Has The Internet Age Effected Bookies Profit Margins?

[CoachLT]

I know the Swamper well, he is from Louisiana.

Rainbow, is Mr Nolan still alive? Also, will you be at The Bash? If you are, it would be my pleasure to meet you sir. This year could be the Whos Who of sports wagering. A lot of knowledge. How about a sports handicapping seminar? Now that would be The Cats Meow. LT

 

[Aquatic]

Rainbow

Mickey was known as the "Man who lived to chart". Big ballbuster in the office I heard. Did you work for him while the present Grande owner was working out of the same office before there was a Grande? Was it 1995 or 96 that Mickey died?

 

[SVT_Cobra]

Wil, I promise you the office I worked for Mickey Wheels was a great office. I worked there for 3.5 years, reason for leaving I got food poisoning eating escargot.

Mickey Wheels, there's a name I haven't heard in a while. He must have had one of the only caddy's on the island.

 

[wantitall4moi]

As far as locals and a 3/3.5.


In the first place that 3/3.5 controversey is the most vastly overrated worry in sports gambling. Secondly most books know their clietele. So they can give one guy a 3, and another guy the 3.5 depending on how often they bet the dog or the fave, of if thast person will take a "better" number on the blind and they need to balance or swing action. For example some guys might not like the game but if they see -3 everywhere and their bookie is offering them +3.5, they will take blindly. Stupid and unjustified, but because so many people seem to think the advantage is there they still do it.

Besides even if they do get hit a little both ways, again, they know their clintele. Sooner or later they get it all back. Bookies do not stay in business for as long as some do by doing it "wrong". Besides they themselves can utilze the internet and simply lay it off somewhere where THEY can get the odds they don't offer themself. SO they give their "sucker" the +3.5 for -110, then they turn around and play it at Pin for +110, and they still have their action on -3 -110. They are offering 10 better on the -3, but they are balanced and are gaining 20 cents on their balancing action, so they are actually ahead of it slightly.

It isn't brain surgery. People simple think that books and bookies blindly gamble and hope to win more thanthey lose just like the gambler. Might be the case in some situations, but any bookie with a decent clientele and the ability to get his books balanced can make a decent living.

People think you are and should get rich. Like the Derby thread. How assinin is that? Books do not make millions upon millions on a single event. PERIOD. Anyone that thinks so is either misinformed or purposefully trying to mislead people. Because to WIN that much, they have to be exposed to LOSE that much. And I don't care how "deep" a books pockets are, a 4-5 million dollar hit is going to cripple them, especially if they have to pay it out all at once like most horse players like to be paid. So to think that a book cleaned up because a 50-1 shot won is assinine. Even if they are running their own pool and paying pot odds, they are most definately laying off the overweighted action they got on the horses that didn't win, to think they don't is very naive...

 

[winbet]

Wantitall4moi,

Spot on as usual, and you beat be to it on some points. As with alot of these type of debates, although posters give some sound reasoning, I think they assume all bookmaking is the same. Things that work for one bookmaker doesnt nessesary work for others, ducking and diving is more the reality than say bookies %s. However, there is a limit to anything and some of the prices had from locals quoted on this forum are an absolute nonsense.

 

[Rainbow]

Rainbow, is Mr Nolan still alive? Also, will you be at The Bash? If you are, it would be my pleasure to meet you sir. This year could be the Whos Who of sports wagering. A lot of knowledge. How about a sports handicapping seminar? Now that would be The Cats Meow. LT

Yes is still alive, and he"s in good health, noway possible I can make the BASH this year, I will be too busy...

 

[Rainbow]

Mickey was known as the "Man who lived to chart". Big ballbuster in the office I heard. Did you work for him while the present Grande owner was working out of the same office before there was a Grande? Was it 1995 or 96 that Mickey died?

No, he was a real good guy to work for, I can remember oneday I came back from a break and he could tell I had a few beers to drink on the break, so he called me outside and rolled his wheelchair outside to talk to me, he said you been drinking, I said yes sir, he said this will be the last time this happens, if it happens again I will personally excort you to the airport. Skip was in the same office, it wasnt Grande back then, I know Skip well, real good guy. Mickey was real strict to work for but he paid EXCELLENT, he died in 1995, he died in Costa Rica, I wasnt working for him anymore, Mickey had more pull than Sacco could think about having, Mickey knew everytime the Imigration was coming by our office, he would always tell me I will call you whenever they leave...

