>There is a difference between the two.
I rest my case... You're very foolish
[This message was edited by FatFrank on 04-08-03 at 04:05 PM.]
I rest my case... You're very foolish
[This message was edited by FatFrank on 04-08-03 at 04:05 PM.]
Nigger Nigger: Hate Crimes and Lenny Bruce
by Russell Madden
Last summer, singer and sometimes actor, Jennifer Lopez, got into trouble for using the word "nigger" in one of her songs. Some blacks were outraged at her temerity and insensitivity. Others cared less whether she included the word in her lyrics.
On a regular basis, Mark Twain's classic novel, Huckleberry Finn, is targeted for removal from high school libraries. The constant use by Huck of "nigger" sets the hackles on the easily offended. Ignoring the context in which Twain wrote the book; ignoring the fact that Huckleberry Finn is a profoundly anti-racist story; and ignoring Twain's personal commitment to bettering the situation of blacks in this country, the would-be censors denounce Twain in no uncertain terms and seek to yank the book from shelves. Mustn't pollute the minds of the young'uns, must we, with anything remotely controversial or thought-provoking?
Detective Mark Fuhrman's testimony in the O. J. Simpson murder trial was dismissed as part of a racist plot against an innocent man when a tape conversation proved his denial of ever uttering the word "nigger" was a lie.
Harvard law professor, Randall Kennedy, published a book in January of this year entitled, Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word. This book tackles the checkered history of what has become the quintessential racial slur in this country . . . at least if uttered by whites. In the 1600's, "nigger" had no particular opprobrium attached to it. By the early 1800's, however, that had changed. Today, it has become the Word-That-Must-Never-Be-Said.
A recent episode of the television show, "Boston Public," explored what happens when "nigger" enters a high school classroom.
Some people have argued that the word should be excised from dictionaries.
Uttering "nigger" at work can get an employee — and maybe his employer — convicted of creating a "hostile work environment."
A few people justify assault against any verbal transgressor who insults them by shouting the word.
Older blacks remember the Jim Crow years (brought to you, remember, not by private citizens but by state governments) and are understandably angered to hear what to them is the ultimate derogatory label. Younger blacks, however, have escaped much of the sting of those oppressive decades. Many of them do not have the same connotations, the same emotional associations and reactions that arise when they hear someone say, "nigger."
Some of these blacks frequently call each other "nigger" and listen to rap songs containing the word. The more they hear and say it, the more it fades into the background. Some may even wear the label as an odd badge of honor.
This tempest reminds me of two items from the black hole of the past.
One is from the founding of this country. "Yankee" was an appellation applied to Americans as an insult by the British. Rather than allow the Brits to set the terms of the debate, as it were, they adopted it as a self-descriptor and did so proudly. The term has stuck for over two centuries to describe the inhabitants of this country.
The second item is from the archives of Lenny Bruce. Before I discuss one of America's greatest comedians, however, we need to consider how resistance to and condemnation of the word "nigger" has reached hysterical levels in this country. The discussion has now gone far beyond issues of politeness or tolerance or civility. Our most basic freedoms are threatened by politically-correct masters who will punish anyone daring to violate their iron dictates of propriety.
Bad, Bad Lonny Rae
According to a story by Diana Lynne in WorldNetDaily, former Idaho resident, Lonny Rae, attended a high school football game last October. His wife, Kimberly, was there, as well, to take photos for a local newspaper. A black referee, Kenneth Manley, did not want his picture taken and tried to take Kimberly's camera. He failed to seize the camera, but in the struggle, he bruised and injured his victim's neck when he pulled on the camera's strap.
Naturally, Lonny took exception to the 230 pound, 6'3" Manley assaulting his 5'3" wife. While Kimberly screamed, Mr. Rae shoved Manley away from the smaller woman. Manley was then escorted to the locker room.
Lonny, however, was hardly satisfied with this result. Furious, he shouted, "Tell that nigger to get out here, 'cuz I'm a gonna kick his butt."
Manley chose discretion as the better part of valor when he faced a fight with a man rather than a woman. As any good husband would, Lonny told the police he wanted Manley charged with assault and battery.
A reasonable demand? You would think so, wouldn't you? Apparently, in Council, Idaho, however, you would be wrong.
Rather than holding Manley responsible for his violation of Kimberly's rights, officials charged Lonny with misdemeanor "malicious harassment," a result of Idaho's unconstitutional "hate crime" law. (Supporters of "hate crimes" rely on the discredited notion of "collective justice" and the unearned guilt many whites feel because of the transgressions of other, dead whites who either owned slaves or were racist themselves. For a fuller analysis of such violations of the First Amendment, see "Hatred is Not a Crime" on my website.) Later, the charge was increased to a felony.
