Is the B-12 aimng to snatch a Pac-12 team?

[WinOne]

Mike Stoops flies into Houston all the time. If they add Houston to the conference OU will lose at least a couple of recruits a year from the Houston market. But knowing David Boren he will probably pussy out and go along with accepting them, because all he really cares about is the money. The only thing I can hope for at this point is the Big 12 adds 2 or 4 teams but OU doesn't sign a GOR extension. But I don't have much hope there either since schools like Kansas, ISU, OSU, KSU will sign a GOR extension in a New York minute. Texas may too since the LHN still has another 10 years on it's contract. If they do, then Boren will probably fall in line with everybody else. The way it's looking, after the dust clears they should just rename the conference The Big Fucking Deal

Heard the KU, ISU, KSU will only agree to expansion if the GoR is extended. Guess they are pretty much saying that without the assurance of the GoR keeping OU and UT in the fold, the conference would just evaporate. Which it would do within a years time.

If Houston gets in and keeps Tom Herman as HC, they'll immediately become a top 10 team consistently. There is so much talent in that Houston, Beaumont area that its the equivalent of the Los Angeles/So Cal area.

 

[GoSooners]

Heard the KU, ISU, KSU will only agree to expansion if the GoR is extended. Guess they are pretty much saying that without the assurance of the GoR keeping OU and UT in the fold, the conference would just evaporate. Which it would do within a years time.

If Houston gets in and keeps Tom Herman as HC, they'll immediately become a top 10 team consistently. There is so much talent in that Houston, Beaumont area that its the equivalent of the Los Angeles/So Cal area.

I don't see any reason why a school can't be pro-expansion and be anti-GOR extension. The two shouldn't be mutually exclusive. Like I said, these other schools will sign a GOR in a second. I think they're talking out their asses by making it some kind of ultimatum. Schools like ISU, KSU etc. are most likely fucked if the conference blows up. OU and Texas both have options. I think it would be a huge mistake for Boren and the BOR to extend the GOR beyond 2025. None of us know what football is going to look like 10 years from now. OU needs to keep their options open when that GOR expires. I think they'll end up regretting it if they sign it...WinOne, I'll believe Houston will become a national power when I see it. It still takes money and a dedicated AD and athletic dept. to even get your foot in the door with the bluebloods. And Houston will still have plenty of competition with Texas A&M, LSU etc. for recruits. Plus where is the big money going to come from to get this done? ESPN won't give the conference more than $80 million max for a 4 team expansion. Another reason why OU shouldn't sign anything that is going to commit them to this sinking ship any longer than they have to. The truth of the matter when it comes to expansion is the Big 12 will be getting four second rate Power 5 conference teams, with the exception of maybe BYU if they go after them. And there will be no history between any of the schools in the Big 12 and these new schools. Not exactly a hotbed for ESPN/Fox programming. So in many ways I can't blame them for not being enthusiastic about Big 12 expansion...

 

[rolltide]

I really don't get the pimping of Houston. I can certainly see what Houston gets out of a B12 invite but what is the B12 getting? They already have the TV market (10th largest in USA) and the recruiting area so what is it exactly that is so attractive for the conference?

Houston stadium capacity would be the smallest in Big 12, hoops program has made 1 NCAA tourney in 25 years, they aren't an AAU member, 15-year avg recruiting ranking is 73rd, and the school's annual endowment is outside the top 100 in the country. uh, Yippee!?!?

They have a large enrollment number but that's about it. if you want big enrollment go get a larger school like UCF which has better facilities and opens up the 19th largest TV market and Florida recruiting.

I don't see what you guys are getting excited about with Houston. There's just not much there when using the definition of expansion. Simply put, adding Houston expands nothing for the B12

 

[sdf]

They already have the TV market (10th largest in USA) and the recruiting area so what is it exactly that is so attractive for the conference?

They dont have a corner on that TV market any longer and LSU/TAMU are having more pull here than in years past.
It's basically to keep the Houston market as it was.
Plus the Texas gubner is being all demanding about it and it's always super great when politics get involved.

