Cite this statement. And 75% isnt 70 and by the looks of things it sure as hell isnt shrinking anytime soon. The question becomes, do you really understand how this works? I mean seriously? For all our growth and all our success over the last 30 years we have seen the debt start an unstoppable spiral out of control and all you can point to is a number that has already been passed??
:lolBIG:
hno:We are just making the interest payments on the debt each year and the budget next year is going to be 500 billion in the red REGARDLESS of who is POTUS, and you think that is optimal? MJ, you like so many other so called "Republicans" are in dream land. I expect that from the Democrats because they look at life through an unobtainable and idealistic point of view. The Republicans used to be the "adults" and although we know the two party system is a sham, its never enough of a riot to watch you so called "fiscal conservatives" defend fiscal liberalism!!!!!!!!!!!!
the debt itself isn't a bad thing historically fletch
a high debt/GDP rate isn't a problem if american savings are backing the debt as we are investing in our future and those bonds will pay us money down the road
for instance i have some 30 year bonds that were given to me from relatives when i was born.....how many people in america do that sort of thing anymore today?
granted i'm not sure i would suggest it with all the problems we have long term
its who is funding the debt that is the problem
anyway i tried i'll let you two continue to bicker back and forth
a high debt/GDP rate isn't a problem if american savings are backing the debt as we are investing in our future and those bonds will pay us money down the road
for instance i have some 30 year bonds that were given to me from relatives when i was born.....how many people in america do that sort of thing anymore today?
granted i'm not sure i would suggest it with all the problems we have long term
its who is funding the debt that is the problem
anyway i tried i'll let you two continue to bicker back and forth
I think your missing the point. The more you have in debt eats away at the more you output, i mean its not that hard of a concept to understand. Every year you don't balance a budget, it gets dumped onto the National debt. Every time you bail someone out or send out a bone in the form of stimulus, same thing. So, as this TRENDS forward, it doesnt bode well for anyone. I get the savings aspect of things, but the reality is that savings was stripped away when the average american began consuming more then he could afford thus putting his desries on par with his needs. And furthermore, it doesnt matter if we were holding the debt as Americans if the debt starts to mount by the trillions each year. When social Securtiy and Medicade start crashing down, everyone will be hit underneath it, regardless if we have the debt or not.
Savings rate huh?
You mean that statistic that people stupidly throw around that doesn't even consider American's home ownership as investment or savings?
Owning the most valuable real estate on the planet isn't to be considered as savings or investment?
YOu need to think these things through on your own...just spouting the newspaper stories is what leads to this foolishness.
i'm just trying to explain the difference in era's and such
no country can survive without savings
if american's were funding this debt buying bonds this debt/GDP shit wouldn't be of issue
for instance my relatives bought 25 dollar bonds for 12.50 back in the day and are paying me out around 110 bucks today which i also have to pay taxes on
they invested 12.50 in the country.....granted inflation and all that comes into play....i get 110 bucks back down the road...and uncle sam gets a cut of the profits too via taxes....probably not a great deal for the average joe and woulda done better in the stock market since the late 70s even with the recent haircut....but we doing a good deed investing in our country
today japan, china, etc....are all doing that.....since they are happy to allow us to spend our way into debt while we buy up their exports
not american's
which is why we are doomed
and MJ
the rest of the world will be using this money to buy up america
no country can survive without savings
if american's were funding this debt buying bonds this debt/GDP shit wouldn't be of issue
for instance my relatives bought 25 dollar bonds for 12.50 back in the day and are paying me out around 110 bucks today which i also have to pay taxes on
they invested 12.50 in the country.....granted inflation and all that comes into play....i get 110 bucks back down the road...and uncle sam gets a cut of the profits too via taxes....probably not a great deal for the average joe and woulda done better in the stock market since the late 70s even with the recent haircut....but we doing a good deed investing in our country
today japan, china, etc....are all doing that.....since they are happy to allow us to spend our way into debt while we buy up their exports
not american's
which is why we are doomed
and MJ
the rest of the world will be using this money to buy up america
So your point is that the whole world is following voodoo economics?
