LegalBook / Five Card Charlie / Fair Deal answers ROO.....

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I appreciate your clarification and would like to respond, but I have a few questions for ROO first.

ROO,

If you wouldn't mind , could you tell us when you were first contacted or had a conversation with management of 5CC as to what was going to become of your 86k account?
Was it before or after the change of ownership, and what were you told?
Were you referred to Cashew NV and was there or is there now anyone from Cashew that can be located, or have they disappeared?

Thanks.
 

Roo

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Prior to the takeover Fair Deal had asked me to stop playing and had agreed to make payment of $2500 per week. These payments certainly did not arrive weekly but persistent phone calls resulted in a number of successful payments.

I was at no time informed that a change of management was taking place. My first indication of this occurred when I again rang to ask for another payment. At this point in time I was informed that the management had changed and that the new management would not be honouring my debt.

Numerous discussions took place regarding whether of not 5CC had any obligation to honour all or any portion of the debt. I asked for the details of the old owners and initially Mike’s reply was that he would think about it but there would be no point in contacting them since they didn’t have any money. He later offered to give me their details (he stated he was upset at them because they had f….d him) on the condition that I acknowledged he had no responsibility for my debt. I never got the details and do not know who or where they are.
 

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It was a lose lose case but it does show they care much like other sportsbooks I have a relationship with


Yogi if that's the case how come they haven't even made an offer to Roo? He has bent over backwards tryting to work with them and they won't do a damn thing.
 

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bettorstalk.com,
I agree with all of what you say... except...

"the fact remains is they assumed the fairdeal debts and paid them all except Roo!!"

Did they?

What consideration did Cashew receive?

How did the software company engineer this "assumption"?

Clearly it was a win-win for them and Five Card. Five Card purchased the Fair Deal URL (that was the legal property of the software company and NOT Fair Deals) and "assumed" all accounts except Roo's. More than likely Five Card signed a multi-year lease with the software company.

But, were these transactions legitimate? and who owns Roo's account?

Thank you,
Joe

Joe the simple point is that they paid all other gamblers EXCEPT ROO!! Can you say that's right?


What consideration did Cashew receive?
I'm sure they received something or did the software company just kick them out. And i'm sure they were glad someone came in and took over the players debts.

How did the software company engineer this "assumption"? See above

But, were these transactions legitimate? and who owns Roo's account?

Well if they werent Legitimate then I guess everyone that was paid should send back their money.

This isn't about legally right or wrong it's about a simple fact:

5 Card Charlie paid off every player that was owed except Roo...And anyone should be able to see that its total BS!!

Put yourself in his shoes what if you were told well we paid off everyone but you....sorry.

You wouldnt be pissed and want 5 card charlie to pay you?

Why doesn't someone ask the Owner of the old Fair Deal what he thinks about this?
 

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"The reason being that if it was a legal set up, then the accounts belonged to Cashew, not Fair Deal.

"This is important in trying to determine legal ownership/responsibility for debts. Though from your perspective, you may see this as splitting hairs"

I was not aware it was even an issue. A simple power of attorney would take care of the issue of the software company's involvement in the sale. But even if a court were to decide that 5CC can purchase Fair Deal in that manner, leaving the responsibility for one big account with a defunct corporation, it still stinks.

"And no one is trying to make Roo's debt disappear. Five Card merely states that it is not their responsibility. The issue is - Where does responsibility for Roo's account lie?

"And it may very well lie with Five Card...

"Bottom Line - You are looking at the result and saying "This sucks - it is all Five Card's fault".

I asked ROO how he was notified because I wanted to know how 5CC handled that situation. It looks like they handled that badly, too.
I should point out that I think Mike Fine probably had good intentions for this deal( I mean profit may not have been the #1 factor--maybe somewhere down the road), but it has been a PR fiasco due to various mis-steps.
5CC should have contacted ROO before they made the deal--not after. IMHO, Mike Fine should have called ROO and told him "Fair Deal is broke and unable to pay anyone. We wish we could help, but we just can't pick up your account balance. We can offer $xxxx.xx, but if that is unacceptable to you, my company will have to walk away." Then he should have offered to provide ROO with all the information he needed to make an informed decision.
But he chose to buy Fair Deal and then tell ROO there was new ownership and his 86k would not be paid. Then he finally posted a response to the forums, and that response wasn't just throwing fuel on the fire, it was the equivalent of backing up a gasoline tanker and pumping it onto the fire.
And if somebody is claiming that ROO's debt belongs to Cashew NV (an apparently insolvent corporation), I think they are trying to make it disappear.

[This message was edited by 3rd&long on 08-20-01 at 05:26 AM.]
 
