After reading these posts i kind of feel like I am in the Twilight Zone. Are all of these people serious? Several of you guys really do need to lighten up. Maybe it is just the rumblings of men reeling from a bad weekend of gambling? I am not sure. All I know is that yes, at times these forums can be highly addictive, and i think i spend too much time reading a lot of shitty posts. However, the RX as well as gambling or even off-shore gambling are not the problem. Lack of moderation is the crux here. When I find myself bitter because I overbet my bankroll and got throttled, I can digress into tirades similar to what i have read above me. I begin to get philosophical and lack any objectivity about anything. I might say, "The offshore industry is why I am in this position." Or I may say that the forums are why I am so depressed. When I have time to sit down and really think about it, it is not the offshore gaming industry (even though i was an aces gold casualty.) I really should have known that NO JUICE may have been too good to be true. And I should have known that it was never the forums.
the real problem can be pinpointed by simply looking in the mirror. I know that when I start talking like these guys who are in an episode of the twilight zone that I am the one who is at fault. You guys should try and be alot more disciplined with your gambling and only use the forums to help you. Don't let the forum addiction ruin your social or family life. if you are in the forums too much, get out. Only use them when you are seeking important info. I.e. Where do i go for reduced juice? who has the best teaser rules? Why is neteller sticking it up my ass? How do i contact my senator to tell him that he is a rotten prick for voting against internet gambling? You get the picture. the offshore industry is a great way to wager overall, and certainly, used properly, the RX and its forums are a wonderful asset. I hope that some of my post helps, as I have only written this with good intentions in mind.
the real problem can be pinpointed by simply looking in the mirror. I know that when I start talking like these guys who are in an episode of the twilight zone that I am the one who is at fault. You guys should try and be alot more disciplined with your gambling and only use the forums to help you. Don't let the forum addiction ruin your social or family life. if you are in the forums too much, get out. Only use them when you are seeking important info. I.e. Where do i go for reduced juice? who has the best teaser rules? Why is neteller sticking it up my ass? How do i contact my senator to tell him that he is a rotten prick for voting against internet gambling? You get the picture. the offshore industry is a great way to wager overall, and certainly, used properly, the RX and its forums are a wonderful asset. I hope that some of my post helps, as I have only written this with good intentions in mind.
Teaser: no, that's not MY problem - been very successful doing what I do - no complaints whatsoever there.
But it's been building for a while, and the last 2 weeks of the circus occurring while GA and Blue Marlin went down has convinced me this is not where I want to be any longer.
There's a pond called CR and I think it's beginning to dry up around the edges, and I don't want to be one of the fish you find gasping for air in a mud puddle. I trust no authority offshore to tell the truth on any book, though a very few books I do consider 'safe' if that's possible. There are just too many agendas offshore to find out what the truth really is - and I'm not going to let my money be exposed to that any longer.
Watching the CR books completely ignore the question of valid and MEANINGFUL regulation (much less arbitration or escrow accounts) has convinced me that most of them really don't give a flying fvck - and why SHOULD they when they can pull disappearing acts like GA and Blue Marlin, without legal ACCOUNTABILITY??? How sweet is that racket, anyway??? The old Ponzi scheme, you just hope the money keeps coming in indefinitely - only you're not prepared when something happens. NOTHING will change in CR.
Consolidation IS coming, I just don't know how fast or how much - but I do know that when that U.S. bill ever passes, it will directly impact these books because a LOT of people will no longer bother with it - meaning those juicy, lovable and PROFITABLE squares. And a number of those small and mid-size books (what's mid-size these days, 100 active customers??) will go down like dominoes.
Besides, the books are becoming clone joints, incapable of making a number, which means you're inevitably driven to the book with the best vig and who pays. Consolidation by natural selection - Darwinism at its best.
So I'm simply reacting to natural selection - I'm adapting a behavior that will prevent me from getting suffocated in the pond.
But it's been building for a while, and the last 2 weeks of the circus occurring while GA and Blue Marlin went down has convinced me this is not where I want to be any longer.
There's a pond called CR and I think it's beginning to dry up around the edges, and I don't want to be one of the fish you find gasping for air in a mud puddle. I trust no authority offshore to tell the truth on any book, though a very few books I do consider 'safe' if that's possible. There are just too many agendas offshore to find out what the truth really is - and I'm not going to let my money be exposed to that any longer.
Watching the CR books completely ignore the question of valid and MEANINGFUL regulation (much less arbitration or escrow accounts) has convinced me that most of them really don't give a flying fvck - and why SHOULD they when they can pull disappearing acts like GA and Blue Marlin, without legal ACCOUNTABILITY??? How sweet is that racket, anyway??? The old Ponzi scheme, you just hope the money keeps coming in indefinitely - only you're not prepared when something happens. NOTHING will change in CR.
