What about all the verses that speak of free will? It is pretty clear in the New Testament that free will us important. It's written in red all over the place.
It is the church's job to teach the pros and cons of the way people live. Not the government. The church has gotten really lazy trying to get the government to do the job they are supposed to do. The bible speaks of free will.
Quoting a book written 3k years ago by a bunch of goat herding barbarians for your justification for your political beliefs? How orginal. When someone qotes the bible its obvious they dont value logic as much as they do make believe, story time and blind faith. Kind of like trying to explain your position to the Taliban. Of course you and my Christian brothers are more tolerant but deep down i know you guys are kicking yourself for not inventing the Berka.
Fletch, more like 2K years ago for the New Testament. Your rhetoric is somewhat funny, but I don't find much truth in it. I'm guessing that you have an agnostic/atheistic world-view. To me, that requires much more blind faith than the evidence I see that supports the validity and truth to the Bible. And,
believe me, I've spent a lot of time researching it.
If you want to believe that there was nothing, and out of this nothing came this big bang from which our expanding universe came into being (which by itself is impossible, something from nothing?) - and then somehow some primordial swamp goo got zapped and turned into life, and over time poof magic here we are, then don't laugh at Christians for believing in creation.
Youre reading too much into me. Evolution makes sense up UNTIL the Big Bang than something interesting happens... the Atheist needs faith to say that something came from nothing. Where as the creationists theists use logic as something creates something. Now, up until that point thou you people toting your little story books are off the reservation. There is nothing logical and benevolent about a creator condoning mass murder, slavery, machismo, cruel and unusual punishment, etc etc and the NT with all of its Harry Potter tactics. Dudes performing miracles that simply are not possible and a birth happening without people fucking. Seriously dude, you think believing that nonsense doesnt take faith or at least two or three super duper good hits of acid to believe it? I will believe you did spend much time researching it but doing it with an open mind? No chance ,brother. Thats not your style. Its like telling my your handicapped and preparing for the 100m in 2016.
Free will has everything to do with this topic. Just because you personally believe something is wrong does not mean its the governments job to keep people from doing it.
That's not the definition of the term. You're interchanging the term "free will" with political libertarianism.
The Bible doesn't address different governmental philosophies, other than to say that we should obey the laws of the land unless they cause us to sin.
The Bible does address "free will" in the sense that it says that we are responsible for our actions. There also is a deeper concept involved with "free will" from a theological perspective which goes into the issue of whether or not God chooses man, or man chooses God. Luther and Calvin in the Protestant Reformation moved the church back to the Pauline and Augustinian thought which stated that man cannot seek after God unless God first chooses him. This is in opposition to Roman Catholic thought, that said that man can chose God apart from God's initiative. Martin Luther's famous magnum opus "The Bondage of the Will" taught that man's will was damaged in the fall of Adam such that he cannot freely choose God, unless God first moves on his heart.
John 6:44 No man can come to me unless the Father draws him
The Bible doesn't address different governmental philosophies, other than to say that we should obey the laws of the land unless they cause us to sin.
The Bible does address "free will" in the sense that it says that we are responsible for our actions. There also is a deeper concept involved with "free will" from a theological perspective which goes into the issue of whether or not God chooses man, or man chooses God. Luther and Calvin in the Protestant Reformation moved the church back to the Pauline and Augustinian thought which stated that man cannot seek after God unless God first chooses him. This is in opposition to Roman Catholic thought, that said that man can chose God apart from God's initiative. Martin Luther's famous magnum opus "The Bondage of the Will" taught that man's will was damaged in the fall of Adam such that he cannot freely choose God, unless God first moves on his heart.
John 6:44 No man can come to me unless the Father draws him
You are correct I am interchanging it because its basically the same thing.
I don't want you to have the misunderstanding that I condone these things. My personal beliefs and my political beliefs are not always one and the same. Just because I feel like gays should have rights does not mean I endorse the lifestyle
As far as the original post, still nary a word about this from our resident dimocraps? I'm shocked.
