I am no longer in Brad Stevens' corner

[PatsFan1283]

No one saying his departure had anything to do with their issues now. More that people who thought Kemba was better than Kyrie are absolutely nuts. Kemba has spent his whole career putting up empty stats in Charlotte, and his stats were not even that impressive given the circumstances.

Now Kyrie himself is off his rocker, but he is one of the best finishing guards around the rim in league history, and is an incredible talent who has played well on the biggest stage.

This team was never going to make it past the conference finals in a weak with ECF with Tatum as your top option plus weak big men

You may want to read the thread, post #3 on down

But even if he is better than Kemba that is moot for the Celtics, he wasn't gonna be better than him for their team. Made complete sense to replace him with Kemba, you don't get to choose from every player in the league unfortunately. And when I said AD/Kawhi wanted to live on the beach, I didn't mean Revere Beach.....(you may not get that 1)

 

[Avocado33]

Touché. I only read Chop’s. And I agree about fit; neither were perfect — but you need that top end talent to go the distance in the NBA. Kemba is just not that

Kyrie is like that whirlwind fling you have with some really hot but toxic chick and you have a crazy fun but super unhealthy four months where the sex is great but like wow she's manipulative. And then Kemba gets to Boston and everyone is like, wow, this is so much better! Because Kemba is the average looking girl you rebound with after where it's vanilla as shit but she's a great cook and she's emotionally available and supportive and you're like, yeah, fuck Kyrie Irving.

And then a year later you're having sex once every six weeks and she seems annoyed by your presence and you're trapped in a loveless dead-end relationship and you remember the toxic chick and you're like, maybe that was kinda awesome...

I think the important thing about this analogy is that Kyrie is still the toxic chick. He's a lunatic/completely nuts (Kemba is a great leader and guy). But Kyrie is still better than a washed up tiny man who can't score

 

[Willie99]

You may want to read the thread, post #3 on down

But even if he is better than Kemba that is moot for the Celtics, he wasn't gonna be better than him for their team. Made complete sense to replace him with Kemba, you don't get to choose from every player in the league unfortunately. And when I said AD/Kawhi wanted to live on the beach, I didn't mean Revere Beach.....(you may not get that 1)

Kyrie was awful with the C's, he was also a malcontent with the Cavs. Given time, let's see if he becomes a malcontent with the Nets (history does repeat itself)

For the time being, I think playing with KD and the Beard, and having the Beard at the point, has kept him in line. Seemed like he expected a 21/22 year old Brown and a 20/21 year old Tatum to acquiesce to his system.

I think the departure of Big Al and Morris hurt them more. Although their young bigs like Robert Williams seem to be emerging, just not ready for prime time yet

As of this moment, Brown is 24 and Tatum is 23, still incredibly young.

 

[Avocado33]

I don’t think Kyrie was a malcontent with the Cavs. I can attest as a Cavs fan that we pretty much loved him all the way until he decided he wanted out. Even that was not that bad, since that whole thing happened after the season ended and was relatively quick. He definitely is still loved by Cavs fans, and his three-year stint with Lebron was successful. Doesn’t hurt that he won a championship and hit one of the most clutch shots in NBA history

I thought Kyrie honestly never got enough credit in Cleveland. For example worship Lebron’s chase down block, but not as much that 3 that Kyrie hit over Curry.

It seems like he snapped in Boston for some reason. Kyrie is probably meant to be an all time sidekick or a Co-star, not the veteran star of a young team.

 

[Avocado33]

As for the subject of the thread: Steven is a good coach, but the hype got out of control way too quickly because of some minimal, insignificant early success

 

[PatsFan1283]

Kyrie was awful with the C's, he was also a malcontent with the Cavs. Given time, let's see if he becomes a malcontent with the Nets (history does repeat itself)

For the time being, I think playing with KD and the Beard, and having the Beard at the point, has kept him in line. Seemed like he expected a 21/22 year old Brown and a 20/21 year old Tatum to acquiesce to his system.

I think the departure of Big Al and Morris hurt them more. Although their young bigs like Robert Williams seem to be emerging, just not ready for prime time yet

As of this moment, Brown is 24 and Tatum is 23, still incredibly young.

Agree, to the extent he's fine on BK it is because he's the 3rd best player on the team and it is pretty easy game when you're playing with 2 of the best players in the league. To the extent he was fine on the Cavs, he was playing with LeBron. Any team that he is on that isn't going to have the best players in the league and has legitimate expectations, he's probably going to implode/underwhelm.

C's w/ those moves I mostly just chalk up to bad timing though. Tough to keep a deep team, Horford was getting older and Phi paid him a ton of $. Morris probably didn't wanna comeback on a team with Tatum/Brown/Smart/Hayward as his minutes wouldn't be guaranteed, he also got paid a good amount this past summer.

Hayward when he signed w/ the C's, Brown played 1yr and Tatum was coming into his rookie year. As those guys emerged, his role got smaller, doubt he had much interest in being the 4th guy on a team. And with him as well, Charlotte paid him a ton of money. Rozier as well was very solid in '18, he probably fits the team better than Kemba right now but no one would've preferred to go that route after '19.

