capping the nfl preseason part2

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let me start by saying their is alot of good info in part 1.

lets start with game 1 hall of fame weekend

aug 2 sat 5am est espn

nyjets vs tampa bay japan

lets start with camp openings
tampa will be opening on july 18th
jets will be opening july 21

3 day adv tampa
imo a 3 day adv at the begining of training camp will be a adv only because the game will be in japan and travel will cut into pratice time.
the adv will not show up as much in the 1st teams play as it will in the time the secound and third tream players get at pratice.

tampa has a slight avd in the # of players with players of more than 2 years exp

I will go more into match ups later

but would like to touch on the qbs even before the rotation comes out

the jets have 5 qbs coming into camp. so I think chad and vinny will see only action in the first qt maybe 1 series in the 2nd qt

this will leave 2 year man todd woodberry out of winston salem

to share time with 2 rookies

blackwell out of s. fla
bollinger out of wisc

for tampa

brad johnson some of the first qt

then a interesting battle of vet qbs for the backup spot

jim miller is slotted at #2 right now(bears)

and shawn king long time buc vet

chis simms texas mopp up

we will see how it stacks up for sure when the qb rotations come out

more later

good luck

panther
 

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team weakness

tampa 1st team solid

2nd team offence
left side of offence line

center jason suckanec 1 year byu
lg sean mahan rookie nd
lt lance himmo rookie w. va

def
lde dewayne white rookie louisville
wlb justin smith 1 year indiana

ny jets

1st team
def
ldt dewayne robertson rookie kentucky

2nd team
off
lg dave youanovits rookie temple
rt will ofenheusle rookie tenn
fb bj askew rookie mich
def
ldt salem simon 1 year nw
lde matt walters rookie miami
fs derek pagel rookie iowa

we find out that tampa left off line 2nd team is weak but that is countered by a weak 2nd team def on the left side

this info will help in later games but not much in this game

the real weakness that stands out in this match up is on the jets team with a rookie starting at ldt, a rookie fullback(false starts, missed autos and missed blocks)and free safety mainly run support or missed cover out of the backfeild

ok guys thats enought for tonight

panther
 
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I'd take Tampa. Gruden will have a grip on his boys by the nutsack, but the Jet players will all be hammered on sake and tired from banging japanese whores into the morning come game day. I'm seeing a 49-10 blow-out here! $$$ take it to the bank.
 

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guys

has anyone seen any posted preseason line yet

I have not

thanks

panther
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panther:
guys

has anyone seen any posted preseason line yet

I have not

thanks

panther<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Panther-
5dimes has had the first 2 games up for a few days now

101 8/2/03 5:00 AM EST
NY JETS +3 TAMPA BAY -3
102 Over 33 -110 Under 33 -110

103 8/4/03 8:00 PM EST
KANSAS CITY +1½ GREEN BAY -1½
104 Over 35½ -110 Under 35½ -110
 

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drunk guy

thanks for the info.I only checked the couple offshore books I have accounts with. do most of my betting local.

good luck

panther
 

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Panther: I know its not a large enough sample to indicate a trend, but how about the fact that Gruden was in two early preseason games in his career and won them both. His team averaged 20 points per game. I think it indicates he wants to win.
ESQAJM
 

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Hope this helps?

Never Too Early --
Preseason Research
Wagering on preseason games may be seen as risky by many, but what if teams with lousy previous year performance are more interested in posting some wins in pre-season than teams coming off strong seasons?


Part I -- Preseason "GAP" comparisons
It's some months until the 2003 pre-season games kick off, but it's a good time to be rolling out some research on how one might try to tackle betting on these games where, to paraphrase Charles Dickens, "There was everything at stake, there was nothing at stake."
The first thing that came to mind when we thought about this thorny issue -- since our approaches for the regular season, heavily dependent on statistical analysis, don't seem likely to do the job for the scrimmages -- is grouping team's by their prior season records. The theory here is that teams with lousy previous year performance might be more interested in posting some W's in pre-season, whereas the teams coming off strong seasons could really care less about the outcome of the exhibitions.

Pulling our quantifying motivation table structure out of the subscriber area, we elected to categorize teams as follows:

Good -- teams with a 10 or more wins in the prior regular season
Average -- teams with 7 to 9 wins
Poor -- teams with less than 7 wins
Running these guidelines through all the pre-season match-ups for the period of 1997-2002 (eg a six year span) produced the following results:

Home Team Away Team Won
(vs Spr) Lost
(vs Spr) Home
W%
Good Good 18 19 48 %
Good Average 18 17 51 %
Good Poor 18 22 45 %
Average Good 20 19 51 %
Average Average 26 17 60 %
Average Poor 8 28 22 %
Poor Good 14 15 48 %
Poor Average 19 26 42 %
Poor Poor 20 26 43 %

The pairing that jumps off the page is of course the "Average home team vs Poor away team" match-up, where remarkably the poor team has covered 78% of the time (28-8)! That's certainly an unlikely record based strictly on randomness, but how to explain such an extreme mark? The average teams may overlook a lowlier opponent, while the poor side might feel a win to be a mark of improvement to the next level in the NFL scheme...eg "if we are going to move up this season, we'll need to knock off teams like X."