Consolidation IS coming, I just don't know how fast or how much - but I do know that when that U.S. bill ever passes, it will directly impact these books because a LOT of people will no longer bother with it - meaning those juicy, lovable and PROFITABLE squares. And a number of those small and mid-size books (what's mid-size these days, 100 active customers??) will go down like dominoes.
Besides, the books are becoming clone joints, incapable of making a number, which means you're inevitably driven to the book with the best vig and who pays. Consolidation by natural selection - Darwinism at its best.
So I'm simply reacting to natural selection - I'm adapting a behavior that will prevent me from getting suffocated in the pond.
Jazz, the points in your last post are well taken. i agree with several issues that you have addressed. My only point is this--what exactly are your options? If you choose to gamble, do you want to now go back 2 decades to a U.S. boiler room bookie who is only open for an hour and a half each day? do you want to call a local bookie who may be involved with organized crime and get caught on the periphery of a phone tap? I know people who have been followed after paying and collecting with a local bookies and been subjected to subsequent investigations. the bottom line is that even if the gov. bans i-net gambling, it will be harder to enforce than jaywalking. All I know is that off-shore books have forever changed the face of gaming. there is simply no turning back.
is not a panacea; lots of regulated books in Britain have gone down. That said, I still prefer to play in the UK rather than the Caribbean, because it is regulated. The word 'consolidation' has been tossed around for a couple of years, but it's more like a patient losing limbs than a consolidation which will occur. You need to find a limb that won't drop off due to a case of offshore leprosy
.
Conflating message board squabbling with the state of the industry is a bit of a stretch. If you have to play at 3rd world island nation books, do your own investigating; these 'watchdog' sites have NEVER been reliable, as they are in bed with the sites they are supposed to 'watch'. They generally will disclaim if pressured about this, stating that the watchdog concept is not one they subscribe to anyway, they are just here for information purposes, which means caveat emptor.
The reality is that any offshore gambling will always be a risk to the player, perhaps less of a risk in a regulated environment, but a risk nonetheless. Anyone can talk a good game and seem like they have it together--Camelot is a good example. Your only recourse is to educate yourself as much as possible, and play with books that have solid history and reputations, and hope for the best.
Waiting for Shrink, Russ and the gang to lead you to the promised land is like waiting for Donald Rumsfeld to lead you there; ain't gonna happen.
Conflating message board squabbling with the state of the industry is a bit of a stretch. If you have to play at 3rd world island nation books, do your own investigating; these 'watchdog' sites have NEVER been reliable, as they are in bed with the sites they are supposed to 'watch'. They generally will disclaim if pressured about this, stating that the watchdog concept is not one they subscribe to anyway, they are just here for information purposes, which means caveat emptor.
The reality is that any offshore gambling will always be a risk to the player, perhaps less of a risk in a regulated environment, but a risk nonetheless. Anyone can talk a good game and seem like they have it together--Camelot is a good example. Your only recourse is to educate yourself as much as possible, and play with books that have solid history and reputations, and hope for the best.
Waiting for Shrink, Russ and the gang to lead you to the promised land is like waiting for Donald Rumsfeld to lead you there; ain't gonna happen.
Teaser: I'm going to walk away from it completely - I did it in the past and I'm going to do it again. I have no interest in finding a local. If you recall what I do, which is now almost pure 'Jazz & Pancho' betting, you'll see why it will be easy for me to walk away THIS time.
Skyweasel: you're right, regulation is not a panacea - but I never said it was. Huge companies who are audited in the U.S. also fail and catch people completely by surprise, so I have no illusions about the regulation - my point, however, is that these people answer to NO ONE but themselves, and in this environment the best advice is as you said, education, solid history and reputation: but my point is that I think it's no longer going to really matter. The education is only as good as the teachers, and I see no one out there worthy of the label. And you're right - I'm not waiting for Shrink, Russ and the gang to lead me to the land of milk and honey and virgins, either, because by the time I'd get there all the virgins would have been sodomized.
Offshore has always had its risks - I'm saying I believe they are now accelerating with the pending legislation, the line-cloning leading to no reason to play at smaller books, and combined with the overall disgust I've developed at the constant bickering and bitch-slapping on these forums which supposedly represent something offshore (or at least talk a great game about it). Today is a perfect example of it - in trundles Russ and proceeds to spew more shit, against a book that no longer advertises with him. Advertising dollars is where loyalty invariably lies, and though I'm not placing the burden of ensuring that sportsbooks are viable businesses to play my money at onto the shoulders of Shrink and Russ and SBR and the rest, I'm saying that except for a very few books, I don't believe much of anything that I read about the other books.