 

[max1234]

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 width=175>wantitall4moi<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_1937160", true); </SCRIPT>
RX Senior



Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,107


</TD><TD class=alt1><!-- icon and title -->

<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->As far as locals and a 3/3.5.


In the first place that 3/3.5 controversey is the most vastly overrated worry in sports gambling.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



I can see you've never been a 'local' if you think that it's over rated. It's more important for a local than a large offshore shop. Get sided a couple of times and see what the bottom line for the week looks like.

 

[CAPNCRUNCH]

This is my maiden breaking post and would like to say hi to everyone ! Hey Rainbow who was the kid Mickey slapped the tar out of? How bout when we found out there was prime rib at the Cafe? And I cant remember the name of Mickeys brother but he sure had some great stories huh? Rainbow Id buy you a beer at our old joint but they tore it down. What a shame, I miss the 80s , Leroys, and a whole lot more. Hope everyone is well !

 

[wantitall4moi]

Max, that is just it, in the past 5 years they might have gotten sided 16-17 times. That is about 3.5 times a year. Not something that should break anyone with any sort of money managing ability. Considering in that time frame there have been about 240 games lined -3, then do the math. It means they have about a 7% chance to be sided. And lets not forget that getting sided mean very little. One side is a loss, which anyone with brains would have laid off at better odds, and made more than they pay. And the other side is a push.


So in a vacuum a bookie that gets sided should in fact MAKE money not lose it.
And yes I have taken bets in the past. And yes I did make a bit of money doing it. So that is why I have some knowledge in the area. Basically when you book bets, and can lay the money off, basically these guys are investment capitalists for you.

You offer -6 to a guy for the -110. Then you look for somehwere you can get the -6 for less than -110, or even take the 6.5 for -110. I would rather take the odds than the half point. But that is me. Something is better than nothing. As long as you can get back more than you have to pay the guy is money in your pocket. The more guys you have giving you money to bet, the more money you have to put into someplace with better odds.

Simple wholesaling. The thing is to have a plan, not get greedy, and get what you can. In bases it is a lot easier since the moves are more volatile, and offer real value compared to ficticious value when it comes to line moves.

The only way I see the net really hurting a local is if the guy is comparing and using the bookie when the bookie has a better number, and uses the net when the net has the better number. That makes it harder for the bookie to shade odds to get something both ways.

 

[Rainbow]

This is my maiden breaking post and would like to say hi to everyone ! Hey Rainbow who was the kid Mickey slapped the tar out of? How bout when we found out there was prime rib at the Cafe? And I cant remember the name of Mickeys brother but he sure had some great stories huh? Rainbow Id buy you a beer at our old joint but they tore it down. What a shame, I miss the 80s , Leroys, and a whole lot more. Hope everyone is well !

Mickeys brother bled to death in Costa Rica, one night he went out and got drunk, and I believed he bumped his head on something and passed out, he was knocked out drunk, I believe his name was Arturo, I will never forget that morning when Mickey slapped that kid in his face, the last thing Mickey said was dont go out tonight because the Feds are in town, he went out anyway and paid for it the next day, I miss them good old days, I am doing fine, I married a Costarican. where are you?

 

[max1234]

Moi,

What you're talking about or what you were doing isn't booking you're merely looking for scalps or sides using other people's money. If a book lays off his action then he isn't going to make much hoping for a game to land a number. And as far as getting sided and making money.... If a guy is 'booking' he's not making money getting sided, he's losing money.

 

[CAPNCRUNCH]

Rainbow- Im glad to hear youre fine and married too! Congratulations! Ive been around the block for a while now, something I know you can apreciate. I have to admit of all the clerks Ive known you definitely could handle your phone as well as any, including your namesake from NY. (Sorry had to move Boston) . For all you RXers out there this man Rainbow made a lot of people alot of money fading players. Of course it only usually matters when a game falls and the bosses arent in too good a mood anyhow. Im sure we will hook up one these days if its meant to be. I know youre banging em out in baseball, Good luck! I want to give a shout out to the Shrink, the General, Slim and awhole slew of others who have kept me informed, entertained and generally amused the last five years. PS Hey to the Major also. Party on Boys and Girls!

 

[THE SHRINK]

Hi there CAPN CRUNCH and welcome to the Rx...arty:

 

[wantitall4moi]

Max, you are like everyone else. You are not defining book making in it true sense.


Book making in its true and orignal form is taking action on an event offering odds on both sides to get equal action so thatthe person or entity that is taking the bets makes money no matter what side wins. I AM describing bookmaking, you all are describing gambling.

