I can NO longer support President Bush.

outandup · Jul 13, 2003

clintoon bombed iraq. bombed bosnia and was a complete failure in somalia. put down the clintoon coolaid.

clintoon will no doubt go down as one of the worse US presidents ever. i still can't believe he gave the NKs 4 BILLION and NUKE LWR, breaking with 10 previous US presidents. he has proped up the NKs and today we see what he left us with.

Even more criminal than what he did for NK was selling the NUKE sat technology to COMMUNIST CHINA. He should be in prison for that alone.

Phaedrus · Jul 13, 2003

Hey out, have you ever seen the photo op pictures from when Clinton "reconciled" with Vietnam? John McCain is in the background, with this smile on his face that says, "Just beneath this smile I'm thinking about killing everybody on this stage, including that fvcking draft-dodging hick who was smoking weed back home while I was getting beat with a tire iron and sleeping in a tiger cage and living off of grub-infested rice." It's the most beautiful smile I think I've ever seen.

I seriously wish Senator McCain had not dropped out of the Republican race in 2000. I understand his motivations, but the GOP has given him the shaft on so many issues, they don't deserve a man of his caliber anyway. As I said in another thread, I wish McCain and Ron Paul would run together as independents in '04.

Phaedrus

JohnnyDetroit · Jul 13, 2003

outandup,

i meant my party. libertarians.

radiofreecostarica · Jul 14, 2003

When their society faltered or crises emerged, the Aztecs waged guerra florida (flowery war) to acquire more slaves/captives. These captives were used—in many cases—for human sacrifice to appease their gods so that they rain blessings down on the empire (i.e., an end to drought, a fruitful harvest, etcetera.)

In the United States when we have a crisis we wage retaliatory warfare—the preemptive strike—to “overthrow dictators” and secure our interests, be they oil, land (i.e., manifest destiny), or regional security. We sacrifice our soldiers in these wars to “make the world a better place” under the assumption that those we combat are always “evil” and we are always “good”.

Tell me, how do these two scenarios differ?

outandup · Jul 14, 2003

The oil reason is a lame excuse for going to war.

Why didn't we just take the Kuwaiti and Iraqi oil in 1991?

Why did Clintoon bomb iraq in 1998, was it for the OIL? Clintoon said it was because of the WMD.

radiofreecostarica · Jul 14, 2003

What would you say WAS the excuse for going to war this time around?

outandup · Jul 14, 2003

I'll play this little game with you, but you should answer my questions first.

1. Why didn't the US take ALL the oil in 1991 and be done with?

2. Why did clintoon bomb Iraq in 1998?

outandup · Jul 14, 2003

it's sickening. sad that we not have one party the republicrats.

handsout runamock in this country.

northstars · Jul 15, 2003

1. your right it's not about the oil, that is just a spoil of war for these insane neocons.

2. why did clinton bomb iraq? because the israeli's told him to.

there is a mountain of evidence fingering the mossad and and rogue elements of the bush administration/cia/fbi as the true culprits behind 9/11. why don't you follow that story.

earlier in the thread you stated we voted in republican prez,senate and house. that couldn't be further from the truth. not only did the supreme court install bush but florida (jeb) blocked 90,000 democrats from voting by falsely claimig they were felons. now there is plenty of evidence that the 2002 elections were fixed via computer voting. all 3 computer voting software companies are owned by high ranking republicans and/or repulican donors. check out rense.com for truthful news on today's world situation. all the news on television is corporate pro-likud party trash.

outandup · Jul 15, 2003

no one word of what you posted has a bit of truth to it or it would be all over ABC, NBC, CBS & CNN.

try again.

outandup · Jul 15, 2003

it to show Gore won the media would be running it. it just didn't happen.

radiofreecostarica · Jul 15, 2003

out,

never said it was about oil..hence, "be they.." indicating, uncertainty regarding the casus belli in this case.