 

[Knightrofins]

Kyrie was awful with the C's, he was also a malcontent with the Cavs. Given time, let's see if he becomes a malcontent with the Nets (history does repeat itself)

For the time being, I think playing with KD and the Beard, and having the Beard at the point, has kept him in line. Seemed like he expected a 21/22 year old Brown and a 20/21 year old Tatum to acquiesce to his system.

I think the departure of Big Al and Morris hurt them more. Although their young bigs like Robert Williams seem to be emerging, just not ready for prime time yet

As of this moment, Brown is 24 and Tatum is 23, still incredibly young.

For some odd reason, Kyrie and Blake Griffin are very good friends.

One of the main reasons Blake (and his shell) decided to sign with the nets.

I'm baffled why the C's are so bad this season. They had a better team than the HEAT when they lost in the ECF last year

 

[Ladeda]

Great Post Patsfan!
Pretty spot on.

Just goes to show you how fleeting success can be in the NBA and why a teams "window" is so important. Go back a few years, the Celtics seemed like a lock to be a title contender for years. Great GM, great young coach. Really good team with young stars on the rise, lots of valuable draft capital, cap space to spend. Etc Etc.

Now without any devastating injuries and only one major mistake (Kyrie) they have regressed to just another playoff team with no real shot at the title. Almost wonder how the heck that happened.

Seems you need a really transendent player or two and fill in the team around them perfectly and sometimes that is only good for a few years, for example Lebron in Miami and Cleveland-pt2 .

 

[Knightrofins]

Agree, to the extent he's fine on BK it is because he's the 3rd best player on the team and it is pretty easy game when you're playing with 2 of the best players in the league. To the extent he was fine on the Cavs, he was playing with LeBron. Any team that he is on that isn't going to have the best players in the league and has legitimate expectations, he's probably going to implode/underwhelm.

C's w/ those moves I mostly just chalk up to bad timing though. Tough to keep a deep team, Horford was getting older and Phi paid him a ton of $. Morris probably didn't wanna comeback on a team with Tatum/Brown/Smart/Hayward as his minutes wouldn't be guaranteed, he also got paid a good amount this past summer.

Hayward when he signed w/ the C's, Brown played 1yr and Tatum was coming into his rookie year. As those guys emerged, his role got smaller, doubt he had much interest in being the 4th guy on a team. And with him as well, Charlotte paid him a ton of money. Rozier as well was very solid in '18, he probably fits the team better than Kemba right now but no one would've preferred to go that route after '19.

Hayward didnt live up to his overpriced contract.

Also didnt help that his leg almost fell off within the first 20 minutes of his first game

The C's have made 2 good moves.

1) When they traded KG and Pierce so the Russian Billionaire could build a team to compete with the HEAT buy giving up the future for 2 aging veterans
2) When Philly traded up with them to draft Fultz and the C's wend down to 3 to get either Brown or Tatum.

What other great moves have the C's made? They never landed a TOP free agent (Hayward was one of the best in his F/A class but he's not going to be the best player on an NBA champion). I remember when they wanted to trade their 4 first round picks a few years ago to the HEAT but the Heat wanted Winslow instead. The C's did crap with those picks

Other than Brown and Tatum, the C's havent landed a stud first rd pick

Stevens is a great coach and would get top dollar if we went back to NCAA.

Maybe Ainge needs to go???

 

[Dr.Love]

So this is all kyrie fault ?

Pretty much.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Hayward didnt live up to his overpriced contract.

Also didnt help that his leg almost fell off within the first 20 minutes of his first game

The C's have made 2 good moves.

1) When they traded KG and Pierce so the Russian Billionaire could build a team to compete with the HEAT buy giving up the future for 2 aging veterans
2) When Philly traded up with them to draft Fultz and the C's wend down to 3 to get either Brown or Tatum.

What other great moves have the C's made? They never landed a TOP free agent (Hayward was one of the best in his F/A class but he's not going to be the best player on an NBA champion). I remember when they wanted to trade their 4 first round picks a few years ago to the HEAT but the Heat wanted Winslow instead. The C's did crap with those picks

Other than Brown and Tatum, the C's havent landed a stud first rd pick

Stevens is a great coach and would get top dollar if we went back to NCAA.

Maybe Ainge needs to go???

Yeah, I dunno where to go with this. Sounds like you’re basically saying because the Celts couldn’t get LeBron that Ainge never made any good moves.

He made tons of +EV decisions in regards to trades/draft picks, I’ve mentioned many in the thread. You will have to look the rest up.

Im gonna get some of y’all ESPN rehab if they come out with that shit. I’ll even pay for it.

 

[Knightrofins]

Yeah, I dunno where to go with this. Sounds like you’re basically saying because the Celts couldn’t get LeBron that Ainge never made any good moves.

He made tons of +EV decisions in regards to trades/draft picks, I’ve mentioned many in the thread. You will have to look the rest up.

