I won't pile onto the other comments above. I won't be disrespectful.
So, with all due respect, you're waaaaaaay off on this.
Brady has made up for a lot of the flaws his teams have had over the year. Of course he needed Bill, but I think Bill has needed Brady more than the other way around. Brady had the inferior team against both the Falcons and Seahawks and still came out on top. Last year, he put up over 500 yards in the Super Bowl. It's not his fault that New England's defense got lit up by Nick Foles.
I'm a Cincinnati Bengals fan, so I feel like I'm impartial when talking about New England. There was a time when I thought they were fun to hate, and fun to hate Brady as well. But I've realized how truly great he is, and how we likely won't see anything like him for a long time to come. You're correct in that New England has been great for the last couple decades as a whole. But they're not even close to that dynasty without Brady. What he's doing at this age is just unheard of. You should appreciate him while he's here.
Ah, but in today's day and age 500 yards isn't as astounding as it used to (Foles put up a ton too). It's still impressive but he did fumble on the key down to lose the game against he Eagles.
I'll say it again, I'm not saying Brady isn't great but I'm saying he's not the GOAT and you take Rodgers or Peyton and Drew Brees, especially Rodgers when he was playing great back then and tell me with a straight face Rodgers doesn't win those same championships Brady did with those great Patriots teams of the past.
I'll give more credit to Peyton for carrying that weak Colts team. I'll give Rodgers more credit for winning with that lame coach and average team.
I'll repeat, I give Brady a ton of credit for things he's done but I will always give more credit to the team and system as a whole. I'll never forget Matt friggin Cassel coming in there winning 11 games and the 2 other qbs for a small stretch did well too.
He's very good and believe me it was fun watching him come back against the Falcons after the defense got the ball back for him. Nobody can ever convince me he's the goat.
Everything you said I've read, understood and noted. All good points. Fair enough. Thanks for posting without going off on me.
I agree this team is the weakest I've seen. If Brady pulls it off mad respect to him on top of everything else he's accomplished. I don't think he'll do it though.
I respect him for his intensity and competitive nature and he's great. I keep saying that. GOAT? No.
I don't know why Patriots fans go off at the mere mention of it. Even if you say he's great just not the GOAT. Wonder why it strikes a nerve? Maybe because deep down they know Rodgers would win just as much if not at least 1 more with those same teams.
Matt Cassell 11-5.
Now this season..ok this season Brady is in tough with this team. Gronk looks like a zombie out there like he's running with an anvil tied to him. Like a mummy or something. Edelman still good but not like he used to be. The defense? Not as good even though they had Steelers to a low point total. Yeah, he has his work cut out for him I admit that.
Peace.
bad christian.hypocrite zitfacepedoreligiousfreakbiblethumper is being a typical republicant....making things up as he goes to make his ''case'' Lol.
Cause he knows I'm drinking each time I post at night.
What do you bring to this forum other than tinfoil hat idiocy, bible thumping weirdness and copying and pasting or making shit up as you go? Lol. Nothing..
Shush()*
The GOAT argument isn’t about what you could or couldn’t have done in a hypothetical situation. It’s about what you actually did accomplish. No disrespect to guys like Brees, Manning, and Rodgers—because they are all great talents— but they’ve accomplished nowhere near what Brady has, and never will.
Who cares that Cassel did well one year? How do you know Brady wouldn’t have made them even better? He definitely would’ve
But that's what most of my argument is based on, the fact that Brady has had the way better teams in his early championships and hasn't done much since.
Did he have a weaker team than Seattle or Falcons? Maybe maybe not but him being the GOAT evens things up I would think. Yet he needed a miracle from Butler to save his ass and a huge collapse combined with his defense stepping up huge in the 4th to allow for his (admittedly) wicked come back. I'm not sold.
His teams and coach Bill I give immense credit to.
It is significant that Peyton and Rodgers had weaker teams back then and way worse coaches. Bill has stifled teams in the past and his defense was a large part of their success. Nowadays the defense and team overall isn't as great but Patriots haven't done much except for 2 what I'll call fluke wins. Then lost to Eagles with Foles. Yes Brady tore it up that game but so did Foles. End result was the Brady fumbled that game winning drive.