In fact, we would be better off declaring selfishness as a reason for the slaughter of innocents rather than the bullshit mockery of humanitarian reasons for invasion.

"Democracy in Iraq/Afghanistan" etc

radiofreecostarica · Jul 15, 2003

phaedrus,

i'd like to see that picture...very much, in fact.

Phaedrus · Jul 15, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>no one word of what you posted has a bit of truth to it or it would be all over ABC, NBC, CBS & CNN.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Out, Rense.com has featured a great many stories that did not become a part of mainstream news until months after they were published there, if ever. That doesn't mean I believe every word published by them, but the fact that a mainstream media service hasn't or won't put out a given story is about as sorry a barometer of truth as I've seen.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i'd like to see that picture...very much, in fact.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't find it anywhere nw, but my father (another big McCain follower) had it as his desktop wallpaper for a while ... I e-mailed hm to see if he maybe still had it. It was seven years ago, so difficult to find archived news w/photos of course.

Phaedrus

northstars · Jul 15, 2003

you live in a dream world, or should i say a nightmare world. don't you ever question things? how could 4 planes fly into buildings not all at once, which may have been plausible, but one every 45 minutes without our military intercepting them? when payne stewarts plane quit responding we had 2 f-16's flying next to him in 15 minutes. how about the story of insider trading on these put options on american and united airlies and various other businesses that was all over the media 2 days after 9/11. all the commontators were outraged that this monster osama had profited on these attacks. suddenly the story completely disappeared and it hasn't been spoken about since. well it's because they followed the money to find out who had done it, who had the prior knowledge, and it led back to former cia bigwig, buzzy krongaard and his bank. look it up. that is just one of hundreds of stories that just doesn't add up about 9-11. our corporate tv media has become the official mouthpiece for the bush administration. you should read rush limbaugh is a bigfat idiot and fortunate son the gw bush story there are hundreds of books out there that prove how these clowns just completely fabricate stories and the media gives them a free pass. good luck

KMAN · Jul 16, 2003

outandup - Did you see where some millitants killed an Iraqi mayor and his 8 year old son today? Could you imagine if it was the US who killed this 8 year old. There would be 4-5 topics started by libs about how horrible the US is and how we are baby killers. But since it was a Saddam millitant it's no big deal.

KMAN

outandup · Jul 16, 2003

phaedrus,
a recount showing gore actually won would have been one of those stories that would be all over the news.

outandup · Jul 16, 2003

Ok northstar the jews somehow got the 19 arabs to crash the planes into the WTC. i'm with you. PLEASE.

outandup · Jul 16, 2003

KMAN, exactly.

we hear everyday that a US soldier is kill in iraq, not that they give a shit. no one ever mentions that iraq is safer than DC. no news reports on the great progress made by the US.

It took 7 years to stablize Japan and we still have troops there. Whe are still in Germany and Sk, when we talk of leaving they start kissing azz. Sk actually has a thriving economy thanks to the US, they'd be no better off than NK without the US.

If we can get the liberal media to lay off for a few months iraq looks like they may have a chance. if the negative story tellers keep it up then who knows.

kayaman+ · Jul 19, 2003

"Kaya can you ever be objective."

This coming from a Bush2 supporter. I've mentioned on several occasions that Clinton was no great guy, most of the time I refer to him for a basis of comparison. On the other hand you boldy support Bush2 and the current administration, what could be less objective.

"matter of fact all the recounts showed bush won. if there was a way to twist"

I think we've gone over this already, but ok. Hello?!?!?? Anybody in there??? Recounts don't matter! The issue is those whose efforts to vote were hindered by the Florida government. It doesn't matter how many times you count the votes if you don't have them all.

"no one ever mentions that iraq is safer than DC"
Anything to back this up? As bad as D.C. is this is very very hard to belive.

"If we can get the liberal media to lay off for a few months iraq looks like they may have a chance. if the negative story tellers keep it up then who knows."

Oh yes the entire future of Iraq lies in the hands of the U.S. media.