"How anti-war demonstrations hurt the troops"

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June 6 ,2006

Currently deployed in Iraq, USMC Cpl. Anthony Ippoliti sent this letter to his hometown paper, The Ridgefield Press.
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I am fortunate enough to receive The Ridgefield Press every few weeks and enjoy keeping abreast of the local issues currently pressing in our small town. I am a U.S. Marine Infantryman currently serving in Fallujah, Iraq, and my mother usually includes The Press in the many care packages she sends me. Since we have very limited access to telephones, The Ridgefield Press is the primary means by which I receive local news. Almost every week, I open The Press and find an article or letter to the editors denouncing the coalition effort in Iraq. Invariably, the individuals behind these anti-war letters and rallies mask their political agendas by asserting that they "support the troops but not the war." People like Vince Giordano, Paul Sutherland and Anne Stubbs are pictured in the April 13 edition of The Press carrying a yellow-ribboned coffin and signs that say “Bring Them Home Now." They read off the names of the dead and claim to "show support for our troops" while urging lawmakers to “bring them home.” They believe that the U.S.-led coalition should never have entered Iraq and that the current effort is a never-ending quagmire that has made no progress. They believe that things are progressively getting worse and think that our forces should just pick up and leave.
They do all this under the pretense that they are supporting the troops. However, what they are really doing is using our lives and the issue of our safety and well-being as a means to achieve a political end.
***
My primary concern is the assertion that these individuals support the troops in Iraq but not our mission. It boggles my mind that this logic is actually utilized on a large scale.
Supporting the troops but not the war is like saying that you support filmmakers but not making films. One cannot claim to support an individual in a given profession but not support what the said profession entails. This is essentially a slap in the face to those in the service.
How protesting the job we are doing in Iraq while demanding our withdrawal constitutes supporting us is beyond me.
Furthermore, I am particularly interested in how these people support us, specifically. I have never once received a letter from an individual who claims to "support the troops, not the war." Not a single Marine I know has received anything that could be considered remotely supportive from any of these people or the groups they represent. We have received phone cards, hygiene supplies, food, etc. from members of state and local government, radio stations, schools, private individuals and organizations, but never once from any group claiming to "support the troops, but not the war."
I ask again: How can these groups claim to support our troops while telling us that what we are participating in is wrong?
How can they support us if they are essentially saying that our blood and sacrifices have all been given in vain?
How can they support us if they say that our comrades and brothers who have been wounded or killed in action have done so for a hopeless and morally questionable cause?
* * *
I reply to the questions I pose with a simple answer: They can't. As a matter of fact, I assert with a considerable degree of confidence that their efforts make our already difficult job even more difficult. I'll go so far as to say that their rallies and protests cost more and more servicemen their lives and limbs every day.
I support my assertion with evidence gathered first hand. I see the Iraqi people every day. The protesters do not. I speak with the Iraqi people every day. The protesters do not. I don't sit behind a desk and do paperwork or resupply efforts in the military. I am an Infantry Marine and I walk the sewage-filled streets of this city every single day.
In Fallujah, the people watch Al Jazeerah. However, they also watch CNN. A lot of them fear that the United States will soon cut and run. The people of Iraq see when our country is divided. When they see rallies to "Bring The Troops Home," they see that as a sign that we will end our efforts prematurely.
Furthermore, they know that the insurgents will not end their efforts early. That leads them to the conclusion that when we leave, the insurgents will still be there. Therefore, if they help us, their lives and the lives of their loved ones will be in great jeopardy the minute we leave - if we don't finish the job.
Much that they see on American television leads them to believe that we intend to abandon our efforts before the new Iraqi government is capable of defending itself and its citizens.
* * *
The actions of these aforementioned organizations and the heavy media coverage their rallies often generate serves as fuel for the insurgency. Insurgents believe they can drive us out through the idea of "death by a thousand cuts." The longer they persist in their efforts, the more the American public becomes disenchanted with the coalition effort.
The insurgency sees this as a result. These criminals will continue to kill Iraqi civilians, Iraqi Police, Iraqi Army and coalition forces so long as they see that their efforts are alienating the American public from its military.
And for those of you that aren't up to speed with the situation in Iraq, the insurgents attack and kill established public services (such as Iraqi police and Iraqi army) more often than they attack coalition forces. As a matter of fact, an explosive-laden insurgent blew himself up last week outside the Iraqi police station that is attached to our compound.
The insurgents aren't fighting simply to drive America out of Iraq. They are fighting to destroy any semblance of the Iraqi government so that they can impose their will on its people.
Publicly protesting our efforts in Iraq fuels the insurgency. Doing it under the pretext of "supporting our troops" is disgraceful.
* * *
Let me now emphasize that I respect an American citizen's right to voice his or her opinion in a public forum. Such a right is granted in the U.S. Constitution.
However, voicing one's opinion in such an irresponsible way is something I do not support. Additionally, using deployed service members as a mask to serve your purely political purpose is downright shameful. If your desire is to protest the war, then protest the war, but don't use me or any reference to our troops as a tool to bolster your purpose.
I'll summarize by saying this: Organizations such as The Ridgefield Coalition to Stop the War do not support our troops. No matter what they say or what is printed on the signs they carry, they effectively do the opposite of support us. They downright hurt us.
Such organizations damage the morale of the men and women in the armed forces and progressively cause them to believe less and less in the mission at hand. The conditions here are difficult as it is. Opening a month-old edition of The Ridgefield Press and reading an article about an anti-war demonstration that uses our troops in an effort to mask its true cause doesn't help.
Please do not feign support while effectively telling us that we are fighting for an unworthy cause. I think I speak for an overwhelming majority of our troops when I ask organizations like The Ridgefield Coalition to Stop the War to discontinue using Marines, soldiers, airmen and sailors as a means to serve a political end.
You are neither supporting us nor honoring us. You are doing the exact opposite.


