Discussion: How do we fix the education system?

[KMAN]

Here's a new idea.....Instead of another one of those "bash the other side" threads let's discuss how to fix the education system.

If you have children in school, or have had children in school, do they go to a private or public school? What are/were some of the key factors that you use to decide where your child goes to school?

I have a 2 year old and have not decided whether we are going to go private or public. It sounds like the public schools are not as safe and children don't get as good of an education as they would at a private school.

I know this all depends on where you live but what does everyone think?

Here's something else to think about....What needs to be done to get public schools to be the school of choice instead of private schools?

 

[jointpleasures]

I'd break it down generally this way. Public schools are safe if you live in a county who elected Bush. If you live in a county who elected Gore expect the school to be the parents baby sitters while the parents stay at home collecting welfare and smokin crack. Come high school age, those baby sitting facilities will turn into mini prisons.

 

[jointpleasures]

The no child left behind act, if fully enforced, will have 14 year olds in first grade. Half the fourth graders would have full beards in the Gore counties and could play basketball better than the Georgetown team can now.

 

[wilheim]

.....Instead of another one of those "bash the other side" threads let's discuss how to fix the education system.

That did'nt take long to get blown out of the water.


wil.

BTW. KMAN good idea though.

 

[KMAN]

Living in Memphis, Tennessee, the public schools are not safe. I think we are going to be forced to put our son in a private school. A big problem that I see in public schools is no discipline. I remember growing up (I'm 31) and I was afraid of getting beat with a yardstick.....These days, the principle/teachers can't touch a student for fear of getting sued. Parent's would rather have their kids run wild than be punished. This teaches children that they don't need to be held responsible for their actions.

I guess it all comes back to, "should you be held accountable for your own actions"?

Jointpleasure is exactly right....In metropolitan areas like Memphis, public schools are baby sitters who can't discipline. That's a bad combo.

 

[JudgeWapner]

As a former educator let me just say,I haven't got a ****ing clue.What is need is to get the kids who don't want to learn out so those that want to can.No idea how to do this.

 

[Oceans11]

2 cents.

Kids will learn, if they have the right environment, but you need reasonable control of them to achieve that.

The ultimate authority, is violence, and all other authorities are derived from that.
This works for kids, adults, and dogs too.

In society, the Law, is backed up ultimately by the Police/Military who will basically bash your head in or shoot you when things get out of hand.

At the other end of the scale is the general minor discipline of the wider community that used to be an acceptable COLLECTIVE responsibility.
When I was a nipper, you got physical punishment if you stepped out of line.
Citizens intervening in situations until the Police turned up were relatively common.

In recent years, the responsibility of maintaining discipline has been taken out of the hands of the general community and has been made an illegal act.(ie you can't do anything, no matter who you are, teachers etc.)

In its place you have the Police and not much else, and they really only bother with the more extreme situations because they are hopelessly under resourced for minor collective infringements.

So the kids run wild, because there are no limits and no resources until they cause major problems.

This has a direct impact on education standards, especially at the more under resourced places.

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Many Moslem countries still have collective responsibility, where citizens can intervene directly, and they often do, in large numbers, until the police turn up.

In a place like Saudi, you can dump your bag on the street and go into a shop.
Come out 30 minutes later, and its still there.

Kuwait city has an open air gold market where huge amounts of chains/jewellery etc are hanging there in full open view. You can pick them up etc. (Its a real eye opener when you first see it, theres tons of the stuff on open stalls.)
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So IMO public/private is irrelevant.

Its whether there is a culture of reasonable discipline (when necessary) and collective responsibility.

The most important thing of all, that they all MUST learn, IMO, is decent reading and writing skills.

So even if you leave school as a muppet, you can progress seamlessly into adult/college learning courses if you get a brain later on in life.

 

[KMAN]

It sounds like we all agree that lack of discipline is a key factor in having a good school. That said, how did this lack of discipline come about? I assume it started with one parent getting pissed off because their child was punished.

Maybe we could have 2 types of schools, one for those parents who think bad behavior should be punished and one where bad behavior is not punished. I would definitely have my child in a school that believes in punishing bad behavior.

Now I know some of you are going to be saying "what if they punish my child unjustly?" There would be cameras in every class room and hallway to monitor everyone's activity. If the child is caught on camera doing something out of line he gets punished. It's as simple as that.

Would this not work?

 

[Slurpee]

Where I grew up the teachers could beat the shit out of you if you stepped out of line...I'll tell you one thing, I always had my homework done and I never showed up to school in green hair...and I wouldn't have it any other way for my child.

 

[xpanda]

Re: discipline in schools.

I have a few teacher friends who complain that kids, literally, will look at them and say you can't say that, or you can't do that ... kids have threatened to tell Children's Aid that a teacher touched them or some such thing.

This anti-spanking movement, originally not lacking in good intentions, has turned over the power from the adult to the child. It's up to the parents, in my opinion, to instill a sense of respect for elders in their children. When I was in school, I was never afraid of my teachers, but I knew I'd be in for it at home if I messed up.

That said, if I ever have kids, I'll be sending them to a public, albeit Catholic, school. Maybe our system is different here, but private schools are very much still for the elites, and I'd rather have to supplement their education than unlearn snobbery.

 

[KMAN]

After thinking about this 2 types of schools idea, I don't think that would work. The school of children who parents care would wind up supporting the children of the parents who don't care. Sort of like welfare now.

We have to figure out a way to get parents to care enough about their children to get them a good education.

I know about Bush's no child left behind plan.....Does anybody know what John Kerry is proposing?

 

[xpanda]

Isn't saying that children who's parents send them to a public school 'don't care' a little much? How common are private schools in the US for you to assert that? And just how bad is your education system, then?

 

[captain#5]

Make drugs LEGAL and let EVERY kid OVER 8 years old carry condoms and birth control devices.

 

[KMAN]

xpanda - I meant to say 2 types of public school. I think private schools are in good shape.

Does anyone have any good suggestions on how we can get parents to care about their children's education?

No offense but I don't think captain #5's ideas are going to work.

 

[Massmilwaukee]

I went to a preparatory school where you were given a choice if you stepped out of line. Call you parents while the "warden" sat next to you and explain everything that happened, or take a couple of licks from a paddle. I myself always opted to not call my parents.

 

[KMAN]

Does any Liberal know what John Kerry is proposing to fix the education problems?

 

[Sodium Pentethol V]

In the late 70's early 80's it was biased standardized testing.

In the 80's and 90's it was disproportionate $$$ spent per capita.

When do you figure to realize that dumb people have more kids than smart people and therefore the education system inevitably will have to cater to dumber and dumber people?



The education system is not broken, 50% of all math and science degrees are awarded to foreigners. We lead the world in educating our and other country's citizens.

You improve the education system by encouraging smart people to have children and dumb people not to, the direct inverse is what has led us to where we are now.

 

[KMAN]

Interesting point. I guess I kind of agree. The so called "Dumber" people that you talk about are the same people that don't care about education because their parents didn't care about education.

Does anyone know what John Kerry proposes to fix this?

 

[BuckFush]

The whole educational system went straight to hell when it was integrated and there's nothing anyone can do about it now.

 

[KMAN]

Buck - Don't you think that if we got parents to care about their child's education that that would be a good place to start?

The hard part is getting the parents to take responsibility.