So people will continue to do as they wish, I simply don't wish to continue playing in a game rigged so strongly against the players and one I think is going to see a really different landscape in the coming year.
Skyweasel: you're right, regulation is not a panacea - but I never said it was. Huge companies who are audited in the U.S. also fail and catch people completely by surprise, so I have no illusions about the regulation - my point, however, is that these people answer to NO ONE but themselves, and in this environment the best advice is as you said, education, solid history and reputation: but my point is that I think it's no longer going to really matter. The education is only as good as the teachers, and I see no one out there worthy of the label. And you're right - I'm not waiting for Shrink, Russ and the gang to lead me to the land of milk and honey and virgins, either, because by the time I'd get there all the virgins would have been sodomized.
Offshore has always had its risks - I'm saying I believe they are now accelerating with the pending legislation, the line-cloning leading to no reason to play at smaller books, and combined with the overall disgust I've developed at the constant bickering and bitch-slapping on these forums which supposedly represent something offshore (or at least talk a great game about it). Today is a perfect example of it - in trundles Russ and proceeds to spew more shit, against a book that no longer advertises with him. Advertising dollars is where loyalty invariably lies, and though I'm not placing the burden of ensuring that sportsbooks are viable businesses to play my money at onto the shoulders of Shrink and Russ and SBR and the rest, I'm saying that except for a very few books, I don't believe much of anything that I read about the other books.
So people will continue to do as they wish, I simply don't wish to continue playing in a game rigged so strongly against the players and one I think is going to see a really different landscape in the coming year.
The only alternatives I see in your case would be Vegas, or betting exchanges. Of course you know how people slag Vegas these days for low limits, gutless/faceless corporate booking, etc.
Exchanges I found hard to figure out, I did get the hang of it eventually using a freebie account from Tradesports, but I lost it all and never bothered again.
There's no risk, since you're playing against other individuals whose money is already posted up, but I'm not really a stock trading whiz which is who it seems geared for. The whole bid/ask scheme just always confused me, even when I used it for a long time. I don't want to jump in and out of a proposition, I just want to make a play when I think something is solid and wait for a result. Guess that makes me some kind of dinosaur, lol.
Exchanges I found hard to figure out, I did get the hang of it eventually using a freebie account from Tradesports, but I lost it all and never bothered again.
There's no risk, since you're playing against other individuals whose money is already posted up, but I'm not really a stock trading whiz which is who it seems geared for. The whole bid/ask scheme just always confused me, even when I used it for a long time. I don't want to jump in and out of a proposition, I just want to make a play when I think something is solid and wait for a result. Guess that makes me some kind of dinosaur, lol.
Jazz,
I have MANY of the exact same feelings as you do right now. The good informative post in these forums is becoming increasingly hard to find. The number of people you can trust in the offshore industry is next to nil. The smaller books are all just clones of each other. For middlers and scalpers like you and me, the good ole days are long over - especially if you've been banned from SIA.
For these reasons (and other reasons that are more personal), I too am thinking of leaving this business. I, on the other hand, completely disagree with you that what is needed is MORE REGULATION. I think quite the opposite. I mean even though there is little regulation offshore right now, we have much more regulation in the offshore industry today than we had TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO! You cannot deny that. Are things better NOW? Answer honestly.
Think about it, regulation comes with a price, and that is that innovation and variety are virtually squelched. Being the middler/scalper that you claim to be, how can that POSSIBLY be good for you. In addition, as I have stated in the past, regulation is done by governments - and governments NEVER look out for your best interests. NEVER! And your talking about 3rd world governments! Any chance of corruption there?? Hmmmm.
I'll keep saying it til I'm blue in the face, the solution must be a free market solution.
A competitive market of insurance companies just like in the "real world" is the ONLY thing that will work.
I have MANY of the exact same feelings as you do right now. The good informative post in these forums is becoming increasingly hard to find. The number of people you can trust in the offshore industry is next to nil. The smaller books are all just clones of each other. For middlers and scalpers like you and me, the good ole days are long over - especially if you've been banned from SIA.
For these reasons (and other reasons that are more personal), I too am thinking of leaving this business. I, on the other hand, completely disagree with you that what is needed is MORE REGULATION. I think quite the opposite. I mean even though there is little regulation offshore right now, we have much more regulation in the offshore industry today than we had TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO! You cannot deny that. Are things better NOW? Answer honestly.
