Crazy ending to Reds game

[ML Dog]

Not even close to true. Force outs NEVER become timing plays. The reason it would have been a timing play is because they tagged 2nd base first.

True. IMO at least. As is jazzlover's input w/ Dead Ball true as well but lets pretend no Dead Ball was involved here, for the sake of Clarity. When the runner from 3rd touches Home Plate the game is over. Rule states the runner going to 1st has to touch that base as well, to make it officially over which makes sense.

Imagine Bases Loaded Tie Game 1 out Bottom of 9th Bloop to mid infield 2nd Baseman gloves and, feeling he can get the Double Play better than throwing Home for the Force there, touches 2nd Base for a forceout then throws to 1st where the ball bounces in the dirt then off the 1st Baseman's glove into the air runner from 3rd touches Home Plate before 1st Baseman retrieves the ball but when he does runner going to 1st is jumping in the air (on the In-Play side of the 1st Base/Right Field Line) so he tags him out.

Does the run count and the game is over? I think so. Because the run scored before the Double Play was accomplished.

Toss out the Dead Ball and this scenario is exactly the same. The DBack's guys did not "screw up" as has been suggested. Per the rule when Home Plate was touched by that runner from 3rd and 1st Base was touched by the hitter...the game was over and there was no need for those guys to touch 2nd and 3rd, respectively.

 

[Illini]

True. IMO at least. As is jazzlover's input w/ Dead Ball true as well but lets pretend no Dead Ball was involved here, for the sake of Clarity. When the runner from 3rd touches Home Plate the game is over. Rule states the runner going to 1st has to touch that base as well, to make it officially over which makes sense.

Imagine Bases Loaded Tie Game 1 out Bottom of 9th Bloop to mid infield 2nd Baseman gloves and, feeling he can get the Double Play better than throwing Home for the Force there, touches 2nd Base for a forceout then throws to 1st where the ball bounces in the dirt then off the 1st Baseman's glove into the air runner from 3rd touches Home Plate before 1st Baseman retrieves the ball but when he does runner going to 1st is jumping in the air (on the In-Play side of the 1st Base/Right Field Line) so he tags him out.

Does the run count and the game is over? I think so. Because the run scored before the Double Play was accomplished.

Toss out the Dead Ball and this scenario is exactly the same. The DBack's guys did not "screw up" as has been suggested. Per the rule when Home Plate was touched by that runner from 3rd and 1st Base was touched by the hitter...the game was over and there was no need for those guys to touch 2nd and 3rd, respectively.

I honestly don't think there is a rule for a bases loaded one out double play from 3rd to 2nd. It's probably never happened in the history of baseball, and all baseball rules evolved from rare scenarios that almost never come up, so they decide and make a rule for the next time it happens. Pretty sure that two forceouts would end the inning with no runs, but that may not necessarily be the case, since the batter reaches. After considering this, I don't know the answer. Regardless, once the out at 2nd is made, all forceouts except the batter no longer exist, so the run has to count here.

 

[Illini]

True. IMO at least. As is jazzlover's input w/ Dead Ball true as well but lets pretend no Dead Ball was involved here, for the sake of Clarity. When the runner from 3rd touches Home Plate the game is over. Rule states the runner going to 1st has to touch that base as well, to make it officially over which makes sense.

Imagine Bases Loaded Tie Game 1 out Bottom of 9th Bloop to mid infield 2nd Baseman gloves and, feeling he can get the Double Play better than throwing Home for the Force there, touches 2nd Base for a forceout then throws to 1st where the ball bounces in the dirt then off the 1st Baseman's glove into the air runner from 3rd touches Home Plate before 1st Baseman retrieves the ball but when he does runner going to 1st is jumping in the air (on the In-Play side of the 1st Base/Right Field Line) so he tags him out.

Does the run count and the game is over? I think so. Because the run scored before the Double Play was accomplished.

Toss out the Dead Ball and this scenario is exactly the same. The DBack's guys did not "screw up" as has been suggested. Per the rule when Home Plate was touched by that runner from 3rd and 1st Base was touched by the hitter...the game was over and there was no need for those guys to touch 2nd and 3rd, respectively.

In your scenario, no the run would not count. A force tag is the same as a forceout.

 

[ML Dog]

In your scenario, no the run would not count. A force tag is the same as a forceout.

If so, and that Run would not count illini that'd be totally mindblowing.

Cuz the ball which would have gotten the 2nd out and ended the inning is propelled up into the air after deflecting off 1st Basmen's glove....before it comes back down a runner has touched home and another has touched 1st.

Game should be over. The Ball was still "live". While up in the air. And those runners touched Home and 1st as required of them. Well before any "Double Play" got accomplished.

Ball comes down, gets retrieved by 1st baseman who then tags a celebrating runner whose celebrating has taken him onto the field (so he's crossed the 1st Base/Right Field placing him as though with intentions to go to 2nd thus able to be tagged out) but the 1st Baseman's tag comes literally WAY after the winning run has scored....a long time after that runner has crossed the plate.

Per my understanding of this rule being debated here illini in my scenario runner has touched Home, the other has touched First prior to Double Play being accomplished so Game ends.

Ump calls it otherwise and there'd be massive bellyaching. Not unlike there was here only worse.

 

[Illini]

If so, and that Run would not count illini that'd be totally mindblowing.

Cuz the ball which would have gotten the 2nd out and ended the inning is propelled up into the air after deflecting off 1st Basmen's glove....before it comes back down a runner has touched home and another has touched 1st.

Game should be over. The Ball was still "live". While up in the air. And those runners touched Home and 1st as required of them. Well before any "Double Play" got accomplished.

Ball comes down, gets retrieved by 1st baseman who then tags a celebrating runner whose celebrating has taken him onto the field (so he's crossed the 1st Base/Right Field placing him as though with intentions to go to 2nd thus able to be tagged out) but the 1st Baseman's tag comes literally WAY after the winning run has scored....a long time after that runner has crossed the plate.

Per my understanding of this rule being debated here illini in my scenario runner has touched Home, the other has touched First prior to Double Play being accomplished so Game ends.

Ump calls it otherwise and there'd be massive bellyaching. Not unlike there was here only worse.

I guess I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. If the batter touches first and is safe then yes the game is over. If it's a wild throw that pulls the 1st baseman off the bag and he tags for the out instead of tagging the base, then the run doesn't count.

 

[ML Dog]

I guess I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. If the batter touches first and is safe then yes the game is over. If it's a wild throw that pulls the 1st baseman off the bag and he tags for the out instead of tagging the base, then the run doesn't count.

Oh No, not a tag out prior to runner making it to 1st but a tag out after he has made it and errantly crosses the line so places his self able to be tagged out. I was merely trying to present an example so people could see why this play wasn't as "crazy" as it seemed. And why the DBacks weren't presented a gift. The Game was over. Dudes didn't need to touch 2nd and 3rd.