All I can say is the whole world disagrees with you.
All that really matters is debt ratio and economic growth...it's been beyond your comprehension so far. Some day you will get it.
After WW-2, publicly held debt was 121% GDP; although the debt level has increased many times over since then, the debt ratio has dropped to 37.5% because of sixty years of economic growth.
It's not of issue....What issue...other than political scare mongering?
The higher defecits under Bush were easier to pay than the lower defecits under Clinton.
Bush tax cuts raised revenues and grew the economy that much....thats all that matters.
Grow or die. Same as it ever was.
using chinese and japanese savings to buy their manufactured goods (funded through welfare programs), fund wars, create big government inefficient government programs....and all the other shit government spends money on....is not a sustainable practice and will bring financial ruin to our country
not sure why this is hard to understand
as for investing in housing tell that to the people that "bought" (they didn't really buy it they put almost nothing down and many won't be able to pay it off and if they can they will be underwater and will turn out to be a really bad investment) a home in the last 4 years or so
not sure why this is hard to understand
as for investing in housing tell that to the people that "bought" (they didn't really buy it they put almost nothing down and many won't be able to pay it off and if they can they will be underwater and will turn out to be a really bad investment) a home in the last 4 years or so
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using chinese and japanese savings to buy their manufactured goods (funded through welfare programs), fund wars, create big government inefficient government programs....and all the other shit government spends money on....is not a sustainable practice and will bring financial ruin to our country
not sure why this is hard to understand
as for investing in housing tell that to the people that "bought" (they didn't really buy it they put almost nothing down and many won't be able to pay it off and if they can they will be underwater and will turn out to be a really bad investment) a home in the last 4 years or so
Buying cheaper goods from the lowest cost manufacturers is the smartest thing any economy can do.
Capital flows to lowest cost producer...period.
Anything else is artificial and has consequences that you don't even talk about.
As for housing...please...don't try to dismiss the whole US housing market based on cherry picking worst cases from the bubble.
It's not truthful or fair to 90% of Americans.
i agree
but we aren't buying their goods with our incomes and than stashing away say 8% of our incomes into savings or government bonds or whatever.....
we are buying them with debt or buying them beyond our income and not saving enough money for out long term future.....
and alot of debt to buy this shit on the consumer side was funded on tapping equity of overpriced homes like an ATM which was an unsustainable boom
debt parties can't last forever and they end badly
the debt party is ending.....
if american's were spending gobs of money on chinese and japanese goods with their incomes and than still having 8-10% left to throw into savings, stocks, bonds etc.....everything would be fine and dandy
anyway its pointless with you not sure why i bother
but we aren't buying their goods with our incomes and than stashing away say 8% of our incomes into savings or government bonds or whatever.....
we are buying them with debt or buying them beyond our income and not saving enough money for out long term future.....
and alot of debt to buy this shit on the consumer side was funded on tapping equity of overpriced homes like an ATM which was an unsustainable boom
debt parties can't last forever and they end badly
the debt party is ending.....
if american's were spending gobs of money on chinese and japanese goods with their incomes and than still having 8-10% left to throw into savings, stocks, bonds etc.....everything would be fine and dandy
anyway its pointless with you not sure why i bother
Its called fractional reserve banking and yes its very much Voodoo, because its, not real. Its not tangible. Banks just creating money from nothing isn't natural. If you dont understand this then there is no help for you. And you can point to the last 70 years all you want fella.... but how long can it last?