Think about it, regulation comes with a price, and that is that innovation and variety are virtually squelched. Being the middler/scalper that you claim to be, how can that POSSIBLY be good for you. In addition, as I have stated in the past, regulation is done by governments - and governments NEVER look out for your best interests. NEVER! And your talking about 3rd world governments! Any chance of corruption there?? Hmmmm.
I'll keep saying it til I'm blue in the face, the solution must be a free market solution.
A competitive market of insurance companies just like in the "real world" is the ONLY thing that will work.
MD: I'll deny that there is more regulation in the CR books - and truthteller, yes, I did acknowledge there are a few books I'd 'trust' as far as trust goes, and Australian books like betaustralia would fall into that, also non-aussies like Pinnacle, Olympic, Bowman's. But MD, my point is where this is no regulation, there is increased risk of books doing the Blue Marlin shuffle - once Vegas got regulated they cleaned the mob out of the casinos - or would one rather the mob had stayed? Is the investor's money in a casino more or less secure now? If you argue that 'corporate mentality' has ruined the Vegas books, that's another argument for sure - but my point is that it's not DUE to regulation, it's due to the desire to make money. Same desire forcing the bastards to offer a 6/5 Blackjack game to fvck the tourists with. But where is it written that regulation forces books to offer identical business structures or lines??? Nowhere - but your point about 3rd world countries may have more weight concerning effective regulation - which is even more of a deterrent for me staying, right?
As far as my point about books (a lot of CR books) moving to clone joints, that had nothing to do with regulation which is non-existent in CR - that's happening for different reasons. The reason things aren't better right now have nothing to do with regulation elsewhere - it has to do with the natural progression of an infant industry, just like you saw in the wild days of the Internet fever. Man, I once used 2 discount 'coupons' at a new auto site and managed to save over $450 on a set of tires over the best price available locally - I miss those days. But what I believe is happening is that books like Blue Marlin, who could rely on the rapidly expanding customer base in the early days to fuel their business, no longer had the rapid influx of new customers and the business became much more difficult - and let's not forget the competition out there. This industry is slowly maturing, and as it does you will find that people who've been burned before will no longer fall for the '30-50%' bonuses of the old days, and take some site's word that a new book is good. As far as I'm concerned, and let's be honest: this industry wasn't set up to benefit EITHER of us - the inefficiencies in it are not a prerogative of ours to have forever. Just like a Wal-mart saves thousands of people a lot of money and sometimes small businesses go under due to it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Wal-mart - one might ask the small businesses where the hell is their 'right' to force people to pay more to them instead of Wal-mart so THEY can stay in business? Pinnacle is a driver out there, and you have seen more and more books go to reduced vig, which is good for the 'real' gambler, but there will be the inevitable thinning out of the herd and consolidation unavoidable.
As far as Vegas, I have no interest in moving there, I'm perfectly happy where I'm at now. Betting exchanges are always a possibility, but I really quite think a total break would be much more welcome to me. I never envisioned doing this forever, and actually not even this long, so it's been gravy for quite a while.
But apart from my betting practices, I honestly do see a worsening environment and I just don't want any part of it. I'd rather be fvcking, fishing and hunting, in that order.
As far as my point about books (a lot of CR books) moving to clone joints, that had nothing to do with regulation which is non-existent in CR - that's happening for different reasons. The reason things aren't better right now have nothing to do with regulation elsewhere - it has to do with the natural progression of an infant industry, just like you saw in the wild days of the Internet fever. Man, I once used 2 discount 'coupons' at a new auto site and managed to save over $450 on a set of tires over the best price available locally - I miss those days. But what I believe is happening is that books like Blue Marlin, who could rely on the rapidly expanding customer base in the early days to fuel their business, no longer had the rapid influx of new customers and the business became much more difficult - and let's not forget the competition out there. This industry is slowly maturing, and as it does you will find that people who've been burned before will no longer fall for the '30-50%' bonuses of the old days, and take some site's word that a new book is good. As far as I'm concerned, and let's be honest: this industry wasn't set up to benefit EITHER of us - the inefficiencies in it are not a prerogative of ours to have forever. Just like a Wal-mart saves thousands of people a lot of money and sometimes small businesses go under due to it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Wal-mart - one might ask the small businesses where the hell is their 'right' to force people to pay more to them instead of Wal-mart so THEY can stay in business? Pinnacle is a driver out there, and you have seen more and more books go to reduced vig, which is good for the 'real' gambler, but there will be the inevitable thinning out of the herd and consolidation unavoidable.