Those of you who are looking to lift the blame from FCC need to answer this question. Who payed all the players that were payed?
If it was Five Card, then they should pay ROO! DUH!
 

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Mike Fine is an asshole scamming tout. If you believe he had good intentions, you're justy an idiot.
 

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For what it's worth I had active accounts at both Legalbook/FCC and Fairdeal over the last few years. Legalbook was my first sportsbook and I was referred to them by a scamdicapper back in November 1997. They didn't even give me the 10% initial bonus until I specifically requested it a couple days after the account was opened. They funneled $6,000 in funds from my account at my request to the scamdicapper who I foolishly trusted. After I realized I'd been taken by the scamdicapper I asked Legalbook to provide a paper record of the missing 6 dimes and they refused.

I reloaded my account in order to make the sportsbook pay for their association with the
scamdicapper, and Legalbook didn't give me a reload bonus as promised. After I won several times what I deposited they sent me a check that was dated more than 1 year before (that appeared to be an accident, it was the first business day of 1998). I sent it back and they promised they would pay the cost for this. By then I decided to play some more, won some more, and requested a payout. They deducted the cost of a Fedex the second time even though they had promised not to do so.

I don't know if the management is the same (I've never heard of Mike Fine before), but it
sounds like they still make up the rules as it suits them in these situations.

Later I opened an account at Fairdeal and I just about broke even after maybe 6 months
of action. They knew of my success wagering at Legalbook/Five Card Charlie and other
sportsbooks in the Bon Bini Business Center and closed my account in mid 2000 after I
refused to accept their grading a no-action baseball wager as a loss. I got everything
they owed me. I also had accounts at Wallstreet Superbook (wssbsport.com), VIP Sports
and Gameday which were also closed after I won $. They all use the same or similar software as FCC/Fairdeal. One account (at VIP) was closed after a FiveCardCharlie employee (I believe he was a manager) that knew me answered their phone; he acted in an odd manner until I made a bet and he conferred with others in the room and I was informed that my account was being closed.

I remember that Fairdeal was listed as an approved sportsbook at this site probably as late as a year ago. I also recall that the writeup indicated that they had a separate fund that added up to the combined total of customer balances set up to handle payouts. So I was surprised when I heard what happened.

In a nutshell, these sportsbooks are located very close together and I would not be surprised if there is more to this than meets the eye. They all operate in a similar manner - remember VIP's initial non-payment of a credit customer about a year ago? The tone of the discussion in that thread seemed to change after I posted about VIP's odd practices - in one case they deleted a golf wager I made online at +120 and re-entered it at +110, without notifying me except thru an email stating the initial wager had been deleted. And there was a 20 cent line in both cases, so it was inexplicable.

If Fairdeal could fold, then I believe the same can happen to VIP, Gameday, Wallstreetsuperbook, or maybe even FiveCardCharlie. I believe that if FCC hadn't taken on the Fairdeal's debt, it would have hurt all of these books. I find it hard to believe that FCC/Legalbook acted all alone in the financing of paying these customers; I think they are the oldest and largest of the bunch and so their name is what we see. Don't give up Roo
 

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5CC:

So, you think my post-up money is a LOAN to sportsbooks such as yours.
Very good, excellent choice of word.
But how much is the interest rate you will pay us?
Being an offshore site thousands of miles away, your credit rating is below F--, the junkiest of junk bond rating. By not paying ROO, you just confirmed your rating.
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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5CC/Fairdeal are a joke ...

they lay prices with inflated chalk & valued dogs ...

problem is that if you play the value they treat you like an asshole & boot you within day ...

let's be honest here - 5CC is only looking for super-squares so they can lay off on the dog at Pinn ... they aren't bookies, they're glorified scalpers.
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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LOL UB
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Well, ok, at least they pay now, but they're only good for Ivan/Danny types
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lander

I feel like i am in a time warp...And i think i like it, but, i want to go home...

Help me lander...........help me...
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There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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LOL ...
I'd help but I suffer from a rare phobia ..

... ForChristsSakeNotTheEighthChinRollOfDeathPhobia
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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Dammit UB - X isn't legal yet!!

There is no light!! Just chins, chins & more chins!
 
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....chins...
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I like the specked chins...with the lions on top..
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$10 a pop???

It was in 2003
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There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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$10 a pop???

Yep, but you're in luck ... 2003 is on the verge of deflation ...

they're dropping it to $8.75 a pop or 3 chins for $20
 

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these guys are a joke, avoid them like the plague since they only want suckers who intend to lose.

I was tossed for playing some inflated dogs and the guy on the other end of the phone doing the tossing was an asshole, what ever his name is.
 

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