Exposing a Cheater! Need help and advice from forum!

[Kojak]

Fellow posters,
As you know, Brock Landers and I have a challenge that concludes at end of March Madness. I started off real well and Brock has been doing real well. Problem exists with a play today. Brock last week posted a line that never existed at time of his play. The play won, I counted it as a win, but told him and others confirmed that line never existed at time of play. Today, he did it again on BYU game. He posted BYU at +2.5. At time of play, the only line available was +2. It later went to 2.5 late. I called him out on it which he said it existed at Greek.
See post below.

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03-16-2007, 05:39 AM <!-- / status icon and date --></TD><TD class=thead style="BORDER-RIGHT: #fdde82 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #fdde82 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-LEFT: #fdde82 0px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #fdde82 1px solid" align=right> #11 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #fdde82 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #fdde82 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #fdde82 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #fdde82 0px solid" width=175>Kojak<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_3940870", true); </SCRIPT>
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,032


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Thanks for proving my point!
<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Your post as you see below is at 3:03 pm.

<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead colSpan=2>03-15-2007 03:03 PM</TD></TR><TR title="Post 3936986" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>Brock Landers</TD><TD class=alt2>Kojak (12-11-1)
Brock Landers (11-13)

Louisville -5 1/2
Wright St + 9 1/2
BYU +2 1/2
Vandy -3 1/2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="98%" border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#99cccc><TD width="22%">[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Mar 15 3:52pm[/FONT]</TD><TD align=left width="32%">[FONT=Verdana, Arial]5 Team If Bet - Winner[/FONT]</TD><TD width="30%">[FONT=Verdana, Arial]810.00 to win 2000.00[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right width="15%">[FONT=Verdana, Arial]1100.00 [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#99cccc><TD width="100%" colSpan=4>[FONT=Verdana, Arial]1. Basketball - Michigan State - moneyline (-135)
for the entire game held on Mar 15 at 6:20pm [winner]
risking 810.00 to win 600.00 - If Win ONLY - [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#99cccc><TD width="100%" colSpan=4>[FONT=Verdana, Arial]2. Basketball - BYU - spread +2½ (-115)
for the entire game held on Mar 15 at 8:40pm [winner]
risking 575.00 to win 500.00 - If Win ONLY - [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#99cccc><TD width="100%" colSpan=4>[FONT=Verdana, Arial]3. Basketball - Indiana U - moneyline (-130)
for the entire game held on Mar 15 at 8:55pm [winner]
risking 520.00 to win 400.00 - If Win ONLY - [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#99cccc><TD width="100%" colSpan=4>[FONT=Verdana, Arial]4. Basketball - Wright State - spread +12½ (-160)
for the entire game held on Mar 15 at 8:40pm [loss]
risking 400.00 to win 250.00 - If Win ONLY - [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#99cccc><TD width="100%" colSpan=4>[FONT=Verdana, Arial]5. Basketball - VA Commonwealth - spread +10½ (-250)
for the entire game held on Mar 15 at 6:10pm [winner]
risking 625.00 to win 250.00 [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


As you can see from times of Brock's post and his play, they do not match. This half a point is the difference between a win for Brock and a push. I will leave it up to you guys to decide. First, how do you feel this game should be graded. Second, since this is his second time pulling this crap, how should it affect our contest if any. I am a firm believer in winning and losing fair and square. If I lose to Brock, I am more than happy to congratulate him and pay him but fact of the matter is, here is a guy who quit, I allowed him to come back, and since coming back has lied about his lines twice. I would like to hear what others have to say about it.

 

[mike0187]

Well you guys obviously need to be posting books the lines were found at. I haven't been following the situation so I can't really say much.

I do see the time difference though

edit: ok I see where you say he claims it was at the greek. sounds like you need fellow posters checking lines each time you guys post plays

 

[wowstrongpick]

time is different and a half or a whole point can be the difference as in todays xavier game and a couple others too

 

[tlee4lizard]

i personally know you were kicing his ass, but of laye the tide has turned against you. i never saw any line at plus 2- for BYU. his times are off by almost an hour. but who cares who wins or loses we are all here to make money. i personally read your info everyday,it does not effect my decision unless i like a game and you as well then i double my bet.( same goes for flav i trust my capping and respect both of yours) you are the winner Brock gave up like 3days in to the challenge, as stated by his post.

 

[Kojak]

wow,
This was the Xavier game and it did make a difference.

What I need to know from those that play at Greek today, can they confirm or deny that Xavier -2.5 was available before tipoff of first game today as that is when our plays have to be posted by. If someone can confirm it, I will accept it as a win. Fact is I use 2 different line services and 2 was the best number available before tipoff of first game at every place listed including Greek. If line was temporarily available and someone can confirm ok. If not, I would like to hear how this game should be graded and since this is second time I have proven he has cheated, what should be done?
A. Nothing continue as normal but use opening lines
B. Brock should be penalized
C. Brock should be disqualified for cheating

 

[wowstrongpick]

wow,
This was the Xavier game and it did make a difference.

