Confiscating Bonuses - Rules are unfair to the Players

[jdjohn]

Who defines what a "pro" is anyway? Someone who wins a lot? I guess the theory of the books is, "We want you to win, but not too much." Or conversely, "We want you to lose - a lot." It's a risky business for both parties - operator and bettor. If either one is not willing to take on the risk, then they shouldn't be involved in the business.

Regarding the bonuses, I could understand not allowing the bonus amount itself to be withdrawn (i.e., leaving at least that much in the account). But a bettor should be able to withdraw their deposit at any time; again, down to the amount of the bonus.

The only plus, even if you have to eventually forfeit the bonus, is that you can use it as leverage on your bets in the beginning. If I get a $500 bonus to start, then get say, two winners off of it for $1,000, then it's still worth it initially.

 

[Halifax]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jdjohn:
Regarding the bonuses, I could understand not allowing the bonus amount itself to be withdrawn (i.e., leaving at least that much in the account). But a bettor should be able to withdraw their deposit at any time; again, down to the amount of the bonus.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're interested in your book being able to pay you if you win, this will never happen.

Do the math - no book will stay in business if they allow this.

 

[TheGeneral+]

I do not think there is any question when some shops put that rule up on their site, they know exactly what their intentions are. If a player comes in and meets the rollover while winning money and then requests a payout in full, they have a choice as to whether honoring the bonus. It should not be subjective. It should be reality that one is owed his or her money on request.

 

[Halifax]

By the way General, I agree with you.

Once a book enters into an agreement involving a bonus, they should live up to it. After all, rightly or wrongly, the bonus was probably a big part of the reason why the customer signed up with the book in the first place.

Kick the guy out after the rollover, or deny him any future bonuses, but I don't think a book should be able to unilaterally decide, in the middle of a rollover, that a bettor is not eligible for the bonus. Beverly Hills Bookie is one book in particular that I recall doing this - they posted about it several months ago.

 

[Rogthedodger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TwoCard:
If the bonuses did not exist I would rarely try a new place to wager.

Just play at the real solid two or three books.

Krogers' offers coupons for the same reason - get people in the door.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% true for me too. If all books were vanilla reduced juice, why would I ever play at any places other than the top places?

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

I agree Rog, that's fine. I think the intent of this is to be aware as a player, seems lately we have gotten a few questionable "bonus confiscations" from books who extend these things. All's well and fine until the player wins, then he's a pro and the bonus is withdrawn. I don't care for this - We reserve the right to revoke bonuses on professional players. Seems too subjective to me. Just like the inactive rule. We took it back because the account wasn't active enough? What? At the very least define what an active account is, define what a professional is. Then if a player doesn't like the rules they have the right to not play there. However to have these rules that only apply when you win are not good for any of us in the industry Just my 2 cents.

BTW good to see you sir.

 

[Rogthedodger]

Understood Pat---I was going off on a tangent responding to the other comments about ending bonuses. I intentionally didn't comment on the revoking bonuses issue because I totally agree with you guys and think that it's a total no-brainer: if the rules are followed, a book must honor the bonus. Period.

 

[jwunderdog]

I am assuming that this "Pro Rule", has come up recently? who are the books and circumstances?

 

[jdjohn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jdjohn:
Regarding the bonuses, I could understand not allowing the bonus amount itself to be withdrawn (i.e., leaving at least that much in the account). But a bettor should be able to withdraw their deposit at any time; again, down to the amount of the bonus.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Halifax:
If you're interested in your book being able to pay you if you win, this will never happen.

Do the math - no book will stay in business if they allow this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Halifax, you are right. I guess I tried to be too broad in my original statement. My real point is that it seems unreasonable to have to rollover deposit plus bonus multiple times before even being allowed to get back your original deposit. Winnings and bonus can stay awhile longer, but I would think after risking your initial deposit once, you should be able to at least get that back (assuming a winner). Of course, the books want to hold the deposits since they are REAL cash as opposed to winnings and bonuses which are just pseudo cash for the players. They make a lot more money off of players losing bets than from interest on deposits.

 

[SrMuny]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by areeff:
You think this is bad?

Online casinos will steal your DEPOSIT, BONUS and WINNINGS if they think you are a professional player or an educated gambler. The worst part about it is neurotic narcissistic attention whores like bryan bailey at http://www.casinomeister.com support this kind of crap and pretend to be "player advocates". Julie sidwell of gambling.com's gambling grumbles was the same way.

