, they can choose to however and will try for awhile. Its impossible to do on a big scale though with over 8500 banks in the US and they will need money to bring uniformity to the system and prove they are trying to COMPLY which is the big issue.
It aint the law per say. Its proving thru paperwork of compliance that you are trying to enforce it. Much like 6A here you have to turn in stuff everyday showing that you are doing your job policing the community.
The goverment cant take your word on it.
This means at some point paperwork and the like will have to be developed which is why there was a 270 day window given and 10 million to get it done in the first place.
Without it, its a no go on a wide scale. Many will slip thru the cracks overtime.
Also the NT arrest are bogus. You have to follow me on MW for my more serious stuff. It wont stand.
do you really think its in anybanks interest to screw around for a couple ofbucks in transfer fees.? same asthe firms in europethat were public companies first out because public companies cant just openly violate laws (I know some do) so the banks arent goingto worry about your few dimes. Riggs bank in Washngton now part of PNC used to launder money for diplomats like Pinochet of CHile but they are not going to break laws for gamblers there nothing in it. just my thoughts heart222
My Friends and fellow Americans...
I don't know how old the average age of readership is here, nor how much background they may have in the United States history; etc etc. So, when making a "blanket statement" ( covers all--i use the word blanket to cover EVERYBODY).
Let me be clear about ONE thing. Everything today is subject to review by lawyers. That in and of itself is why we are in this situation. THEY make MONEY when there is confusion and get to represent you or me in a court of "law". It's not a bad profession in and of itself, (plently of decent folks there) but it has clearly run "amuck". Our fouding fathers did NOT intend for US lawmakers to be professionally elected and to serve constant and MULTIPLE terms. They wanted it to be the "common man". But today throughout this great land our choices have become limited to whichever big money interest that is offered.
Folks--please wake up and when whatever election is available to you at whatever city or state or federal level there migh be--do NOT vote for any incumbant!
They are exactly what the founding fathers did NOT want--"BOUGHT and PAID FOR"!!
I don't know how old the average age of readership is here, nor how much background they may have in the United States history; etc etc. So, when making a "blanket statement" ( covers all--i use the word blanket to cover EVERYBODY).
Let me be clear about ONE thing. Everything today is subject to review by lawyers. That in and of itself is why we are in this situation. THEY make MONEY when there is confusion and get to represent you or me in a court of "law". It's not a bad profession in and of itself, (plently of decent folks there) but it has clearly run "amuck". Our fouding fathers did NOT intend for US lawmakers to be professionally elected and to serve constant and MULTIPLE terms. They wanted it to be the "common man". But today throughout this great land our choices have become limited to whichever big money interest that is offered.
Folks--please wake up and when whatever election is available to you at whatever city or state or federal level there migh be--do NOT vote for any incumbant!
They are exactly what the founding fathers did NOT want--"BOUGHT and PAID FOR"!!
Barney Frank chairs the finance committee. There's a better chance of him funding cocaine growth and importation than this law.
But anyways - yes, the DOJ contends you can break US law by doing something illegal with US citizens (Neteller). But if you dont come here, nothing happens to you. I never meant the DOJ did not think they were subject to US law while in the UK or Canada.. I just meant they werent subject too it since they were sitting on a beach with $$$ instead of in jail.
If you set up a child prostitution ring somewhere where it is legal and you invite Americans there, you better believe it they will arrest you when you come back to the States (And they should!)
But the bottom line is, if you stay somewhere where it is legal to gamble, you are fine.
There has not been 1 arrest of any gambling related person in any country where online gambling is LEGAL.
Sean
But anyways - yes, the DOJ contends you can break US law by doing something illegal with US citizens (Neteller). But if you dont come here, nothing happens to you. I never meant the DOJ did not think they were subject to US law while in the UK or Canada.. I just meant they werent subject too it since they were sitting on a beach with $$$ instead of in jail.
If you set up a child prostitution ring somewhere where it is legal and you invite Americans there, you better believe it they will arrest you when you come back to the States (And they should!)
But the bottom line is, if you stay somewhere where it is legal to gamble, you are fine.
There has not been 1 arrest of any gambling related person in any country where online gambling is LEGAL.
Sean