Sensitive to Idaho's reputation as a haven for white-power groups, locals claimed Rae was racist, blamed him for the Orwellian twist of the school being put on probation for "fan abuse" of officials (!), barred him and his wife from school grounds, fired Kimberly from her job, and boycotted Lonny's construction business. Eventually, the family decided they had to move.
All because — in a fit of rage at a man who had physically hurt his wife — Lonny used a word — "nigger" — that he thought would upset his wife's attacker. But as Lonny told WorldNetDaily, none of the words banned by Idaho politicians who passed "hate crime" legislation refers to whites. Say "nigger, spook, gook, dike, fag, chink, spic" and go to jail. Say "cracker or honkey," however, and, hey, no problemo. Whites deserve it. Equal protection under the law? Oh, yeah.
While Lonny was not found guilty of a "hate crime," he was convicted of "assault" (!) — a crime for which he was never charged — for having the temerity to yell the word, "nigger." For that horrible utterance — for exercising his right to free expression — he spent a week in jail.
The warped reality of those irrationalists who equate saying with doing, who see no meaningful distinction between a bullet in the head and a "hurtful" word thrown into the air has finally arrived.
The thought police are alive and well in Idaho. In the name of fighting racism, the politicians have once again achieved the opposite of their stated goal and inflamed racism. As Lonny said, "This ordeal has almost made me racist . . . our lives were torn apart . . . and nothing happened to [Manley]. My kids are being taught that blacks can get away with anything."
Indeed, the "hate crime" statute that initially landed Lonny in trouble and the "assault" conviction that landed him in jail are, themselves, inherently racist. As Ayn Rand said in, "Racism" (in The Virtue of Selfishness), " . . . racism is a quest for the unearned. It is a quest for automatic knowledge — for an automatic evaluation of men's character that bypasses the responsibility of exercising rational or moral judgment . . . America has become race-conscious in a manner reminiscent of the worst days in the most backward countries . . . " Granting special favors — or meting out special punishments — to an individual because of the color of his skin is, as Rand points out, "the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism."
"Ironic" hardly captures the depth of this mockery of justice.
Which brings us around to Lenny Bruce . . .
Bad, Bad Lenny Bruce
It is too bad that Lenny is largely forgotten by those who would most benefit from his insights. This pioneer in defending free speech had — and has — a lot to say about cultural issues related to liberty. As a comedian, Lenny was repeatedly harassed and arrested for saying what is commonplace today in night clubs, movies, and cable television shows. A cultural leader, indeed, especially given the sad retroversion represented by our PC gestapo and such miscarriages as the Lonny Rae case.
One "bit" Lenny Bruce did was called, "Are there any niggers here tonight?" (If you're fortunate enough to be able to find it, this bit is in The Essential Lenny Bruce, edited by John Cohen, 1967, Ballantine Books.) In this bit, he asks the forbidden question of his audience. He also inquires as to the presence of any kikes, spics, hicks, guineas, greaseballs, Yids, and Polacks.
Oooo, the outrage is dripping from the air as he continues. He marches on in this vein for awhile. Then . . . well, I'll let Lenny finish this:
"The point? That the word's suppression gives it the power, the violence, the viciousness. If President Kennedy got on television and said, 'Tonight I'd like to introduce the niggers in my cabinet,' and he yelled 'niggerniggerniggerniggerniggerniggernigger' at every nigger he saw, 'boogeyboogeyboogeyboogeyboogey, niggerniggerniggernigger' till nigger didn't mean anything any more, till nigger lost its meaning — you'd never make any four-year-old nigger cry when he came home from school."
by Russell Madden
Last summer, singer and sometimes actor, Jennifer Lopez, got into trouble for using the word "nigger" in one of her songs. Some blacks were outraged at her temerity and insensitivity. Others cared less whether she included the word in her lyrics.
On a regular basis, Mark Twain's classic novel, Huckleberry Finn, is targeted for removal from high school libraries. The constant use by Huck of "nigger" sets the hackles on the easily offended. Ignoring the context in which Twain wrote the book; ignoring the fact that Huckleberry Finn is a profoundly anti-racist story; and ignoring Twain's personal commitment to bettering the situation of blacks in this country, the would-be censors denounce Twain in no uncertain terms and seek to yank the book from shelves. Mustn't pollute the minds of the young'uns, must we, with anything remotely controversial or thought-provoking?