To give you an example. Let's say a sportsbook had a 10% bonus but it said "no parlays" (why they would do this is beyond the point but it happens in casinos) and you deposit 100.00 and get a 10.00 bonus and lay it all down on a 4 teamer for nfl and you win. Now they would have the right to void your winning 4 teamer because you got a 10.00 bonus and in that bonus it said no parlays if sportsbooks were like casinos. Some online casinos even say "no bingo". And if you play bingo even ONE CARD many online casinos will steal your deposit, winnings, AND bonus.

And it gets even worse!!!

Let's say an online casino sends you a promotional code but they dont say its new user only right up front but in some backdoor fine print its there. You claim the code and win several thousand dollars and they'll once again steal your deposit, bonus AND winnings even if the bonus is 10.00 they'll steal several thousand because you didn't follow some fine print rule.

And guess who agrees with all of this? Former gambling.com "player advocate" Julie Sidwell and another devil wearing a blue dress "player advocate" Bryan Bailey. These people are scum.

So thank goodness books are in far better shape than casinos. It's probably because it requires more solvency to be in business and it's less turnkey.

One last note. A sponsor here http://www.bodog.com was and probably still is using proven-rigged casino software provider GSS. GSS allows the operator to set table and poker games to payout a certain %, much like slots which is unquestionably immoral and even criminal. So the RX is complicit, possibly ignorantly in these criminal acts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hard to understand people who play in ONLINE CASINOS

 

[SrMuny]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patrick McIrish:
I agree with General here. It pisses me off for books to offer up deals to get you to play and then portray you as a pro in order to keep your bonus later.:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BOOKS HATE WINNERS, It's that simple. I mean the only time youll ever read about this stuff, is when it happens to a winner. SAD REALLY IS.

 

[TheGeneral+]

Sad reality Sr Muny.

 

[skirmish]

Sr Muny .



Books do not hate winners providing they are getting 2 way action .

Question for you Sir .

If the business is volume oriented and they get 2 way action then why would they hate winners ?

[This message was edited by skirmish on October 22, 2003 at 05:30 PM.]

 

[schenley88]

Sportsbetting.com gives you the bonus for free when you open an account. No Questions asked and they let you withdraw it right away.

 

[SrMuny]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by skirmish:
Sr Muny .



Books do not hate winners providing they are getting 2 way action .

Question for you Sir .

If the business is volume oriented and they get 2 way action then why would they hate about winners ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trust me. MOST BOOKS want losers only. They are in it to make a buck. They dont need 2way action as you put it.

The BONUS offers are to attract RECREATIONAL GAMBLERS, who have lost at one book, and need to re-up.

Beleive what ya want, but the majority of the BOOKS OFFSHORE want JOE PUBLIC PLAYERS.....

 

[skirmish]

Sr Muny .

With the greatest respect I fully understand what you are saying .

However if a Book really knows how to Book games and do not move on air and clone lines ( which many do) then there is plenty of money to be made providing they are getting 2 way action purely because of the juice and high volume involved.

 

[jdjohn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sportsbetting.com gives you the bonus for free when you open an account. No Questions asked and they let you withdraw it right away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the contrary, schenley, sportsbetting.com requires you to roll the deposit plus the bonus 3X. Scroll down to "The Fine Print" section after clicking on "Free Cash". No really, it's actually called The Fine Print.

 

[SrMuny]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by skirmish:
Sr Muny .

With the greatest respect I fully understand what you are saying .

However if a Book really knows how to Book games and do not move on air and clone lines ( which many do) then there is plenty of money to be made providing they are getting 2 way action purely because of the juice and high volume involved.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AGREE with ya. But it just inst the case anymore. Its all about the QUID, hence all the problems whenn sharp players sing up for the BONUS, meet ALL the requirements and still get hassled when they try to take it out. SAD aint it.

 

[schenley88]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jdjohn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sportsbetting.com gives you the bonus for free when you open an account. No Questions asked and they let you withdraw it right away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the contrary, schenley, sportsbetting.com requires you to roll the deposit plus the bonus 3X. Scroll down to "The Fine Print" section after clicking on "Free Cash". No really, it's actually called The Fine Print.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just remembered I deposited a small amount when I opened the account and made bigger deposits with no bonus afterwards. But they do withdraws in a timely manner and they're free.

 

[skirmish]

Sr Muny .

Glad to see the QUID is still going and it AINT all Euros yet .