Expansion is supposed to happen this month to give the teams the proper 12 months to bail on their current conference. I suspect
Houston (good football team, big market)
Cincy and Memphis (good foots and hoops)
and then one other team. BYU offers up their own network and lots of viewers but also has their downside which have been well documented. Maybe they'll be #4.


No big splash team but it was going to be hard to pull any such great teams from their current conferences anyway. Perhaps an expansion to 16 teams down the road will draw some bigger names.....

 

[RunLeeRun]

8 programs want whoever Texas says fits so long as that staves off mid-major status. I doubt anybody really wants another state of Texas program to compete for the top recruits. Texas does want Houston for a completely different end game, as pointed out earlier. Houston was on nobody's radar, and then the top longhorn brass all sent out tweets within an hour promoting the selection. That tells a guy everything. And don't be surprised, now that Ma Texas is answering the door with expansion pie, that Pa might excuse himself and slip out the back door looking for a better time.

 

[rolltide]

ESPN and Fox staged an extraordinary intervention in Big 12 expansion, going public with their displeasure over the potential addition of teams in the conference. It was a calculated Monday morning public attack on the Big 12's plans to expand, the likes of which we have never before seen.

"In this latest round of expansion, network executives say the Big 12 is putting the conference's financial gain ahead of its quality. ESPN and Fox concede that the conference's expansion plans would increase game inventory, but the quality of teams coming from outside of the power five would not enhance the Big 12 to warrant the aggressive rights-fee increases."

Whereas the SEC, Big Ten, ACC and Pac 12 all expanded to further conference network ambitions and strengthen the overall conference -- that is, every team, new members and old members alike, would make more money through expansion -- the Big 12's expansion rationale is simple -- sell Big 12 membership to desperate schools and have the ten existing schools pocket the added TV money owed under the contract.

That's a desperate strategy because a newly formatted Big 12 with 12, 14 or even more members isn't worth any more money to the TV partners. Fox and ESPN's ratings won't increase, there's no TV network lurking here to unlock new value, this is just an attempt to pocket more money between now and 2024-25, when the Big 12's existing TV contract ends.

full article at http://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn-and-fox-angry-with-big-12-expansion-080116

 

[RunLeeRun]

Ouch

 

[GoSooners]

I have no idea how credible this writer is, but he tells a different viewpoint about expansion. What it still probably comes down to for Fox is they want to see expansion, but probably just don't want to pay for it...I'll believe it when I see it. ESPN is having some financial problems by overextending themselves with the NFL and the LHN they won't gamble on anything at this point...



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FOX Continues Support for Big 12 Expansion with G5 Teams



Posted by C. Austin Cox on Tuesday, 02 August 2016 in Big 12 Conference Blog

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There was recently an article from the Sports Business Daily in which the authors claimed that both FOX and ESPN were "pushing back" against the Big 12 in regards to expansion. The article claimed that the two major sports networks felt that adding teams from the Group of Five would dilute the product the conference was putting out.
This could not be further from the truth.
FOX has been one of the leading proponents of Big 12 expansion over the last year as the network tries to get more college sports to air across its family of channels. This has been discussed repeatedly in the past, because FOX Sports only has the tier 1 TV rights to the Big 12 and Pac-12. Meanwhile, ESPN has tier 1 rights to the SEC, ACC, partial Big Ten, BYU, The American and many others.
This means that the only football program east of the Mississippi under contract with FOX for tier 1 television rights is West Virginia. FOX wants more product to air in the Eastern time zone. The network wants more product to air, period. The other option is to pay ESPN for content to air and no business wants to pay its competitor for their product.
ESPN has had some issues with Big 12 expansion, but that is mostly due to the targets the Big 12 wants. The league has had discussions with and about Cincinnati and Memphis for months, in addition to Houston, UConn, BYU and others. The first four schools listed are all in the American Athletic Conference, which is under contract with ESPN. BYU is also tied to ESPN through a contract to air home games in Provo. Colorado State is the only team that the Big 12 has seriously considered and isn't tied directly to ESPN.
So the truth is that yes, ESPN would like the Big 12 to avoid poaching its hottest Group of Five property - the AAC - or take away BYU, which has a buyout clause in case a Power Five comes knocking. However, FOX wants, needs and is driving this round of expansion in order to compete with ESPN and avoid continually paying its competitor for content to air.
We have all been there on a Saturday afternoon, flipping through the channels and seen six different football games airing across ESPN, ABC, CBS and their family of networks while Fox Sports 1 airs an MMA repeat. That is what FOX wants to avoid.
The Big 12 is not in a position to poach teams from a Power Five conference. The Pac-12 is under contract with FOX, which means the league would be biting the hand that feeds if it looked west. The ACC has a new grant of rights that puts all of its schools off limits and the idea of the Big 12 luring a Big Ten or SEC team away is honestly just laughable.
The only option is to poach teams from the Group of Five. FOX wants the Big 12 to do it for content and the league wants to do it so it can survive. It really is just that simple.