Detective Mark Fuhrman's testimony in the O. J. Simpson murder trial was dismissed as part of a racist plot against an innocent man when a tape conversation proved his denial of ever uttering the word "nigger" was a lie.
Harvard law professor, Randall Kennedy, published a book in January of this year entitled, Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word. This book tackles the checkered history of what has become the quintessential racial slur in this country . . . at least if uttered by whites. In the 1600's, "nigger" had no particular opprobrium attached to it. By the early 1800's, however, that had changed. Today, it has become the Word-That-Must-Never-Be-Said.
A recent episode of the television show, "Boston Public," explored what happens when "nigger" enters a high school classroom.
Some people have argued that the word should be excised from dictionaries.
Uttering "nigger" at work can get an employee — and maybe his employer — convicted of creating a "hostile work environment."
A few people justify assault against any verbal transgressor who insults them by shouting the word.
Older blacks remember the Jim Crow years (brought to you, remember, not by private citizens but by state governments) and are understandably angered to hear what to them is the ultimate derogatory label. Younger blacks, however, have escaped much of the sting of those oppressive decades. Many of them do not have the same connotations, the same emotional associations and reactions that arise when they hear someone say, "nigger."
Some of these blacks frequently call each other "nigger" and listen to rap songs containing the word. The more they hear and say it, the more it fades into the background. Some may even wear the label as an odd badge of honor.
This tempest reminds me of two items from the black hole of the past.
One is from the founding of this country. "Yankee" was an appellation applied to Americans as an insult by the British. Rather than allow the Brits to set the terms of the debate, as it were, they adopted it as a self-descriptor and did so proudly. The term has stuck for over two centuries to describe the inhabitants of this country.
The second item is from the archives of Lenny Bruce. Before I discuss one of America's greatest comedians, however, we need to consider how resistance to and condemnation of the word "nigger" has reached hysterical levels in this country. The discussion has now gone far beyond issues of politeness or tolerance or civility. Our most basic freedoms are threatened by politically-correct masters who will punish anyone daring to violate their iron dictates of propriety.
Bad, Bad Lonny Rae
According to a story by Diana Lynne in WorldNetDaily, former Idaho resident, Lonny Rae, attended a high school football game last October. His wife, Kimberly, was there, as well, to take photos for a local newspaper. A black referee, Kenneth Manley, did not want his picture taken and tried to take Kimberly's camera. He failed to seize the camera, but in the struggle, he bruised and injured his victim's neck when he pulled on the camera's strap.
Naturally, Lonny took exception to the 230 pound, 6'3" Manley assaulting his 5'3" wife. While Kimberly screamed, Mr. Rae shoved Manley away from the smaller woman. Manley was then escorted to the locker room.
Lonny, however, was hardly satisfied with this result. Furious, he shouted, "Tell that nigger to get out here, 'cuz I'm a gonna kick his butt."
Manley chose discretion as the better part of valor when he faced a fight with a man rather than a woman. As any good husband would, Lonny told the police he wanted Manley charged with assault and battery.
A reasonable demand? You would think so, wouldn't you? Apparently, in Council, Idaho, however, you would be wrong.
Rather than holding Manley responsible for his violation of Kimberly's rights, officials charged Lonny with misdemeanor "malicious harassment," a result of Idaho's unconstitutional "hate crime" law. (Supporters of "hate crimes" rely on the discredited notion of "collective justice" and the unearned guilt many whites feel because of the transgressions of other, dead whites who either owned slaves or were racist themselves. For a fuller analysis of such violations of the First Amendment, see "Hatred is Not a Crime" on my website.) Later, the charge was increased to a felony.
Sensitive to Idaho's reputation as a haven for white-power groups, locals claimed Rae was racist, blamed him for the Orwellian twist of the school being put on probation for "fan abuse" of officials (!), barred him and his wife from school grounds, fired Kimberly from her job, and boycotted Lonny's construction business. Eventually, the family decided they had to move.
All because — in a fit of rage at a man who had physically hurt his wife — Lonny used a word — "nigger" — that he thought would upset his wife's attacker. But as Lonny told WorldNetDaily, none of the words banned by Idaho politicians who passed "hate crime" legislation refers to whites. Say "nigger, spook, gook, dike, fag, chink, spic" and go to jail. Say "cracker or honkey," however, and, hey, no problemo. Whites deserve it. Equal protection under the law? Oh, yeah.