Brady alone didn't accomplish it. His team was a gigantic part of it. Whereas in Peyton and Rodger's case not only did they have to put the team on their back for the most part but (especially in Peyton's case) basically had to run the offense too cause of their weak coaching. It's a very difficult thing to do. Whereas in Brady's case he just has to go out there and execute the excellent game plan and system they've always had.
I've watched most of Brady's, Peyton's Rodgers' etc games throughout the years. I can't ever be convinced Brady's the GOAT.
He's great and I'll give him that. That's all.
It matters what Cassel did. Winning 11 games when we all know how much he sucks shows how great that team and coach Bill is. Would Patriots have won a couple more with Brady? Sure I'll concede that. It still doesn't take away from the fact that Matt Cassel sucks and had no business winning 11 games except for the fact that he was on the Patriots and had coach Bill. These are huge factors.
Brady has accomplished way more because he was in a way better situation. If you've watched Peyton play every game and how he carried his team season in season out you'd see how great he was. How many game winning drives he had with 2 or 3 minutes left and managed the clock so that the other team didn't get the ball back against his weak defense, calling plays, audible on offense. He had a lot of burden to carry cause of his weak coach. The guy was a surgical offensive mastermind that dissected defenses. He could only do so much with that coach and team though.
People say he choke in the playoffs but they never watch him carry that team to the playoffs in the first place. Brady had the biggest choke of all. Undefeated team, it was that damn good and he didn't win that Superbowl. That's huge. Should've won that game start to finish with how good that team was.
His entire argument is woulda, coulda, shoulda....that’s it.
Then he goes to Brady loss to this guy, so this other guy is better.
Its what ya do when you’re clearing losing the argument. But he keeps on with it.......
its the booze that gets him going on these rants I swear, unless he lives in some obscure time zone where posting between 1am-4am EST is the middle of the day for him.
Im guessing not.
Lol...if you think my whole argument is woulda shoulda coulda....then you can't read..lol.
Booze? What's this fascination you and your other tin foil hat republicant buddy have with booze? You guys have alcoholic fathers or something? So obsessed with that fantasy. Just make stuff up as you go...lol.
PATSfanatic defending the pats?! Shocker!!
Making shit up as you go?? Can't read? Lol. yeah you're credible...LOL.Lol...if you think my whole argument is woulda shoulda coulda....then you can't read..lol.
Booze? What's this fascination you and your other tin foil hat republicant buddy have with booze? You guys have alcoholic fathers or something? So obsessed with that fantasy. Just make stuff up as you go...lol.
PATSfanatic defending the pats?! Shocker!!
ointer:Lebron and Brady still beasts. No arguing that. Just not the GOATS.
Jordan better than Lebron. I always have to add that in...
Okay I've tired of this. I have never seen anybody convince the other of the debate we are having. Even hall of famers go at it on this topic and nobody changes their minds lol. It's all good.
I maintain my stance and Brady lovers maintain theirs. It's all good.
Jordan better than Lebron. I always have to add that in...
Okay I've tired of this. I have never seen anybody convince the other of the debate we are having. Even hall of famers go at it on this topic and nobody changes their minds lol. It's all good.
I maintain my stance and Brady lovers maintain theirs. It's all good.
I don't agree with this here post! Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers is the gooder quarterbacks because their players had smaller legs and hands than the other players. Also, these here quarterbacks had to carry these weaker players on their backs and it made life very difficult on them but they tried their bestest and still won the shiny prize against all odds.
This here was my bestest try at talking in your language and I hope to hear more from you you crackhead maniac hahahaha.
Nah really. Peace. Your opinion is much appreciated in this here thread. It's all good dude. Good luck this Sunday. Hoping to hit some winners. Going big. NFL almost over and the NBA is difficult as fuck!
cheersgif
Comparing LeBron and Brady illustrates a major hole in your argument. Brady is MJ, not LeBron.
I could argue LeBron is the better all around player than MJ (I believe he is), but MJ is the GOAT. You could make the hypothetical arguments for LeBron: What if he had better teammates? What if he had a better coach? What if MJ had to play the Warriors?
Did having lesser teams/bad coaching/tougher competition mean that LeBron had a harder path to accumulate championships? Yeah, most likely it did. But you play the hypothetical game. GOAT debates aren't about potential/talent and hypothetical results. GOAT debates are about what you actually accomplished. Brady has more rings than Rodgers, Brees, and Manning combined. And it's probably going to stay that way.