http://www.bcsnn.com/big-xii/9221-fox-continues-support-for-big-12-expansion-with-g5-teams.html

 

[Conan]

I think the lack of quality in an expansion scenario has been slightly overstated.
I believe that BYU and Houston both have their valid selling points. What the B-12
really needs is for FOX to jump into the game.

 

[WinOne]

They dont have a corner on that TV market any longer and LSU/TAMU are having more pull here than in years past.
It's basically to keep the Houston market as it was.
Plus the Texas gubner is being all demanding about it and it's always super great when politics get involved.

Expansion is supposed to happen this month to give the teams the proper 12 months to bail on their current conference. I suspect
Houston (good football team, big market)
Cincy and Memphis (good foots and hoops)
and then one other team. BYU offers up their own network and lots of viewers but also has their downside which have been well documented. Maybe they'll be #4.


No big splash team but it was going to be hard to pull any such great teams from their current conferences anyway. Perhaps an expansion to 16 teams down the road will draw some bigger names.....

Agreed. I still want to see if it was a ploy to get their network.

 

[sdf]

E but the quality of teams coming from outside of the power five would not enhance the Big 12 to warrant the aggressive rights-fee increases."

QUALITY? because adding football powerhouses like Rutgers, Maryland, Syracuse, Colorado, Nebraska (sorry, but they have been mediocre for years much like Texas)...etc for other Power5 conferences was a huge boost in QUALITY? No. No and No.

It's because they offered up a different market and more TVs.

And getting a Houston market would help ESPN/Fox. Much more than, say, Ames or Manhattan, KS.

 

[rolltide]

QUALITY? because adding football powerhouses like Rutgers, Maryland, Syracuse, Colorado, Nebraska (sorry, but they have been mediocre for years much like Texas)...etc for other Power5 conferences was a huge boost in QUALITY? No. No and No.

It's because they offered up a different market and more TVs.

And getting a Houston market would help ESPN/Fox. Much more than, say, Ames or Manhattan, KS.

read the whole article(s). it fully explains the financials behind their use of the word quality which, of course, has more to do with the W/L of a football program and gives the counterpoint to the terrible ROI ESPN would experience if they were tossing in another $20/m year per team for this shit product

keep in mind ESPN already have deals with AAC which includes Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati plus they have an 8-year deal already in place with BYU to broadcast all home games. so when you say "offered up a different market and more TVs" that is not true for the actual company footing the bill. They already have those markets signed to long-term deals

 

[Conan]

ESPN and Fox staged an extraordinary intervention in Big 12 expansion, going public with their displeasure over the potential addition of teams in the conference. It was a calculated Monday morning public attack on the Big 12's plans to expand, the likes of which we have never before seen.

"In this latest round of expansion, network executives say the Big 12 is putting the conference's financial gain ahead of its quality. ESPN and Fox concede that the conference's expansion plans would increase game inventory, but the quality of teams coming from outside of the power five would not enhance the Big 12 to warrant the aggressive rights-fee increases."

Whereas the SEC, Big Ten, ACC and Pac 12 all expanded to further conference network ambitions and strengthen the overall conference -- that is, every team, new members and old members alike, would make more money through expansion -- the Big 12's expansion rationale is simple -- sell Big 12 membership to desperate schools and have the ten existing schools pocket the added TV money owed under the contract.