I guess if Dr. Kermit Gosnell used a rifle instead of scissors, their side might give a damn. But he didn't, so they don't. This is why dimocraps lose any moral high ground their gun control hissy fits might have given them.
I guess if Dr. Kermit Gosnell used a rifle instead of scissors, their side might give a damn. But he didn't, so they don't. This is why dimocraps lose any moral high ground their gun control hissy fits might have given them.
[ If these murderers used a gun instead of scissors, this would be front page news on every major media outlet, but alas - it's just an "abortion" a women's right to choose , right? - Fucking sick bastards ]
[h=1]Gosnell Trial Witness: Baby Abortion Survivor Was 'Swimming' in Toilet 'Trying to Get Out'[/h] April 18, 2013
By Elizabeth Harrington
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Dr. Kermit Gosnell, charged with 7 counts of first-degree murder, killing babies reportedly born alive at his abortion office in West Philadelphia, Pa. (AP)
(CNSNews.com) – On the last day of testimony before the prosecution rests in the murder trial of abortionist Kermit Gosnell, a former worker at Gosnell's clinic testified that she saw one late-term baby who survived an abortion "swimming" in a toilet and "trying to get out."
Kareema Cross, a “medical assistant” who worked at Gosnell’s Women’s Medical Society clinic for four-and-a-half years, testified in a Philadelphia court today, telling of the horrors of babies who survived abortions only to have their necks snipped with scissors.
“Did you ever see those babies move?” asked Prosecutor Joanne Pescatore.
“Yes, once in the toilet,” said Cross.
The baby “was like swimming,” she said. “Basically, trying to get out.”
Adrienne Moton, an employee at the clinic, then took the baby and snipped the back of its neck while its mother was still in the room.
Cross told the jury that when Shayquana Abrams came into the clinic in July 2008 she was pregnant, “and she was big.”
“That was the largest baby I ever saw,” Cross said.
When the baby was born alive, Abrams was sleeping. Cross said Dr. Gosnell took the baby boy, which she described as 12 to 18 inches long, and put him inside a plastic container the size of a shoebox.
“The baby was still breathing,” she said. “He didn’t cut the neck right there.”
The baby was too big for the plastic container, with his arms and legs hanging over the sides.
“The Doctor cut the back of the baby’s neck but didn’t do suction—normally Dr. Gosnell would do suction … to suck the brains out,” Cross said.
“I called people over to come see it [the baby] and we took pictures,” she said.
Baby Boy A, allegedly killed after being born alive and then having his spinal cord cut at the abortion office of Dr. Kermit Gosnell. (AP)
The baby boy had curled himself into the fetal position and laid on his side in the box. An image of the baby taken by Cross was shown to the court, showing him laying lifeless on his side. (the photo of the infant, Baby A, is included in the Grand Jury Report and is posted in this article.)
“It was supposed to go upstairs in the freezer, but it was still there the next day because the janitor complained,” Cross added.
She said Dr. Gosnell told her “the baby is big enough that it could walk to the store or the bus stop.”
Eventually the baby boy went in the freezer, Cross said.
Abrams was 17 when she went to the Women’s Medical Society for a late-term abortion on
July, 12, 2008. Earlier in the trial, Abrams testified that she was 29 weeks (slightly more than 7 months) pregnant and that the abortion sent her to the hospital for two weeks with complications, including a blood clot in her heart. Abortions after 24 weeks are illegal in Pennsylvania.
Cross also testified that she witnessed Steven Massof, an unlicensed medical school graduate who worked at the clinic, snip babies necks (spinal cords) 25 to 30 times.
Cross said she saw babies that were still breathing after botched abortions at least 10 times. Dr. Gosnell would cut the back of their necks with scissors, she said.
“He just said they’re not breathing,” Cross said.
The abortion clinic, Women's Medical Society, operated by Dr. Kermit Gosnell at 3801-05 Lancaster Avenue, Philadelphia, Penn. (Grand Jury Report)
“Linda’s baby,” as described by the prosecution, was also still alive following an abortion, moving its arm back and forth. Cross said the baby was breathing for 10 to 20 minutes before its neck was cut with scissors.