And for the record, I'm a diehard Cleveland Cavaliers fan, with and without LeBron. I've watched his whole career, and am incredibly thankful for what he's done for Ohio. Beating the Warriors in 2016 is my best professional sports memory ever as a fan. I think he is the most talented, well-rounded basketball player whose ever lived.
But MJ is the GOAT.
But I don't believe Lebron is the better all around player than Jordan. He's a beast yes but this guy played in the weak East and always needed bonafide established superstars Like Kyrie, Wade (who had already won a championship without Lebron) Love and meh Bosh.
Jordan did it with one team just like Kobe and won more rings.
This isn't a Jordan vs Lebron debate though. And I never compared Lebron to Brady. I was just saying they are both beasts. And that I don't believe they are the GOATS. Not comparing them to each other to make my point.
Lebron is a beast and he's a champion and probably one of the smartest bball players ever but he has needed more help than Jordan. Doesn't have the killer instinct like Jordan and Jordan would never be caught dead whining about needing help or passive aggressively weeding out players like he did many times most recently with Isaiah Thomas. This guy wouldn't have won without that mega star Kyrie and Wade and don't forget about that Ray Allen 3.
Now you'll point to Kerr and Pippen etc but it's not the same. Jordan stayed on the same team and made guys like Pippen. Lebron went from team to team and joined established mega stars.
I respect the hell out of Lebron carrying that utterly pathetic Cavs team way back to the finals when they got swept by one of my all time favorite teams the Spurs. That was an uncanny performance to come out of the East.
I'll admit I can see the argument for Lebron maybe being as good as Jordan. But Brady the GOAT? No. That Patriots team and coach Bill has way more to do with it than Brady being the GOAT. Brady only needed to be great (which he is) to win with those Pats teams not the GOAT (which he isn't)
But we will agree to disagree. I'm getting carpal tunnel syndrome haha.
I like Kobe and Jordan way better than Lebron. Never really thought Lebron had that killer instinct and don't like his passive aggressive nature. But he's the best player in the NBA right now and he is dominant and the smartest bball player in the league. Sure I give him props too.
It's not hypothetical to say Brady, 500 yards or not, fumbled that play to lose to the Eagles. It's not hypothetical to say Brady got his ass saved by Butler against Seattle and against Falcons his defense came through big to get him the ball. Again his team I give more credit to.
I know it's hypothetical but if those 2 miracles didn't happen by Butler and Pats defense Brady is in a lot of trouble with his legacy. Not to mention he will never be able to delete the footnotes of cheating on pretty much every article that will ever be written about his teams.
But why won't you acknowledge the way weaker team those guys had compared to Brady? These aren't hypothetical scenarios as you see it it's fact.
Have you seen those Colts teams play and watched Peyton game in game out carry them? Cover the defenses ass and hide their deficiency by masterful and methodical time chewing drives to end the game with a game winning td time in and time out? All this and more is the reason I don't see Brady as the Goat. Watched all these guys plays with those teams and see what they've done.
The caliber of teams is a huge part of the debate. It has to be. Not to mention the coaching. Coaches have huge impacts in football more than most sports in my opinion. Games are won and lost at times by coaching decisions and game plans. Another huge factor.
I've watched Brady too. I know he's great. I'll tap out though. Getting carpal.
Tapping out for now though haha. Gonna crash.
It is absolutely hypothetical to say that a player would've accomplished more if he had better surroundings. There is literally no evidence/facts to base that on.
How the hell would you know that? You wouldn't even know what the surroundings were, let alone if they'd be enough to topple Brady.
You mean how Peyton at the end of his career with a fantastic defense in Denver won the Superbowl? What do you mean hypothetical? It's common sense that if a great player had a better team he'd do even better. I don't see how that's a debate.
That's like me saying I can run faster without carrying a 50lb weight in my hands compared to with it.
The top 10 defenses Brady has always had and his coach, a beast on Gronk and many other factors that the others didn't have is a huge part of this debate. I don't know how anybody can deny that. I play sports. All sports.
See look what you got me doing. I can't stop replying.
I'M TAPPING OUT FOR NOW! Haha. Gotta actually catch some zzzs tonight and rejuvenate or I'm gonna burn out.
Peace.