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Basehead a true sellout american......
incredible your logic
 
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He is FOS ...

to quote DeLay: I SUPPORT THE TROOPS ... I DONT SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT

Basehead ... rumor is you served ... if that is true, I say thank you as I will never once trash a Vet to this country

I have a hard time supporting a bullshit policy that has our kids in harms way and if you have a hard time with that angle, so be it

You said you served ... if so, thank you sir as I might be an asshole but I will never cross the line and trash someone that had the guts to serve

I never trash the messanger ... the message is a difft story
 

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stucco43 said:
Basehead a true sellout american......
incredible your logic
I know....youre the true patriot.

Its USMC Corporal Ippolitis logic champ.....although Im inclined to agree with him on many points.Which parts dont you argee with shithead? Or did you not even read it?

Doc....its bad enough you enter my threads when I asked you not to but now youre going to hijack it by keep posting....have you no honor and/or humility?You and succo go have your leftwing suckfest in one of your 30-40 threads.
 

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Ippoliti is rather misguided about "supporting the troops but not the war" and how it applies to soldiers in the field.

It's rather easy for the average person to see the role of the soldier in a situation that is difficult and impossible to win.....if one looks at it with common sense with regard to what little has been accomplished, and all the failings of our government in this war, from grossly ignoring the Powell Doctrine and the strength of the insurgency, to sending our troops out lacking proper armor.....christ, they don't even have all four doors on the hummer.....

So, in light of all this and the constant attacks from insurgents and the hundreds of billions wasted in this war.....somehow I'm supposed to be IN SUPPORT of this war, given the past history of these types of wars and that we're years into a conflict that, if approached the same way in the future as has been approached in the past, easily has the potential to drag out for years and end on the same sour notes as wars in the past?

"Death by a thousand cuts" is a fact in wars of this nature, whether the media chooses to report it or not, the insurgents know the power gained in keeping a major military force on site spending over a billion dollars a week. The insurgents aren't getting some pep rally from Americans speaking out against the war because they knew the effect of work when fighting began. Conditions over there would be the same regardless if the press was at work or regardless what the American public thought about our involvement. The insurgents are fighting us because WE ARE THERE. They don't care about what the press writes or what the public thinks.

Ippoliti thinks we can somehow gather all the public together in support of the war and just keep throwing billions of dollars and thousands of troops home in bodybags and win this thing. Public support won't win this war.

What Ippoliti hasn't comprehended is the PRACTICAL issues in fighting a guerilla war that make it impossible to win. The logistics simply state that this war cannot be fought in the same capacity for years to come.
 

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Marco said:
The insurgents are fighting us because WE ARE THERE. They don't care about what the press writes or what the public thinks.

What our press writes and what the public thinks are the main focus for the insurgents in Iraq because that's the only way they can win this conflict. They can't defeat our forces militarily, but if they know that public opinion could lead to a withdrawl of U.S. forces through policy reversals and changes in leadership because we're a democracy. You, Marco, are a moral ally to the insurgency because you want the same thing they do.

If you think the fighting will stop if we leave, you're mistaken. If our forces withdraw before Iraqi forces can defend their government (we won't), these scumbags would step it up a notch and their would be horrible secretarian violence and an all-out civil war. The insurgency is not a political option in Iraq. They were not elected or appointed by any representation of the people's will in Iraq. They are merely murderous thugs who want to rule by the gun and democracy is their worst nightmare. They need to be resisted at any cost. The world, including the United States, would become a much more dangerous place to live in if Iraq would degenerate into a terrorist state. Democracy must succeed there. Getting the head scumbag in Iraq yesterday was a wonderful step in the right direction.
 