What I need to know from those that play at Greek today, can they confirm or deny that Xavier -2.5 was available before tipoff of first game today as that is when our plays have to be posted by. If someone can confirm it, I will accept it as a win. Fact is I use 2 different line services and 2 was the best number available before tipoff of first game at every place listed including Greek. If line was temporarily available and someone can confirm ok. If not, I would like to hear how this game should be graded and since this is second time I have proven he has cheated, what should be done?
A. Nothing continue as normal but use opening lines
B. Brock should be penalized
C. Brock should be disqualified for cheating

yea i stated a half or full point could change the outcome of a bet .. i havent seen -2.5 but im at mysportsbook so that might not help ..

 

[Furmanski]

I had BYU +2.5 at 7pm on bookmaker. When I get the line, I post. That was the time that I posted, and it can be taken as the truth.

I am with you KJ, and dont know about 3pm, but I know that at 7pm at BM, it was +2.5..........

 

[Kojak]

Furmanski,
Take into account also, that line had to be available before tip off of first game today which was roughly 11:20 cst as he has to post before first game. I believe time on RX is GMT so there is no way he posted at 3:03 cst due to rules of our challenge. That has to be 11:03 cst.

 

[tmader7]

I got Xmen at -2, but I have no clue whatsoever why in God's green earth you'd give a shit about that BS. Yea, I'll hear the rookie BS from everyone tomorrow, but KJ, I've posted sparrowingly and usually am nuts on. First, who the phuck cares how your plays go, I don't, because it's your money. Second, you play what you think is a good plaY, haven't seen many of us agree in the past several weeks. GLTU in MM

~T~

 

[Furmanski]

Agreed....I am in no way arguing with you....I dont know if there is a way of confirming the time/spread of that game. Someone who would know that is good at figuring the movement of lines is OMT. I dont know how to go into a site and figure that out.

 

[Kojak]

tmader

The reason I am bringing this up is we had a challenge for $50. Yesterday evening, Brock decided to up the amount to $250. Today he comes out with this line that was not available.

The fact is contest is now close as I have been cold and Brock has been doing well and this half point makes a difference with contest now being close.

 

[wowstrongpick]

i say count it as a no play or loss

 

[MistaFlava]

Wagerline follows most books (Pinnacle I think is their tie-in) and here is their line history. They are always on the ball with line changes so here ya are:



<TABLE class=data id=tblLineMoves cellSpacing=0><TBODY><TR class=datahead><TD height=4>Date/Time</TD><TD height=4>Odds (Line) </TD><TD height=4>Over/Under (Total) </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=datacell>03/11/07 09:10 PM ET (Open)</TD><TD class=datacell>+1</TD><TD class=datacell> </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=datacell>03/11/07 10:50 PM ET</TD><TD class=datacell>+1</TD><TD class=datacell>148u</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=datacell>03/12/07 12:40 PM ET</TD><TD class=datacell>+1.5</TD><TD class=datacell>148u</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=datacell>03/14/07 09:40 AM ET</TD><TD class=datacell>+2</TD><TD class=datacell>148u</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=datacell>03/15/07 06:31 PM ET</TD><TD class=datacell>+2.5</TD><TD class=datacell>148u</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


According to this, it did not move to +2.5 until sometime after 6:00pm ET

 

[tmader7]

KJ, when I get up in the morning and start capping, they're are a half dozen other cappers whose opinions I want to see. Yours is one of them. I really respect your view on a game, I apologize for being as bashfull as I am because I don't post plays here, only on another forum, but you seem to do the homework that all of us capper do, and as I said, I trully respect your opinion, right or wrong. I think tomorrow will be the dawgs barking, I just don't see Vegas letting the favs take the day again, I've been there done that. I wish you the best of luck and I believe you're a good capper.

~T~

 

[Kojak]

MistaFlava....Thanks for info as that does prove a lot.

Tmader....Thanks for words though I have stunk the place up last 6-7 weeks after great first half. Ready to take a break after tourney for pigskin as rarely bet on bases. BOL

 

[billhill999]

MistaFlava....Thanks for info as that does prove a lot.

Tmader....Thanks for words though I have stunk the place up last 6-7 weeks after great first half. Ready to take a break after tourney for pigskin as rarely bet on bases. BOL

KJ, was the time exactly 1 hour.
There are p.c's that haven't been adjusted yet (daylight savings time)

No play would be my call here, but I'm just an innocent bystander.

I love the bases btw, but that is hard capping work, but I enjoy it so much.

 

[tmader7]

If we all didn't have a bad day and "stink it up," Vegas wouldn't exist, LOL.

~T~

 

[Kojak]

billhill,
The problem is if we rule it a no play, we don't have the same number of picks. I believe if we ruled a no play and asked him to pick an extra game, it is an unfair advantage for him to pick a winner when in this case he obviously didn't. IMO if we rule it a tie, he gets away with an obvious attempt to cheat and isn't penalized. Regarding bases, I love the game of baseball as I even coach both my son's and daughter's team. Don't have enough time to cap. Second, I feel like I am cheating the game I love when I wager on it. It doesn't mean I haven't from time to time, but would rather be a fan than a gambler for bases. I play fantasy instead. BOL and continued success.

 

[billhill999]

Best of the fantasy bases
www.cdmsports.com

 

[Kojak]

I have played with them for a few years. Always look forward to the updates every year. Finished in Top 200 one year and all I got was like a free subscription to a magazine I never received so I didn't play with them last year.