Gambling by definaition is to have action in hopes that your choice is the correct choice, and that you win more than you lose.

All bookmakers are SUPPOSED to be scalper, arbitragers, or whatever term you want to give them. They are not supposed to bew going head to head with the gamblers hoping that the numbers they are putting up are influencial enough have more people bet the losing side more than the winning side.

That is the scariest thing about gambling these days. Too many books do gamble. But luckily for them more people lose than win, so they survive. Like I have said in the past, it would scare people to death if these books did make public just what their operating capital is and how much cash they do truly have on hand after they have to pay off everyone they owe.

Race tracks take out between 8-23% I think these days from betting pools, and they still cannot make money enough to stay in business without help. So how are we as gambler supposed to think that books can make money on holds of less than 3% in most cases?

And don't talk about volume. Santa Anita race track handle about 300 mil a year or more, and they still barely make ends meet with their holds where they are. So in correltaion if SA median hold is 12% on 300 Mill, that mean a book would have to handle $1.2 billion at 3% to make an equal amount. People might like to think they handle that much, but I think it is far less than that, even for the biggest places.

 

[CAPNCRUNCH]

Thanks for the welcome Shrink! You have always been a gentleman as long as Ive known you. Me and a buddy took a road trip down to your neck of the woods last year. I thoroughly enjoyed Colonial Downs and those big 10+ fields on the turf! Thats amazing how nice that track is considering its so new. Couldnt believe how much Va Beach has grown , but i guess thats the same everywhere. Heck , look at Vegas its like going to LA theres so much traffic. But hey "We ll always have Paris!" Ciao!

 

[max1234]

Moi,



You're comparing a racetrack to a book? Don't take this personally but that might be the worst analogy or comparison I've ever seen. As far as bookie's 'gambling' goes, I'd say that if I'm doing it like everyone else then I'm on the right side of the desk. I don't know of any local that has the time to take action on a Sunday morning and check out multiple outs to see if there's someplace where he can hedge his action to try to hit a side. Wish I could stay and debate this further but from what you've posted today I don't think it would make much difference. I guess we'll just agree to disagree. GL

 

[ironlock]

MOI-
I find your posts to be about as high quality as anyone here, however, I think you are in over your head with your analysis of local bookmakers...

I just think your idea of what they do, and what they are supposed to do, is confused and a bit theoretical....that simply isn't the way it works. Scalping and middling is less profitable than assuming the risk...all good BM's understand this...and use the long run as their guide. A limited bankroll would be the only reason to operate the way you suggest.

Iron.

 

[scott]

The history, the evolution of Las Vegas race & sports betting can be defined by three distinct eras. The beginnings, the first era, when we booked out of storefronts, pre computers and few TV games. The Gaming Control Board left us alone, The Feds didn’t know we existed and most important, bookmakers usually owned the store or booked with their own money. Every store I managed in LV I used a private owners br.

The next era saw the casinos open race and sports books. Some were quite elaborate and expansive, some were no more than old store front books situated in a casino. This era was the apex, the glory days of LV race/sports betting. Sportsbooks were now located in casinos and the casinos were owned by, wink, ‘The Outfit’. The line, the odds for the most part originated in Las Vegas and getting a bet down was no problem. By now The Gaming Control Board began to pay attention and The Feds took a closer look also.

The next era saw the hotels and casinos bought by corporations and those corporations were bought by even bigger corporations. Now today a handful of super gaming companys have taken over, consolidated and monopolized the Strip and most of Downtown Las Vegas. The Outfit is gone, sports betting regulations are strict, The Feds count every dollar and the books are mostly all pazzazz and not much bookmaking. Even the race books lost their gamble and went pari mutual. This is where we’re at today in LV. Time marches on. The current race & sportsbook model suits the suits in the corporate offices just fine.

Information is still information. In Bob Martins Churchill Downs "lnformation" had more value simply because there were so few sources. We had the old UPI ticker, phones and a very close wiseguy network. An injury meant something. Today we have the Internet which gives a hard worker access to
every teams newspaper/s and most of their business. TV ,and especially radio shows, dispense line moving info right up till game time. The wiseguy network is still there BUT, and this is what's different, it's there for all of us. A hard worker can beat the moves. It's the same game only us old school guys have to adapt or get hammered. Today both layers and players have to pay closer attention, the game is much faster.....Scotty

 

[winbet]

Wantitall,

It appears you are flogging a dead horse trying to explain whats going on in the real world of betting. Thats why I take some of the ridiculous comments some posters make with a pinch of salt.