On another occasion, Cross said she heard a “soft whine,” or whimper coming from a baby in another other room.
Cross took photographs of the clinic in 2008 out of concern. The photographs, shown in the courtroom, depicted over 50 jars filled with baby’s feet stored at the clinic, which Gosnell said he was keeping for “DNA purposes.”
More photos showed bloody equipment, and Gosnell’s cat sleeping on a chair at the clinic. The cat would roam freely, even in the procedure rooms, and go to the bathroom on the first and second floor, Cross said.
The trial of Gosnell, 72, in the Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas is currently in its fifth week. He is charged with seven counts of first-degree murder (seven babies), one count of third-degree murder of a mother, as well as infanticide, conspiracy, abortion at 24 or more weeks, abuse of a corpse, theft, corruption of minors, solicitation and other related offenses.
[h=1]Gosnell Trial Witness: Baby Abortion Survivor Was 'Swimming' in Toilet 'Trying to Get Out'[/h] April 18, 2013
By Elizabeth Harrington
Subscribe to Elizabeth Harrington RSS
Follow Elizabeth Harrington on Twitter
8201 384
Dr. Kermit Gosnell, charged with 7 counts of first-degree murder, killing babies reportedly born alive at his abortion office in West Philadelphia, Pa. (AP)(CNSNews.com) – On the last day of testimony before the prosecution rests in the murder trial of abortionist Kermit Gosnell, a former worker at Gosnell's clinic testified that she saw one late-term baby who survived an abortion "swimming" in a toilet and "trying to get out."
Kareema Cross, a “medical assistant” who worked at Gosnell’s Women’s Medical Society clinic for four-and-a-half years, testified in a Philadelphia court today, telling of the horrors of babies who survived abortions only to have their necks snipped with scissors.
“Did you ever see those babies move?” asked Prosecutor Joanne Pescatore.
“Yes, once in the toilet,” said Cross.
The baby “was like swimming,” she said. “Basically, trying to get out.”
Adrienne Moton, an employee at the clinic, then took the baby and snipped the back of its neck while its mother was still in the room.
Cross told the jury that when Shayquana Abrams came into the clinic in July 2008 she was pregnant, “and she was big.”
“That was the largest baby I ever saw,” Cross said.
When the baby was born alive, Abrams was sleeping. Cross said Dr. Gosnell took the baby boy, which she described as 12 to 18 inches long, and put him inside a plastic container the size of a shoebox.
“The baby was still breathing,” she said. “He didn’t cut the neck right there.”
The baby was too big for the plastic container, with his arms and legs hanging over the sides.
“The Doctor cut the back of the baby’s neck but didn’t do suction—normally Dr. Gosnell would do suction … to suck the brains out,” Cross said.
“I called people over to come see it [the baby] and we took pictures,” she said.
Baby Boy A, allegedly killed after being born alive and then having his spinal cord cut at the abortion office of Dr. Kermit Gosnell. (AP)The baby boy had curled himself into the fetal position and laid on his side in the box. An image of the baby taken by Cross was shown to the court, showing him laying lifeless on his side. (the photo of the infant, Baby A, is included in the Grand Jury Report and is posted in this article.)
“It was supposed to go upstairs in the freezer, but it was still there the next day because the janitor complained,” Cross added.
She said Dr. Gosnell told her “the baby is big enough that it could walk to the store or the bus stop.”
Eventually the baby boy went in the freezer, Cross said.
Abrams was 17 when she went to the Women’s Medical Society for a late-term abortion on
July, 12, 2008. Earlier in the trial, Abrams testified that she was 29 weeks (slightly more than 7 months) pregnant and that the abortion sent her to the hospital for two weeks with complications, including a blood clot in her heart. Abortions after 24 weeks are illegal in Pennsylvania.
Cross also testified that she witnessed Steven Massof, an unlicensed medical school graduate who worked at the clinic, snip babies necks (spinal cords) 25 to 30 times.
Cross said she saw babies that were still breathing after botched abortions at least 10 times. Dr. Gosnell would cut the back of their necks with scissors, she said.