That's a desperate strategy because a newly formatted Big 12 with 12, 14 or even more members isn't worth any more money to the TV partners. Fox and ESPN's ratings won't increase, there's no TV network lurking here to unlock new value, this is just an attempt to pocket more money between now and 2024-25, when the Big 12's existing TV contract ends.

full article at http://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn-and-fox-angry-with-big-12-expansion-080116

It sounds to me like Texas had a hand in this.

 

[WinOne]

read the whole article(s). it fully explains the financials behind their use of the word quality which, of course, has more to do with the W/L of a football program and gives the counterpoint to the terrible ROI ESPN would experience if they were tossing in another $20/m year per team for this shit product

keep in mind ESPN already have deals with AAC which includes Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati plus they have an 8-year deal already in place with BYU to broadcast all home games. so when you say "offered up a different market and more TVs" that is not true for the actual company footing the bill. They already have those markets signed to long-term deals

What ESPN does not like is the fact that B12 would be taking teams away from their existing network partners as you indicated. Additionally, when the B12 lost CU/NEBR/MIZZOU/A&M, Fox/ESPN did not decrease the payout to the league. They kept it where is was. They could have severely decreased the payout but they thought was if they did that, OU/OSU would surely bolt should the PAC12/B10/SEC come knocking. It would have meant the conference losing out on millions. If they expand, the lawyers are going to get involved which might bring the legality of the GoR's into play.

 

[rolltide]

[h=1]Big 12 to interview 17 schools about expansion, sources say[/h]
Whenever the Big 12 makes a decision on expansion, the league certainly will have done its due diligence.
Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby will conduct video conferences with 17 schools that have contacted the league about being considered as expansion candidates, sources told ESPN.
Sources also said it's "becoming less and less likely" that the league will expand to 14 teams. The most likely scenario is that the Big 12 will stay at 10 teams or only add two schools for a 12-team league with two six-team divisions, sources said.
Last month, Bowlsby and Oklahoma president David Boren said Bowlsby would be in touch with the schools that initially contacted the Big 12. The league said it hopes to make a decision on expansion by the Big 12's regularly scheduled board of directors meeting in October.
Among the 17 schools that will make their presentations to the Big 12 areCincinnati, Houston, BYU, South Florida, UCF, UConn, Memphis, Colorado State, Boise State, Tulane, Temple, East Carolina, SMU, New Mexico, Northern Illinois and San Diego State sources said.

 

[GoSooners]

Big 12 to interview 17 schools about expansion, sources say


Whenever the Big 12 makes a decision on expansion, the league certainly will have done its due diligence.
Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby will conduct video conferences with 17 schools that have contacted the league about being considered as expansion candidates, sources told ESPN.
Sources also said it's "becoming less and less likely" that the league will expand to 14 teams. The most likely scenario is that the Big 12 will stay at 10 teams or only add two schools for a 12-team league with two six-team divisions, sources said.
Last month, Bowlsby and Oklahoma president David Boren said Bowlsby would be in touch with the schools that initially contacted the Big 12. The league said it hopes to make a decision on expansion by the Big 12's regularly scheduled board of directors meeting in October.
Among the 17 schools that will make their presentations to the Big 12 areCincinnati, Houston, BYU, South Florida, UCF, UConn, Memphis, Colorado State, Boise State, Tulane, Temple, East Carolina, SMU, New Mexico, Northern Illinois and San Diego State sources said.

The Big XII/Big Sky/WAC/MAC/Pattywack

 

[WinOne]

There's not 4 quality teams out there and the Big12 wants to interview 17? Additionally, they have current teams that will not vote to bring new teams in without extending the GoR, which it sounds like Texas and OU may not want to do (so they have options in 2024/2025). I cant believe they would look to expand by more than 2, maybe 4. They'd be able to get more inventory, however if they can't get a network or additional revenue it just means they will be paying current members more than the newly added members. Granted, they newly added members would probably be getting more than they currently are receiving. But interviewing 17 teams makes absolutely no sense at all.
Maybe they will adopt the rules of the Premier League and relegate teams that dont finish in the upper half of the division.