Joe the Plumber cleans Obama's Asspipe

[piccolo]

I don't mind paying taxes as long as they arent buying $600 toilet seats for Navy ships & giving it to some fucking freeloader sitting on his ass collecting a check every month & laughing at me for doing it & pissing money away in a myriad of other ways just to pacify the voters back home to get re elected & by catering to special interests to get re elected...Throw the bums out & start over!

And i dont mind paying taxes as long as they arent going to some kansas farmer in susbsidies while the farmer is making millions hand over fist growing corn..

I dont wanna pay taxes so republicans can lead us to useless wars and reward their friends no bid contracts for sub par work.. (another form of wealth redistribution)

I dont wanna pay taxes so that some Pakistani dictator can build himself multiple summer holiday houses across Europe.

I sure as hell dont wanna pay taxes to raise kids whose parents didnt even want them and could have aborted them.

Hell i dont wanna pay taxes just so some moron can fly a machine to mars to tell us what kind of rocks are on the planet!

Who in the hell gives you the right to assume that its up to you to decide how the government will waste tax payer money.

Who in the hell gives you the right to decide what is valid redistribution of our taxes..(ie giving money hand over fist to military contractors, farmers and oil companies)

 

[barman]

In a few short years, I bet guys like Joe will leave this socialist cesspool in droves if Obama gets his way.

And go where?

I can totally relate to the JoePlumber analogy because for the past 24 years I've been Steve the Gardener - an owner operator of residential lawn and landscaping business.

I'm blessed to have, in combination with my wife's corporate sales job, an income that is higher than about 90% of Americans, but still under half of the threshold where President Obama would endorse an increase in personal income tax rates.

I am absolutely unaware of any other country in the world where my wife and I could do what we do now and enjoy the lifestyle which we now live.

Clue me in....When Obama is elected President, where is it that will be better for me and my wife to move?

 

[levistep]

Neither Jefferson or Franklin lived in the 20th or 21st centuries, during which time America became the world's super power economically and the standard of domestic living became the highest in the world.

What does time have to do with anything? Wealth rose significantly during their lives as well.

And at the base of this greatest century in world history was over one billion (all told) Americans who agreeably have paid income taxes and a long list of other local, state and federal taxes to finance our great infrastructure and world dominance.

They, or at least the overwhelming majority, paid them willingly? I always thought it was the threat of force.

 

[piccolo]

And go where?

I can totally relate to the JoePlumber analogy because for the past 24 years I've been Steve the Gardener - an owner operator of residential lawn and landscaping business.

I'm blessed to have, in combination with my wife's corporate sales job, an income that is higher than about 90% of Americans, but still under half of the threshold where President Obama would endorse an increase in personal income tax rates.

I am absolutely unaware of any other country in the world where my wife and I could do what we do now and enjoy the lifestyle which we now live.

Clue me in....When Obama is elected President, where is it that will be better for me and my wife to move?

I will give you 100 bucks if he gives you an answer. (probably gonna suggest that frigid cold rocky barren wetland where absolutely no one cares for landscapin called Ireland...)

They dont even have enough people in that little frigid island to compete with California, just one of the many states in the usa.uke1: (no offense to the irish, but i dont find that country remotely romantic. Been there, and i hated every freaking cols ass minute of it)

 

[piccolo]

What does time have to do with anything? Wealth rose significantly during their lives as well.


They, or at least the overwhelming majority, paid them willingly? I always thought it was the threat of force.

Ok thats funny. Can any one here name one society ever in history that willingly paid taxes? Can you possibly be this naive?

 

[barman]

They, or at least the overwhelming majority, paid them willingly? I always thought it was the threat of force.

I suppose there's a portion of Americans who suggest, "I only pay my income taxes because I don't want to be arrested".

But speaking for myself and most people I know, we pay because we're agreeable to members of the community collectively pooling our resources (wealth?) for the common interests.

Of more interest to me as a community member is not neccesarily "how much" I pay in income tax, but rather, how that revenue is applied.

To that end, it's still pretty much an agreeable arrangement.

I don't want "my" tax dollars funding US military doing mercenary work.

Another guy doesn't want "his" tax dollars funding the building of houses for lower income Americans.

===
In the 21st century, taxation at the federal level is clearly the level that creates the most discontent among the average American - me included.
While at the same time, far fewer of us have significant complaint about taxes we pay at the state and especially the local levels.

That's why I openly promote civilly disobeying the federal tax code by doing whatever you can to conceal income and revenue from the feds.