Im gonna get some of y’all ESPN rehab if they come out with that shit. I’ll even pay for it.

How did I say that Ainge never made any good moves?

Didnt i mention the Brooklyn trade and the Philly trade? Hiring Stevens was also a good move as well

And yes, trading for KG Allen were great moves as well but i was referring to the last 10 years

Tristan Thompson doesnt raise fear in my eyes. He was able to sign a big deal with Lebron's Cavs as Rich Paul is his agent
Kemba is good but he's not a 3rd best player on a championship team (sorry Willie)

Now Tacko Fall is my guy!! Him I root for

 

[PatsFan1283]

I wasn’t crazy about kemba or Hayward signings (I said I thought Hayward would probably leave when his deal is up now that brown/Tatum passed him in a thread a few years ago) but for the most part, at the time of those moves that is kinda what you do. Get the best player possible to go to your team and figure it out. O

Al Horford very good signing, drafting Bradley and flipping him for Morris, drafting Rozier, getting crowder back in the rondo deal, drafting smart, getting IT for phx, getting Kyrie for crowder/pick/IT was sick value (not every deal works out but you weaken your main comp in the East with that ripoff as well)....Like you said brown/Tatum picks great picks (Tatum in particular there were tons of busts around when he got picked)

I read your post quickly on my phone so kinda conflated great/good immediately.

Yes, he hasn’t hit the big home run w/ all of these acquisitions but when I analyze it in retrospect, I’m just not sure it was out there.

Also, like I said in previous post, a lot of the diamond in the rough moves he made have dried up. Thus why celts probably had 1 of the worst benches and supporting casts in the league this year. Should he go? Maybe, he’s like 70.

 

[Knightrofins]

I wasn’t crazy about kemba or Hayward signings (I said I thought Hayward would probably leave when his deal is up now that brown/Tatum passed him in a thread a few years ago) but for the most part, at the time of those moves that is kinda what you do. Get the best player possible to go to your team and figure it out. O

Al Horford very good signing, drafting Bradley and flipping him for Morris, drafting Rozier, getting crowder back in the rondo deal, drafting smart, getting IT for phx, getting Kyrie for crowder/pick/IT was sick value (not every deal works out but you weaken your main comp in the East with that ripoff as well)....Like you said brown/Tatum picks great picks (Tatum in particular there were tons of busts around when he got picked)

I read your post quickly on my phone so kinda conflated great/good immediately.

Yes, he hasn’t hit the big home run w/ all of these acquisitions but when I analyze it in retrospect, I’m just not sure it was out there.

Also, like I said in the post you quoted, a lot of the diamond in the rough moves he made have dried up. Thus why celts probably had 1 of the worst benches and supporting casts in the league this year. Should he go? Maybe, he’s like 70.

I have always been a fan of Horford. One of those players that has "meh" for stats but if you watch him play, you know that he's awesome. I'm curious to see when its all said and done, where he is when it comes time for HOF voting.

The IT for Kyree trade was great (at the time) as you sold IT high for a top young player. Kyree being a headcase screwed up the C's

Those HEAT/celts playoff battles were pretty intense a few years back. KG and Pierce still hate Lebron and WAde

 

[PatsFan1283]

Needed the 3rd pick one year later to get the Slovenian assassin, that was probably the best chance to get over the top. Must be nice to run like Mark Cuban.

As far as the subject of the thread goes, Stevens. I think he’s a fine coach but he was absolutely dancing circles around these other coaches 3-5 years ago. Coaching matters but just tough to smash it like that for a long period, it isn’t like being Tom Brady or LeBron James where your skill goes away when it finally diminishes. In pro sports, teams basically have equal financial resources for the most part so a lot of the edges you have kinda regress or dry up over time. Every team shoots tons of 3s and runs tons of pick and roll now. Every team has analytics departments a mile long, international scouting (an edge the spurs used to have but Pop no longer enjoys thus he hates America instead) and I think a lot of the stuff Stevens was early on have just gone away. The low hanging fruit of the early pace/space era.

If Stevens time is up then it’s up, but I doubt you get any type of improvement from him.

 

[Avocado33]

I don't get how Celtics fans have been able to tolerate having Marcus Smart on this roster for so long. I remember his poor shooting basically giving LeBron that 4th finals berth in 2018 ECF. That was awesome as a Cavs fan -- our defensive strategy being to basically just dare Smart to shoot open 3's all series long

Whatever he brings defensively is nullified by the fact that he is such a liability offensively. Under 40% shooting is pretty unacceptable for a guy who gets the minutes he does

 

[festeringZit]

Cs playing a lot better tonight. I almost turned it off when they were down 19-4 early.

 

[Knightrofins]

Danny Ainge stepping down

Brad Stevens moving into full-time front office role

 

[festeringZit]

Danny Ainge stepping down

Brad Stevens moving into full-time front office role

wow

 

[PatsFanatic]

Can’t see any reason this is good for the C’s.
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