As far as Vegas, I have no interest in moving there, I'm perfectly happy where I'm at now. Betting exchanges are always a possibility, but I really quite think a total break would be much more welcome to me. I never envisioned doing this forever, and actually not even this long, so it's been gravy for quite a while.
But apart from my betting practices, I honestly do see a worsening environment and I just don't want any part of it. I'd rather be fvcking, fishing and hunting, in that order.
Hey Jazz, take a week and reconsider.
Look at the facts, how many books have you played at and how many have went bust?
I've signed up with over 80 in the last 3 years and only 1 has gone bust, Blue Marlin ( and who knows I may get bailed out by a quality book).
I always said that any bonuses I collected were a form of insurance against stiff jobs. The amount I've collected in bonuses over the last 3 years FAR exceeds what I may lose at Blu Marlin.
Think about it, do your locals pay bonuses? No.
So while you may be safe with a local (not 100 %) you have no cushion in the form of a bonus like you do offshore.
So the tradeoff with the offshores is you cant drive up to the house like you can with a local but you do have the bonus insurance.
So 1 in 80 is not bad, and I play at only the super safe shops now with 90 % of my bankroll, and the other 10 % is in pretty safe books.
I know it stings to get stuck at Blue Marlin but consider that consolidation will only make the strong books stronger.
Look at the facts, how many books have you played at and how many have went bust?
I've signed up with over 80 in the last 3 years and only 1 has gone bust, Blue Marlin ( and who knows I may get bailed out by a quality book).
I always said that any bonuses I collected were a form of insurance against stiff jobs. The amount I've collected in bonuses over the last 3 years FAR exceeds what I may lose at Blu Marlin.
Think about it, do your locals pay bonuses? No.
So while you may be safe with a local (not 100 %) you have no cushion in the form of a bonus like you do offshore.
So the tradeoff with the offshores is you cant drive up to the house like you can with a local but you do have the bonus insurance.
So 1 in 80 is not bad, and I play at only the super safe shops now with 90 % of my bankroll, and the other 10 % is in pretty safe books.
I know it stings to get stuck at Blue Marlin but consider that consolidation will only make the strong books stronger.
Naw, Pancho, that ain't the reason, I had little more than chicken feed there - notice I said 'had', because as far as I'm concerned it's gone and it was simply a cost of doing business. But I feel terrible for people like the guy who had put in $5,000 last week when Reggie and his partners knew for a fact they were going down - THAT'S not chicken feed!
No, as I've said, I've been thinking this way for weeks, far before the fish got eaten. I simply do not like where it's going, bonuses or no as insurance. I suppose I could always line up a couple of locals and middle the shit out of them vs. Pinnacle or Canbet just for laffs, but hell, one of them might just stiff me so why bother?
Nope, fvcking, fishing and hunting (well, drinking too) is what I'll be concentrating on.
No, as I've said, I've been thinking this way for weeks, far before the fish got eaten. I simply do not like where it's going, bonuses or no as insurance. I suppose I could always line up a couple of locals and middle the shit out of them vs. Pinnacle or Canbet just for laffs, but hell, one of them might just stiff me so why bother?
Nope, fvcking, fishing and hunting (well, drinking too) is what I'll be concentrating on.
awesome: see my reply in your topic, but bottom-line is that the greatest idea is useless if there lacks an interest by the CR books in looking out for anything but their own interests, EVEN IF THAT DOOMS THEM ALL eventually. That's not the way those owners think.
Pancho: yup, have managed to get some of that fun in already, I would just like more of it. And funny enough, I AM planning a 10-part doctorate-level thesis on that very subject, just so you'll pay me a 'hush fund' fee from your bonuses to keep from posting it
later - gotta run
Pancho: yup, have managed to get some of that fun in already, I would just like more of it. And funny enough, I AM planning a 10-part doctorate-level thesis on that very subject, just so you'll pay me a 'hush fund' fee from your bonuses to keep from posting it
later - gotta run
It doesn't bother me that a CRIS or GRANDE won't step up to bail out these joints that they view as Mickey Mouse. To me it doesn't reflect poorly on them in any way and certainly doesn't speak to their financial condition.
If I was running a business the right way, I sure as hell wouldn't be interested in bailing out some sucker down the road who ran his shop into the ground.
If a book like OLY or WWTS somehow got in trouble, I am sure they would be interested in helping out for the sake of the industry as a whole.
If I was running a business the right way, I sure as hell wouldn't be interested in bailing out some sucker down the road who ran his shop into the ground.
If a book like OLY or WWTS somehow got in trouble, I am sure they would be interested in helping out for the sake of the industry as a whole.