:lolBIG:
oh its real fletch
and those in debt gonna feel the wrath like no other
if they manage to save it like they did in the 30s.....and i'm almost sure they will
hyperinflation is the end game fletch....they not gonna let that happen....they got it damn good...and want to keep it that way
deflation just a natural process when their system's inflation and debt gets too outta hand and unsustainable near term....and they have to go into system shutdown/save mode
thus all the banking nationalization and all the other shit you are seeing....
and those in debt gonna feel the wrath like no other
if they manage to save it like they did in the 30s.....and i'm almost sure they will
hyperinflation is the end game fletch....they not gonna let that happen....they got it damn good...and want to keep it that way
deflation just a natural process when their system's inflation and debt gets too outta hand and unsustainable near term....and they have to go into system shutdown/save mode
thus all the banking nationalization and all the other shit you are seeing....
oh its real fletch
and those in debt gonna feel the wrath like no other
if they manage to save it like they did in the 30s.....and i'm almost sure they will
hyperinflation is the end game fletch....they not gonna let that happen....they got it damn good...and want to keep it that way
deflation just a natural process when their system's inflation and debt gets too outta hand and unsustainable near term....and they have to go into system shutdown/save mode
thus all the banking nationalization and all the other shit you are seeing....
If you think short term deflation is whats going on, then i count argue that, but hyperinflation is coming at some point. I agree with your sentiments i see hyperinflation being the end game as well, at some point all the socialization wont be enough to prop this pig up. But to say that this fractional reserve banking is real is foolish. Although, I think your talking about real in terms of its happening, but im talking about real as in tangible in that its sustainable. The reality is anytime you create 10X the amount of something with the click of a button, its never real...its just a matter of how much debt you can saddle the public/goverment with and i dont see that being plausible down the road.
i'm saying its real in that 95% of americans (and everybody worldwide for that matter) maybe higher don't have a fuckin clue what the intrinsic value of a fiat dollar really is
as long as they keep the faith and its all about the benjamins and fiat dollars are the excepted medium of exchange in the economy the system survives
people now that they getting scared about the economic gloom aren't hoarding gold (some are not many) they are hoarding dollars
as long as they ensure that bank accounts are safe, MM funds are safe etc....the flight to gold is limited
as long as they keep the faith and its all about the benjamins and fiat dollars are the excepted medium of exchange in the economy the system survives
people now that they getting scared about the economic gloom aren't hoarding gold (some are not many) they are hoarding dollars
as long as they ensure that bank accounts are safe, MM funds are safe etc....the flight to gold is limited
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 10"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 10"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRHSM%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com
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lace>US</st1lace></st1:country-region> gov has been on a mission of currency-devaluing policies you will lose you ass through inflation. Most people try to push this notion that investing in commodities is somehow "unamerican" because you’re not eating up their bullshit in the form of <st1:country-region><st1lace>US</st1lace></st1:country-region> treasury paper, and stocks. What’s unAmericana <st1:stockticker>IMO</st1:stockticker> is the government not having the gumption or even the know how to do whats right and that is to take the bullet now so that the damage would be lesser in the end game. But no.... lets FUCKING CONTINUE this stupefying abyss with more rot as we wait for the next round of upswing as the market will rally again and put up even more false wealth. In the end commodities are the only real guardian of wealth. It’s like my belief in GOD. I’m not a Christian and i think all religious institutions are just crowd control, and crutches for the weak. I know not popular opinions but they are mine nonetheless and i dont apologize for them. So with that being said, i find it much more logical to invest in tangible wealth rather the human confidence...or faith. Just like religion I don’t put too much confidence in things I can’t touch or feel. Because that is exactly what you are doing in a fiat monetary system and that is exactly is what you’re doing with US stocks
<META content=Word.Document name=ProgId><META content="Microsoft Word 10" name=Generator><META content="Microsoft Word 10" name=Originator><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRHSM%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:smarttagtype name="stockticker" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com
But you did just buy a new auto?
One of the worst depreciating assets around.:think2:
So...as is usually the case...people have all these political ideas to hit people over the head with...but...you are really no different than the people you call brain dead.
And you enjoy using the system you rail on... to make your own life better...just like everybody does.
Kind of like Al Gore living in that 30.000 sq. ft mansion I guess.