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Anti-liberal said:
What our press writes and what the public thinks are the main focus for the insurgents in Iraq because that's the only way they can win this conflict. They can't defeat our forces militarily, but if they know that public opinion could lead to a withdrawl of U.S. forces through policy reversals and changes in leadership because we're a democracy. You, Marco, are a moral ally to the insurgency because you want the same thing they do.

If you think the fighting will stop if we leave, you're mistaken. If our forces withdraw before Iraqi forces can defend their government (we won't), these scumbags would step it up a notch and their would be horrible secretarian violence and an all-out civil war. The insurgency is not a political option in Iraq. They were not elected or appointed by any representation of the people's will in Iraq. They are merely murderous thugs who want to rule by the gun and democracy is their worst nightmare. The world, including the United States, would become a much more dangerous place to live in if Iraq would degenerate into a terrorist state. Democracy must succeed there. Getting the head scumbag in Iraq yesterday was a wonderful step in the right direction.

The fighting won't stop if we leave and it won't stop if we stay. After what we did with the invasion, they need to fight. It's almost natural. They're going to have their civil war and I say let them have it out, maybe they'll break off into 3 countries. Great. Thinking we can hang around and kill all the people that want to fight and then go home and everyone will love each other is fucking utopian unreality. Seems like something only a flaming hippie liberal would think. All of a sudden the sunnies and shi'ites and kurds are gonna come together for a friendly poker game or something. You're a fucking hippie, anti-liberal. Get a grip on reality, bro.
 

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His opinion is shared my many ,many military folks up and down the chain of command.Why do you think you get and he doesnt?

Why do so many soldiers feel this way?

What do you think "winning" means? Maybe thats where you and the Cpl differ.

IMO it doesnt mean wiping out all violence in Iraq.Its giving the Iraqi enough time to get things structured enough to survive alone.Its making sure that the folks taking the reins dont revert back into new Saddams (or worse).Of course they attack because were there.....were there. Maybe theyd be attacking here instead if were werent there....you cant say for sure that wouldnt be the case.You also cant speak for the security of the world IF Saddam was left in there unabated...which was obviously becoming the case.

All I know, relaying to a soldier, fighting a war which he/she beleives is in, that it is unwinnable,an utter waste of time and money, is no way to support them.Thats the Cpl point IMO.

Its funny you mention Powell:

"Perpetual optmism is a force multiplier"
 

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"What our press writes and what the public thinks are the main focus for the insurgents in Iraq because thats the only way they can win this conflict."

They would be fighting us regardless whether there were no journalists there or 100,000. If you understand the insurgency you know that they are fighting us simply because of the occupation. Even if they did view the press as a cheerleader, how many of the insurgents are really that clued into what the press is putting out anyway? Do they go home and read a newspaper or turn their evil tv sets on and use some of that precious 3 hour a day electricity?

THE MAIN FOCUS OF THE INSURGENTS IS GETTING US THE FUCK OUT OF THERE.

"They can't defeat our forces militarily, but they know that public opinion could lead to a withdrawal of U.S. forces through policy reversals and changes in leadership because we're a democracy."

Yes, they can't defeat our forces militarily. They don't have to. Pure reason dictates that you can't dump $5.3 billion dollars a month into a war sustaining the current level of troops and equipment and carry on that effort forever. It happened to the Russians in Afghanistan, happened to us in Vietnam. Ten years into each of those wars it turned into shit or get off the pot.

"You Marco, are a moral ally to the insurgency because you want the same thing they do."

Somewhat like D2bets.......We tried to set a government up for them, and over the course of 3-4 years a significant number of them have fought us every step of the way.....let them have their own civil war amongst themselves....they seem rather content to live the simple life in sandland with their 5 prayers dispersed between moments of shooting people and setting bombs off in front of restaurants. If they want destitute poverty mixed with rich oil barons, then it's all fine with me.

When you read and see stories about the Koran getting placed in the sunlight and lethal riots breaking out because of it.....when stories of people there getting killed for simply wearing shorts......when people are kidnapped and rescued and then tell the world that their captors only watched cartoons because seeing a woman's face on tv was sacreligious....the women there will be dressed from head to foot with the living room drapes regardless what form of government they have.....

