Hey Vit, take Draymond Green Over 13.5 points tonight for the max amount

[PatsFan1283]

You have a little less than 2 years in his prime he didn't play with MJ, he was 1 of the best and most valuable players in the league both those years.

It might be a small sample size but it is the only data you have. Guys don't really perform on that level and it is just some lucky variance where they ran good for 2 years. Especially when they were really good the rest of their careers.

Like most players when they get into their early-mid 30s, his play declined. He was 33 with a bad back, playing 100 game seasons for a decade tends to have an effect on the body. Not sure why you are ignoring this.

If from 1987 to 1998 he was on the Knicks or Hawks instead of the Bulls, do you really think he wouldn't be an all-star caliber player?

 

[vitterd]

Nope, Wilt led teams for multiple years, and he never played with MJ

Pippen did no such thing, just a horrible analogy


Pippen without MJ is Wes Welker without Tom Brady

You're not understanding the analogy.....I'm responding to your robin comment.....and every great player in history is robin on that Jordan team. MJ without Pippen was 1-10 in the playoffs....that should make the lights go on for you.

 

[Willie99]

Did You Know? Scottie Pippin averaged 4 to 5 or more points per game with MJ over his career

and he made far more money without MJ

I wonder what the Rockets & the Blazers thought they werre getting?

 

[MantisToboggan]

MJ won 1 playoff game without Scottie Pippen. Never made it out of the first round. No tippin pippen made it to the second round in 93-94 without MJ ( Pippen was also 4th in the entire league in PER), and was one game from an NBA Finals appearance with Portland in 2000.

 

[MantisToboggan]

Did You Know? Scottie Pippin averaged 4 to 5 or more points per game with MJ over his career

and he made far more money without MJ

I wonder what the Rockets & the Blazers thought they werre getting?

That's what happens when you pay guys who are past their prime. Did you know Pippen had his highest PPG season in 93-94 and 94-95 ( you know the seasons Pippen played without MJ in his PRIME). Also his highest season in rebounds per game and steals per game. The guy turned in his career seasons without Jordan.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Did You Know? Scottie Pippin averaged 4 to 5 or more points per game with MJ over his career

and he made far more money without MJ

I wonder what the Rockets & the Blazers thought they werre getting?

So you think '93-95 was a complete fluke? You're just creating your own narrative and working backwards man.

Of course he made more $ after '98. Basketball salaries started skyrocketing during that time period.

MJ made more $ in 1996 than I think he made every year of his career combined before that.

 

[Willie99]

You're not understanding the analogy.....I'm responding to your robin comment.....and every great player in history is robin on that Jordan team. MJ without Pippen was 1-10 in the playoffs....that should make the lights go on for you.

I understood it perfectly, you said Wilt would play 2nd fiddle to MJ.

I pointed out Wilt led teams without MJ, while Scottie disappointed them

 

[PatsFan1283]

Do you think Worthy and McHale were overrated and not all-star caliber players either? After Magic got the HIV and Bird's back got F'd up, neither of them did anything either.

It's called getting old. Pippen just chose to play longer (because like you said, it was lucrative)

 

[Willie99]

So you think '93-95 was a complete fluke? You're just creating your own narrative and working backwards man.

Of course he made more $ after '98. Basketball salaries started skyrocketing during that time period.

MJ made more $ in 1996 than I think he made every year of his career combined before that.

are we not talking about a career? do you think 98 through 2002 was a fluke?

and that average I cited includes 93-95, I'm an honest man

 

[vitterd]

I understood it perfectly, you said Wilt would play 2nd fiddle to MJ.

I pointed out Wilt led teams without MJ, while Scottie disappointed them

No you're not understanding. There is not a single player in history that isn't the 2nd option on that Jordan team. That's the point here.

 

[MantisToboggan]

Does an aging Shaq making 20 mil to put up 11 and 5 for Cleveland somehow degrade his legacy?

 

[PatsFan1283]

We're talking about the caliber of player he was in his prime, which was a perennial all-star and top 10 player in the league. This was proven when he was on the court with MJ and also when he was off the court with MJ.

The fact his play dropped off when he was 32-33 years old with a bad back is hardly surprising to me and a variable you are strongly overweighting.

Of course his #s are gonna be better when he played with MJ, he wasn't on the decline then. This seems to be the thing you are overlooking. Yes he was worse when he left the Bulls because he was older then and not the same player.

If we compare his seasons from 93-95 to his seasons from '99 and on we can clearly see this.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Guys tend to be better in their 20s than 30s when it comes to professional basketball. Whether they play with Michael Jordan or Reggie Jordan or Jordan Crawford.

 

[MantisToboggan]

Pats, how do you see the rest of the series going?

 

[PatsFan1283]

Pats, how do you see the rest of the series going?

Said in the Defying thread on the mainboard I think GS should be fine but since this is their first trip here they could underperform. You never know how small the bucket is gonna get for guys on a corner 3 in Cleveland.

It's still their series to win to me though.

I thought GS should've been like -250 to -300ish even with Irving so can't really change that opinion off 1 game. Line up to -240/+200, I believe it was -200/+170 last night.

 

[Willie99]

y'all are Pippen fans, I'm just not that big on him

it's OK

 

[akphidelt]

I find it hilarious how they hate Lebron so much that they are now attacking Scottie Pippen to make it look like Jordan carried a group of nobodies to the finals like Lebron has.

 

[PatsFan1283]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/making-sense-of-the-madness-in-game-2-of-the-nba-finals/

Lowe in the last few paragraphs pretty much sums up my thoughts. Cleveland is going to need to win ugly.

 

[ScottL]

I understood it perfectly, you said Wilt would play 2nd fiddle to MJ.

I pointed out Wilt led teams without MJ, while Scottie disappointed them

Wilt is the greatest athlete that ever lived. He beat various American gold medalists in their own sports.

 

[MantisToboggan]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/making-sense-of-the-madness-in-game-2-of-the-nba-finals/

Lowe in the last few paragraphs pretty much sums up my thoughts. Cleveland is going to need to win ugly.

Ya, it's hard to argue with what you said and what Lowe said. Cleveland is going to need a lot more out of JR Smith if they're going to have any chance.