While at the same time, actively taking those concealed revenues and directing them to channels which honestly benefit your local and state communities as a whole.

 

[barman]

Ok thats funny. Can any one here name one society ever in history that willingly paid taxes? Can you possibly be this naive?

Go easy....heh

Your enthusiastic choice of FONT TYPE aside, I'll partially reset my last post in which I submit that in fact, many of us willingly pay taxes.

And that level of willingness rises in direct proportion to our confidence that the money involved will be honestly channeled into something of value for ourselves and by extension - our community.

That confidence level rises for most of us the closer we are to home.

I have a fair level of confidence in the government of both Clearwater FL (population about 100,000) and also Pinellas County (population about 900,000) FL

I still have confidence, though it's greatly lessened, in the overall government administrated in Tallahassee FL

I have a modest confidence in many parts of our federal government, but there's no doubt that's where I have my highest level of criticism and complaint.

I think most of us are not too far off from the above.

Thus I willingly and with no complaint pay my water, sewer, street and property taxes which in turn are rechanneled into making Clearwater and Pinellas County a better place to live.

For the most part, I pay without complaint state taxes, which in Florida are primarily centered around a retail sales tax and also a portion of property taxes.

And I think I stated clearly in my last post how I view paying federal taxes.

I pay those without much complaint since I know that in fact much of my federal tax dollar is used for common good. As for the part with which "I" think federal tax dollars are used in poor and/or immoral fashion, that is how I can promote civilly disobeying the federal tax code and still sleep sound at night.

 

[roadreeler57]

And i dont mind paying taxes as long as they arent going to some kansas farmer in susbsidies while the farmer is making millions hand over fist growing corn..

I dont wanna pay taxes so republicans can lead us to useless wars and reward their friends no bid contracts for sub par work.. (another form of wealth redistribution)

I dont wanna pay taxes so that some Pakistani dictator can build himself multiple summer holiday houses across Europe.

I sure as hell dont wanna pay taxes to raise kids whose parents didnt even want them and could have aborted them.

Hell i dont wanna pay taxes just so some moron can fly a machine to mars to tell us what kind of rocks are on the planet!

Who in the hell gives you the right to assume that its up to you to decide how the government will waste tax payer money.

Who in the hell gives you the right to decide what is valid redistribution of our taxes..(ie giving money hand over fist to military contractors, farmers and oil companies)[/quote]
Well I guess Im not anybody according to the last part of your post & did'nt imply that just gave my own opinion...excuse me for livin....

 

[bigplay]

bend over barack

It's like 14-0 in the bottom of the 9th. Just save yourself the embarrassment.

%^_

 

[tiznow]

as usual everybody talks about taxes without talking about spending

if you want lower taxes demand lower spending from your government

its pretty simple

don't bitch and complain that you are taking more from me than this guy......get to the root of the problem.....go after government not your fellow man that is getting raped by it just like you.....

and we all know or should know government spending (especially at the federal level...i accept state socialism and taxes more than federal....the closer the money stays to its original source...the better) is very wasteful and inefficient

 

[piccolo]

Go easy....heh

Your enthusiastic choice of FONT TYPE aside, I'll partially reset my last post in which I submit that in fact, many of us willingly pay taxes.

And that level of willingness rises in direct proportion to our confidence that the money involved will be honestly channeled into something of value for ourselves and by extension - our community.

That confidence level rises for most of us the closer we are to home.

I have a fair level of confidence in the government of both Clearwater FL (population about 100,000) and also Pinellas County (population about 900,000) FL

I still have confidence, though it's greatly lessened, in the overall government administrated in Tallahassee FL

I have a modest confidence in many parts of our federal government, but there's no doubt that's where I have my highest level of criticism and complaint.

I think most of us are not too far off from the above.

Thus I willingly and with no complaint pay my water, sewer, street and property taxes which in turn are rechanneled into making Clearwater and Pinellas County a better place to live.

For the most part, I pay without complaint state taxes, which in Florida are primarily centered around a retail sales tax and also a portion of property taxes.

And I think I stated clearly in my last post how I view paying federal taxes.

I pay those without much complaint since I know that in fact much of my federal tax dollar is used for common good. As for the part with which "I" think federal tax dollars are used in poor and/or immoral fashion, that is how I can promote civilly disobeying the federal tax code and still sleep sound at night.

ACtually i wholly agree with you on the value of paying your taxes and not bitching too much about it like most people do.

HOwever, i completely disagree with the notion that you pay your taxes willingly.