While Lonny was not found guilty of a "hate crime," he was convicted of "assault" (!) — a crime for which he was never charged — for having the temerity to yell the word, "nigger." For that horrible utterance — for exercising his right to free expression — he spent a week in jail.
The warped reality of those irrationalists who equate saying with doing, who see no meaningful distinction between a bullet in the head and a "hurtful" word thrown into the air has finally arrived.
The thought police are alive and well in Idaho. In the name of fighting racism, the politicians have once again achieved the opposite of their stated goal and inflamed racism. As Lonny said, "This ordeal has almost made me racist . . . our lives were torn apart . . . and nothing happened to [Manley]. My kids are being taught that blacks can get away with anything."
Indeed, the "hate crime" statute that initially landed Lonny in trouble and the "assault" conviction that landed him in jail are, themselves, inherently racist. As Ayn Rand said in, "Racism" (in The Virtue of Selfishness), " . . . racism is a quest for the unearned. It is a quest for automatic knowledge — for an automatic evaluation of men's character that bypasses the responsibility of exercising rational or moral judgment . . . America has become race-conscious in a manner reminiscent of the worst days in the most backward countries . . . " Granting special favors — or meting out special punishments — to an individual because of the color of his skin is, as Rand points out, "the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism."
"Ironic" hardly captures the depth of this mockery of justice.
Which brings us around to Lenny Bruce . . .
Bad, Bad Lenny Bruce
It is too bad that Lenny is largely forgotten by those who would most benefit from his insights. This pioneer in defending free speech had — and has — a lot to say about cultural issues related to liberty. As a comedian, Lenny was repeatedly harassed and arrested for saying what is commonplace today in night clubs, movies, and cable television shows. A cultural leader, indeed, especially given the sad retroversion represented by our PC gestapo and such miscarriages as the Lonny Rae case.
One "bit" Lenny Bruce did was called, "Are there any niggers here tonight?" (If you're fortunate enough to be able to find it, this bit is in The Essential Lenny Bruce, edited by John Cohen, 1967, Ballantine Books.) In this bit, he asks the forbidden question of his audience. He also inquires as to the presence of any kikes, spics, hicks, guineas, greaseballs, Yids, and Polacks.
Oooo, the outrage is dripping from the air as he continues. He marches on in this vein for awhile. Then . . . well, I'll let Lenny finish this:
"The point? That the word's suppression gives it the power, the violence, the viciousness. If President Kennedy got on television and said, 'Tonight I'd like to introduce the niggers in my cabinet,' and he yelled 'niggerniggerniggerniggerniggerniggernigger' at every nigger he saw, 'boogeyboogeyboogeyboogeyboogey, niggerniggerniggernigger' till nigger didn't mean anything any more, till nigger lost its meaning — you'd never make any four-year-old nigger cry when he came home from school."
>"nigger" is a slur based on racism
When a Black person uses nigger in reference to another Black person as in, "Nigger, I'm gonna cut your ass," is that racism?
When a Black person uses nigger in reference to another Black person as in, "Nigger, I'm gonna cut your ass," is that racism?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When a Black person uses nigger in reference to another Black person is that racism?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In general, thats called positive reclamation of a negative word, much like the gay community went through with "queer". Though whether reclaiming "nigger" is such a positive thing is up for debate in the black community.
Frankly I don't understand why white males get so upset that black people can say "nigger" without too much drama and they can't.
If any of those types are out there, trust me, there is a black person out there who would gladly give up his "nigger-saying" rights to be able to walk down the street at night without people crossing to the other side for fear of being mugged.
In general, thats called positive reclamation of a negative word, much like the gay community went through with "queer". Though whether reclaiming "nigger" is such a positive thing is up for debate in the black community.
Frankly I don't understand why white males get so upset that black people can say "nigger" without too much drama and they can't.
If any of those types are out there, trust me, there is a black person out there who would gladly give up his "nigger-saying" rights to be able to walk down the street at night without people crossing to the other side for fear of being mugged.
Does this mean calling members of the KKK ragheads is out or in?...I guess it is whos ox gets gored or should I say Gore-d.
I use the term raghead in reference to mass murdering mid east muslims.raghead is no more of a racist term than wetback is.If you think that every person that crosses the rio grande illeagaly is Mexican I can educate you further and its your problem just like raghead is, it technically is not racist.
I will tell the monitors right now I will stop using the term raghead...under the same condition that the same assholes who complain about it, stop using the term "racist" very loosley because their holier than thou stance is not license to call someone that when they hear somthing they don't like..like the truth or fact....Actually its guys like Grantt who fxck up everything,when they get pounded over the head with fact, so they squell like little school girls..because his nonsensical righteous post are so out of touch with reality he is a fxckin joke.So he thinks he can get away with calling people racist,same with the other "progressive" thought police.