“He just said they’re not breathing,” Cross said.
The abortion clinic, Women's Medical Society, operated by Dr. Kermit Gosnell at 3801-05 Lancaster Avenue, Philadelphia, Penn. (Grand Jury Report)“Linda’s baby,” as described by the prosecution, was also still alive following an abortion, moving its arm back and forth. Cross said the baby was breathing for 10 to 20 minutes before its neck was cut with scissors.
On another occasion, Cross said she heard a “soft whine,” or whimper coming from a baby in another other room.
Cross took photographs of the clinic in 2008 out of concern. The photographs, shown in the courtroom, depicted over 50 jars filled with baby’s feet stored at the clinic, which Gosnell said he was keeping for “DNA purposes.”
More photos showed bloody equipment, and Gosnell’s cat sleeping on a chair at the clinic. The cat would roam freely, even in the procedure rooms, and go to the bathroom on the first and second floor, Cross said.
The trial of Gosnell, 72, in the Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas is currently in its fifth week. He is charged with seven counts of first-degree murder (seven babies), one count of third-degree murder of a mother, as well as infanticide, conspiracy, abortion at 24 or more weeks, abuse of a corpse, theft, corruption of minors, solicitation and other related offenses.
JDeuce, pretty damned true my friend. It's the same shit over and over again. The dims rules only apply when it helps them out, or pushes their agenda further down the road. They cry about taking guns off the streets to save the children, innocent kids, etc. etc. etc.
But, they have no problem with abortion, and abhorrently sickening, not with this story either....just so happens the guy is black, a murderer, and more than likely, a democrat.
This clinic has been in trouble since 2009, and this is the first the media has taken the time to throw little snippets out there...weird dontchathink?
But, they have no problem with abortion, and abhorrently sickening, not with this story either....just so happens the guy is black, a murderer, and more than likely, a democrat.
This clinic has been in trouble since 2009, and this is the first the media has taken the time to throw little snippets out there...weird dontchathink?
Abortion is legal in this country....and your buddies trying to blow up clinics, kill abortion doctors and protest isnt gonna change that. Mass murder of grade school kids is not legal.
You really believe an aborted baby was trying to swim? It is amazing what people will believe around here if it fits their agenda.
This is how they roll, G-Man. All of them. Moving the goal posts to whatever fits their fucked agenda is one of their favorite tactics and it is used by libtards on every single poltical board on the internet.
Logic and reason do NOT work on libtards. If it did, there wouldn't be any. I've pretty much accepted the fact that they're diseased and have moved on down the road. There is no answer, there is no effective counter to their mental illness. Even when you soundly defeat them and show them irrefutable logic as to why they lost, they will still convince themselves they won.
It's the same way with mental illness everywhere....nothing is ever their fault. And since the huge majority of today's economic and social woes can be traced back to dimocrap origins, they will not only convince themselves that their stupid policies had nothing to do with it...they'll try to blame the other side. Every time. And they will NEVER admit when they're wrong, which is virtually all the time.
Oh yeah? And to this point, gun ownership is legal and euthanizing live infants is illegal, you dumb fucking douchebag.
Two can play at this game of word smithing.
As far as the babies go, there is testimony from 10+ people that these children were born live....so whether or not the kid was swimming or struggling while drowning, I don't give a rat's ass....but you are one sick mutha fucker even with a morsel of defense for these disgusting human being with your ad hominem attacks. What a deplorable human being you are turning into, all because of your belief in mein fuhrer.
Im not defending them you moron. It is disgraceful what they did...even though half of their stories look like bullshit...but they make your narrative on abortion seem stronger, so you will buy anything they say under any circumstances.
The fact that you care so much about abortion and so little about the same people after they are born is amazing to me.
Are you retarded? I don't care about abortion. A woman can do what she wants, I have said that on here multiple times.
Sending a murderer or rapist to their death quickly and harshly? Hell yes. The irony is with the left on this matter. Kill babies, ban guns to save the children. Get it?
Overturning the second amendment because of some psychopathic rampage?
No.
Next.