You remind me so much of Neo in the movie the Matrix. But the early part, where Neo actually believes in the illusion of choice.

You have been brought up and taught to be an honest hardworking american contributing his fair share into the matrix..eerrrm..System.. You have been brainwashed..sorry i mean, taught the difference between right and wrong and are now under the mistaken assumption that you do right because that is just part of your nature. You are a good person. A decent wholesome person who could never do wrong to any one.

Funny thing is that about 100 or more years ago the entire mass population of Europe believed the same. They grew up killing and slaughtering millions in Africa, the middleeast, India, china South America in hopes of expanding their colonies and stealing the wealth of those they considered inferior to them. They carried this on right through the late 1930's until a failed artist from Germany by the name of Hitler gave them a dose of their own medicine. Even while the nazi's rampaged across Europe (exactly like the europeans had done all over most of the rest of the world) there were several decent germans who stood by and accepted the astounding horrors of the death camps and biblical mass murders. See people have this habit of reviling those germans that stood silent while the germans slaughtered 100s of thousands in death camps. No one ever says of the millions killed by the british or the french in colonies in africa, china, south america etc. Numbers almost close to what the germans managed. Yet its the Nazi who is reviled while perpertrators of the western imperialistic policies are hailed as heroes all over Europe and have movies made about them.


You my friend are just telling yourself what you have been born and bred to believe. You are no different from the silent german living 2 miles from the death camp breathing in the fumes of decomposing dead bodies in the ovens of the death camps. You are human and are very capable of justifying anything and posting the most eloquent argument as to why you pay your taxes. (i am not calling you a nazi or a nazi sympathizer, i am using that portion of history to explain to you that your are pretending to be a decent human just like they did not because you are good, but because the laws of the "matrix" govern your reasoning and thus your being. Remove said laws or changed them, you my friend will probably be just as willing to accept the change as those germans, or french or british did. The unthinkable would only be palatable to you depending on how you were brought up (or brainwashed) into what you are today.


The truth of the matter is you pay your taxes because in the back of your mind you know damn well that the government will send Agent Smith to delete you from the matrix as soon as you refuse to pay your taxes! Your house will be take from you and your children and loved ones will suffer.

You may tell yourself whatever you want to believe, or justify your compliance to the tax code in whatever manner you wish, but the truth is you really dont have a choice. It is just an illusion that society has pulled over your eyes. And the threat of force is what guides you to tell yourself that is by choice you pay your taxes.

 

[barman]

PICC, your impassioned and colorful 2:09am post psychoanalyzing me belies that I am someone who in this very thread (and often in other venues when called upon) enthusiastically promotes civilly disobeying the status quo.

Perhaps you overlooked the couple of references I made encouraging Americans of all stripes to learn and practice ways of concealing income from the feds.

As for paying at the lower levels (local and state) there's little fear of "Agent Sam" showing up at my door if I fail to pay requisite taxes.

Fear is not even in play since for me, virtually all taxes paid at the state (no state income tax in Florida) and local level are directly tied to property ownership and/or services rendered.

If I'm not willing to pay property tax, all I need to do is not own real property. If I choose to purchase real estate, I am stating my willingness to pay associated taxes.

All other state and local taxes are tied to the point of sale and/or services rendered. Whether I'm "willing" or not, if I choose to not pay the associated tax, I will be denied access to the product or services associated with that tax.

Moreover, I am in fact quite willing to pay those taxes becuase I like the products and/or services I receive in return.

===

ps...You can spare The Matrix analogies because I've never seen the movie(s).

 

[Preussen]

The point is, you fuck Joe over by taxing the hell out of his hard earned money and give it to someone who didnt earn it...why should Joe employ anybody? He should sell the company and just be a regular working stiff with his hand out to the government like everyone else.

Incredible how often I read this nonsensical argument.
As far as I understand Taxes will only get raised for those with incomes of $250k+. Assuming Joe makes $300k after taxes now and would make $280k after the tax increase, are you really expecting that he will close up his shop and make do with, say, 20k just because he disliked the tax raise??

 

[piccolo]

PICC,

Moreover, I am in fact quite willing to pay those taxes becuase I like the products and/or services I receive in return.

===

ps...You can spare The Matrix analogies because I've never seen the movie(s).

Perharps you should see the movie. ITs very enlightening when you see them movie from a "tax system" angle instead of getting confused by the graphic effects.

It would greatly help enlighten you the illusion of choice which you still display in stating that you willingly pay your taxes.