I use the term raghead in reference to mass murdering mid east muslims.raghead is no more of a racist term than wetback is.If you think that every person that crosses the rio grande illeagaly is Mexican I can educate you further and its your problem just like raghead is, it technically is not racist.
I will tell the monitors right now I will stop using the term raghead...under the same condition that the same assholes who complain about it, stop using the term "racist" very loosley because their holier than thou stance is not license to call someone that when they hear somthing they don't like..like the truth or fact....Actually its guys like Grantt who fxck up everything,when they get pounded over the head with fact, so they squell like little school girls..because his nonsensical righteous post are so out of touch with reality he is a fxckin joke.So he thinks he can get away with calling people racist,same with the other "progressive" thought police.
kaya....i`m not changing the subject....whatever kind of slur you use,be it racial,ethnic,personal,political,sexual,whatever....you should be prepared to be able to handle something in return....the raghead thing was in poor taste...as were redneck,neo-fascist,and many other such remarks...
and that "you guys" label....what does that mean?....let`s hear you lump every opposing opinion into some convenient derogatory category......
i don`t recall slurring anybody on here....let`s be a little even handed.....stick to the debate....
and,seriously,for your own sake, get over the election...if many on here were honest with themselves,they`d admit that this anti-war sentiment is nothing more than an extension of the election fiasco....if this were gore initiating this action,i believe more than a few on here would have a totally different opinion on the issue.....and based on many of clinton`s speeches and statements,i don`t think it would be a stretch to think bill may have considered going after saddam himself,if he were still president...but,of course,that can only be conjecture...
and that "you guys" label....what does that mean?....let`s hear you lump every opposing opinion into some convenient derogatory category......
i don`t recall slurring anybody on here....let`s be a little even handed.....stick to the debate....
and,seriously,for your own sake, get over the election...if many on here were honest with themselves,they`d admit that this anti-war sentiment is nothing more than an extension of the election fiasco....if this were gore initiating this action,i believe more than a few on here would have a totally different opinion on the issue.....and based on many of clinton`s speeches and statements,i don`t think it would be a stretch to think bill may have considered going after saddam himself,if he were still president...but,of course,that can only be conjecture...
Patriot, I don't even like you and I respect this post very much. Assuming it is made in good faith it is an admirable stance to volunteer to stop making a comment without being censured, while making it clear that it is not fear of the censure or banning that motivates you, but a desire for a level playing field.
Like the idiotic NAMBLA debate in the Rubber Room, people who do not like a given poster are jumping on the racism/stereotyping bandwagon in order to undermine what may well be otherwise valid views. It's in very poor form IMHO.
Phaedrus
Like the idiotic NAMBLA debate in the Rubber Room, people who do not like a given poster are jumping on the racism/stereotyping bandwagon in order to undermine what may well be otherwise valid views. It's in very poor form IMHO.
Phaedrus
btw....phaedrus,the lenny bruce rant was excellent....he is a legend for a reason...
[This message was edited by sphincter on 04-09-03 at 01:38 AM.]
[This message was edited by sphincter on 04-09-03 at 01:38 AM.]
Is this an issue?
I disagree wit many things that you post; often more the tone than the content. Perhaps strong to insiuate that I harbour an activedislike for you as I hardly think about it unless I'm reasing or responding to a post.
Guess my point was more "we're often on opposite sides but I must commend you for this."
That better?
Phaedrus
I disagree wit many things that you post; often more the tone than the content. Perhaps strong to insiuate that I harbour an activedislike for you as I hardly think about it unless I'm reasing or responding to a post.
Guess my point was more "we're often on opposite sides but I must commend you for this."
That better?
Phaedrus
Phaedrus, my own curiosity was the issue.
The tone part I can understand.I see things black and white for the most part..I am a bottom line guy.I think what society lacks is passion for whats right and wrong.I am tired of this bullshit that we are all alike, thats bullshit.Everybody is a victim is bullshit.Life sucks get a helmet.
Other than that P thanks for your response.Thats better.
The tone part I can understand.I see things black and white for the most part..I am a bottom line guy.I think what society lacks is passion for whats right and wrong.I am tired of this bullshit that we are all alike, thats bullshit.Everybody is a victim is bullshit.Life sucks get a helmet.
Other than that P thanks for your response.Thats better.