Now, we noticed this trend prior to the 2002 season exhibitions (you might say this is "preseason research revisited") when it was 24-6 from 1997 to 2001, and it produced a solid 4-2 mark on "live games" last year. So, we'll keep a close eye on when this situation arises in 2003 scrimmages.

Average home teams have had the better of it against average opponents, but this pattern was 2-2 in 2002 and at 60% over 43 games doesn't give a huge measure of confidence. A case could be made that lines are under-stated in pre-season and a match-up between two average sides might be an instance where the home team does make more of an effort.

The next thing you might say is, well what about breaking it out by the specific weeks (conventionally labeled week "zero" to week four)? The drawback to this is our already small sample size gets even smaller, but we went ahead and ran it anyway and rather than give you the full tables, we'll summarize the interesting findings:

Week 1 - Poor prior season teams were 1-11 against the spread at home against poor or average away teams from '97-01 and 1-3 in 2002!
Week 2 - Poor prior season teams were an amazing 22-6 (78%) versus the line against good or average teams from '97-01 and 4-2 in 2002. Interestingly the poor sides are especially strong as road warriors, 14-1 versus good/average home teams.

Week 3 - In what some people consider the most serious week of play, poor teams have struggled at home against average/good teams, mustering a 4-14 record as the superior teams "come to play."

Week 4 - nothing stands out as too strong.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another area to explore is favorites/dogs. The following table reflects games where the home team was favored by three or more points (eg at least a field goal) --


Home Team Away Team Won
(vs Spr) Lost
(vs Spr) Home
W%
Good Good 12 16 42 %
Good Average 16 12 57 %
Good Poor 16 21 43 %
Average Good 6 8 42 %
Average Average 18 8 69 %
Average Poor 7 22 24 %
Poor Good 2 4 33 %
Poor Average 8 14 36 %
Poor Poor 11 16 40 %

We already know about the Average-Poor clashes, but of interest is that Average teams at home favored by a field goal are a more than respectable 18-8 against the line versus average away teams (including 2-0 last year). note is that Poor teams at home favored by 3+ points are a mediocre 21-34 or 38% (and 5-8 in 2002) suggesting that the public may be overplaying the "they will want the win more" sentiment. For those wondering whether "home dogs" have the same value in pre-season that they do in the regular season, the quick answer is no: home teams getting 3+ points are 17-15.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, we know that a lot of people are looking to play the over/under totals as well, so running the same "GAP" breakouts but against the total instead of the spread, we arrive at the following:


Home Team Away Team Over Under Over %
Good Good 18 19 48 %
Good Average 17 16 51 %
Good Poor 20 20 50 %
Average Good 15 22 40 %
Average Average 22 21 51 %
Average Poor 20 15 57 %
Poor Good 14 14 50 %
Poor Average 25 20 55 %
Poor Poor 24 22 52 %

No category in the above seems strong enough to really warrant further investigation.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We believe some of the GAP data conclusions are worth looking for in the 2003 action --

Play POOR away teams against AVERAGE home teams
Play AGAINST Poor home teams in week one versus AVERAGE/POOR away teams
Play POOR teams in week two against GOOD/AVERAGE opponents, particularly on the road
In week three, Lean to AVERAGE/GOOD home teams on the road against prior year POOR teams
Lean to AVERAGE home teams when they are favored by 3+ points against AVERAGE away teams
Lean AGAINST Poor home teams when they are favored by 3+ points
 

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esq

yes I beleive that gruden beleive in setting the tone in camp with a 1 week preseason win.

I also think this is shown by reporting to camp a full 3 days before the jets take the feild

thanks and good luck

panther
 

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winbet

good point and something I look at esp with teams that home games are not sold out.

and thanks you have gave me and everyone some angles to research

good post

good luck

panther
 

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Now THAT is REAL info people can use! Thanks man!
1036316054.gif
 

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Now don't everybody freak out here. All I'm doing is asking a question.

The guys you have listed as the second string offensive line for Tampa are not listed as second stringers on the Tampa Bay depth chart on NFL.com. I just want to know where you got that information so I can look at it myself. Thanks.

Big Lou
 

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A few more points to ponder:
1. Gruden is 2-0 in hall of fame week games.
2. Herman Edwards is 7-1 in preseason.
3. Despite the fact that this is a preseason game, the Bucs are the SB winners, and this game is on national TV - so you can expect the Jets to play hard.
4. The focus for the Jets will be on offense and sp teams play, since they were decimated in the off season by free agent desertions. The Jets depth charts are very deep indeed - Herman will be very busy evaluating players - and many of those players will be motivated to play hard in hopes of landing a position on the team.
5. The Bucs roster has barely changed - Gruden might want to win the game - but will the players hearts be into it, or will they be more worried about getting injured playing a game that means nothing.

Good luck!
 

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Panther - good stuff man, thanks. I am pretty certain though that Miller is not healthy. I will check and come back and correct this if I am wrong. I left my paper in the car but will look this afternoon. Anyway thanks for kicking off the new year in a positive way. Good luck this year.
 

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