When you have conditions like those in that last paragraph in place, don't even start to try to tell me you can throw hundreds of billions of dollars at the problem of trying to rescue them from themselves. I'm not about to bury our grandkids with an insurmountable debt because some war profiteers think a rehab-for-Arabs program will work. History has proven it won't, you just have to look a little to the West of Iraq and see how the Palestinians and Israel get along. Even if you get a fledgling democracy started, it's like the mob over there.....one coup attempt and some other John Gotti with a towel on his head is at the helm. How Arafat and Castro and some of these other major political figures lasted so long without getting assassinated is truly a mystery.

I'm hardly an ally for the insurgency. I just want us out because I'm an absolute practical person that knows the history of these types of wars, the enormous expense we are taking on, the knowledge that these war expenses won't be paid back anymore than the debt we occured during Gulf War I, and the knowledge of the people of that region not accepting lifestyles and culture from the west.

With the exception of killing a few viable terrorists this whole excursion has been a waste. Would have been better if they'd have taken all the money spent there and made a bonfire out in the middle of a street....at least you'd get a little heat from it.

Like D2 said....."Get a grip on reality."
 

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Too bad, youre on the wrong side of history as they say.

We've already accomplished plenty.....Im sure youre very dismissive and/or in denial of it all but a country w/ no Saddam makes the big picture safer indeed.We've taken one of our sworn enemies and disabled him...rendering him nonexistant.

Im sure your next line will be something like....so lets go then....but the reality is the soldiers can gage when its "best" to leave and they say to leave now would be simply foolish.The fact is the day for massive withdrawal is coming just not as fast as you like.

I think Ill leave it up to guys serving to tell me whether this war is making a difference.I havent heard too much along lines of it being a "waste" from them.

Saddam has gotten the MSM makeover where now he is an inept characature of what his actual brutality and evilness was in reality.....not to mention his undying hatred of the USA.

Want some conspiracy.....check Iraqi connections to WTC '93.

"Rocky....you cant win"
 

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"Too bad you're on the wrong side of history as they say."

Ask the Russians about Afghanistan, the US about Vietnam, hell , even the redcoats got their ass kicked by a bunch of insurgents who refused to fight like "real men" all lined up out in the open, opting to hide behind the cover that something as simple as a tree provided. Amazing how simple strategy can overcome mass stupidity.


"The fact is the day for massive withdrawal is coming just not as fast as you like."

If you're waiting for the insurgency to die down you're not going to withdraw at all given that every day has been the same over there since the beginning.

"I think I'll leave it up to the guys serving to tell me whether this war is making a difference. I haven't heard too much along the lines of it being a "waste" to them."

First off, you're listening to the opinion of a group that has an obvious bias based on the fact that they're in the military. Yes men don't bother to think.....over 100,000 of them died in Korea and Vietnam and it wouldn't have mattered in either of those two wars if the military wanted to stay another 20 years. If you leave it up to military minds, you'll be spending $5.3 billion a month for the rest of the century if there is enough paper left to print money on and if the dollar is still worth anything. Being in the military doesn't make someone right, making decisions based on sound reasoning and reality does.

Secondly, you choose to ignore the opinion of troops who are indifferent or who consider it a waste.

Bottom line, you have no way to overcome the increasing cost this war is taxing the US, at $5.3 billion a month and rising your only real options are to withdraw leaving a military base or two open, leave completely, or continue the same pace and scale and get crushed out financially.

Cheers!:toast:
 

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Any idea how WWII cost the US Marco? Did we overcome somehow?
 

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War is a bad thing and anyone supporting a war they did not fight in... is going to a very bad place.
 

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bigplay said:
War is a bad thing and anyone supporting a war they did not fight in... is going to a very bad place.
That some mighty fine reasoning....so I cant support my freinds fighting this war....interesting.

Only soldiers can support each other and the fight against terrorist?Please explain.....

BTW were all going to the same place, 6 feet underneath the ground.

Marco: let me help you out:

p15a.gif


Gday gents.
 

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Basehead the EOG would like to buy you a little something for sending them so many customers. They asked me what you would like. I wasn't sure so I just said get him a little pink bonnet. I think you will like it and your welcome.
 

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You can't just take the bare numbers Base.

Vietnam coupled with the oil price increase crippled America in the 1970's.

Whereas America came out smelling of roses after WW2 with her infrastructure intact.

So there are some minor factors being excluded.

Now you can call me picky...but the entire rest of the world being a large pile of rubble might just perhaps be a teeny factor thats not being taken into account here.
smile.gif


:toast:
 

bushman
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Do you know when rationing ended in the UK Base ?

1954

...and we were on the winning side...
 

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"But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship . . . voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Herman Goering
 

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