Can Someone help me understand Barry Bonds comments about Babe Ruth

[REDEYE]

Listen, you started this thread asking for explanations about what Bonds means. I explained my take that I do think he is a fucking idiot, and is most likely a racist. That being said, his comments indirectly have some validity for the reasons I mentioned previously. I have read and reread your posts and have given my take on them as well. In a sport where athletic ability means little, like baseball, then there will be more whites than other other race, because there are more whites, period. Bob Gibson was a helluva pitcher, and so is Roger Clemens. And their skin color had no correlation to why they were good pitchers.

I did ask for explanations, but when you start throwing the racist card around, I'm going to take offense to it. I did mention Bob Gibson myself, and Paige. Hell Vida Blue was great for awhile. I didn't say that Blacks can't be great pitchers. if I said that, maybe you could tag a racist tag on me. I just said there are more successful white Pitchers then Black ones. Its a fact !!! What else are you going to base success on besides results. And I don't buy the " because there are more whites " there bound to be more white pitchers. Actually I don't care what you think of me, it really doesn't matter in the big scheme of things

 

[REDEYE]

Thats another thing I don't get, Why is it Ok to say that Blacks are better and or more successful then Whites in Basketball, and I actually believe that , but If someone says whites are more successful or for that matter better then Blacks at something you get attacked for it.

 

[Illini]

I did ask for explanations, but when you start throwing the racist card around, I'm going to take offense to it. I did mention Bob Gibson myself, and Paige. Hell Vida Blue was great for awhile. I didn't say that Blacks can't be great pitchers. if I said that, maybe you could tag a racist tag on me. I just said there are more successful white Pitchers then Black ones. Its a fact !!! What else are you going to base success on besides results. And I don't buy the " because there are more whites " there bound to be more white pitchers. Actually I don't care what you think of me, it really doesn't matter in the big scheme of things

I don't know if you are a racist, I just pointed out that your comments appeared racist, just like Barry's. Like I said, I call a spade a spade, and that is the way it appeared to me. You can choose not to "buy" the facts if you want to. Whites outnumber blacks in just about anything in life in the U.S. Basketball is an exception, but pitching is not.

 

[Illini]

Thats another thing I don't get, Why is it Ok to say that Blacks are better and or more successful then Whites in Basketball, and I actually believe that , but If someone says whites are more successful or for that matter better then Blacks at something you get attacked for it.

Everyone knows that there is a double standard. Dusty Baker can talk about how his black players are more durable in the heat, but if Tony Larussa said a comment like that, he would be fired on the spot. Charles Barkley could speak the truth, just like he always does, and say "black people are better basketball players than whites." But if Tom Tolbert said it, he's gone. Just like Jimmy the Greek. I would say in today's world, it's not okay in the media for me to say what I say. But I speak the truth.

But your argument here is nothing that falls into that category of the double standard. Saying whites are better pitchers than blacks, well for no other reason, just because there have been more of them......that's using a second-grader's logic.

 

[dalex40]

I don't think he is saying that white pitchers are better because there have been more white pitchers. I think he is saying that white pitchers are better because there have been a greater number of good white pitchers.

Just like black basketball players are generally thought of as being better because there are a greater number of good black players. Not just because there are more black basketball players.

 

[Illini]

I don't think he is saying that white pitchers are better because there have been more white pitchers. I think he is saying that white pitchers are better because there have been a greater number of good white pitchers.

Just like black basketball players are generally thought of as being better because there are a greater number of good black players. Not just because there are more black basketball players.

More white population.......more white people on the highways at once
More white population.........more white people in colleges
More white poplulation........more white people sleeping right now in U.S.
More white population........more good white pitchers in baseball

More white population.........more black good basketball players- here is the exception to the logic. For some reason, blacks are just more athletic. Thus, 10% of the population but 90% of the NBA. My point is that race has nothing to do with pitching. He just started a thread saying he didn't understand how Bonds could make such a stupid comment, and then argued the same kind of argument, but from the opposite side.

 

[dalex40]

Personally, I think Bonds probably doesnt add much to society other than the ability to hit a baseball which is exactly why he said what he said. he is an idot. I do think he is top 5 ever though, but still a complete idiot.

And baseball has nothing to do with true athletic ability. If you can hit a ball over the fence you sure as hell don't have to be able to run fast or jump high or throw a ball far. I'm sure many people would disagree but just my thought

 

[Illini]

Over the long haul White Pitchers have dominated baseball to a higher %. Paige was dominant.That doesn't mean there hasn't been great Black pitchers, Bob Gibson for one, but my point is that there have been MORE dominant white Pitchers in Baseball's history then blacks. Barry Bonds actually had it easier in this era, he gets to face black pitchers, unlike Ruth which had to face all white pitching staffs. Ruth definately had the tougher challenge for his era.

What a crazy statement. Truly bizarre and makes zero sense.

 

[silver7]

Bonds Is Another Example Of The Mentaly

challenged payers that proliferate in todays sports arena. No one has mentioned the size of the leagues. In Ruth`s era he face the best of only 7 other tms. Bonds gets the diluted rosters that exist because there are twice as many tms. I think that makes up for the fact that there weren`t any blacks. Bonds takes steroids, the Babe drank bourbon, advantage Bonds. BTW what is Bonds ERA, W/L, SO record etc.? As a hitter w/o the service yrs lost Bonds couldn`t carry Ted`s jock. Wms lost aprox. 250 HR`s, and 900 hits.

 

[REDEYE]

Everyone knows that there is a double standard. Dusty Baker can talk about how his black players are more durable in the heat, but if Tony Larussa said a comment like that, he would be fired on the spot. Charles Barkley could speak the truth, just like he always does, and say "black people are better basketball players than whites." But if Tom Tolbert said it, he's gone. Just like Jimmy the Greek. I would say in today's world, it's not okay in the media for me to say what I say. But I speak the truth.

But your argument here is nothing that falls into that category of the double standard. Saying whites are better pitchers than blacks, well for no other reason, just because there have been more of them......that's using a second-grader's logic.[/quote}

You help feed into the double standard yourself . Your one of those guys that hears a comment about race and first thing comes into your mind is Oh my God,he must be a racists. I have to point that guy out and expose him and then I can beat my chest. I can't stand being around people like yourself. If you don't agree fine ,great, no problem.Argue it if you want. Just because we are having a topic about it and you don't agree you label someone a racist. You are the worst kind of person bringing that up. If we are in Vegas again at same time I would advise you not to aknowledge me at all, after this, Your the kind of person I really don't like, just walk the other way and we'll be good.

 

[FairWarning]

Even though there are fewer black pitchers today than 20 years ago, there are many more Latinos than ever before. It probably evens out since there are twice the teams now.

 

[kingbill]

I heard Ty Cobb stabbed a Black man for talking to him and he was the first player inducted into the baseball hall of fame.
Bonds is an A$$hole but you can't deny his talent, he was a first ballot HOF'er before he started using steriods.
Drugs have been a huge part of baseball for decades, 86 Mets? Bill Lee threw a no hitter while trippin on acid.

 

[TheAce]

Steroids can only do so much for a person in the game of baseball....You still have to hit a round ball with a round bat consistently.

With that said, I still don't like Barry at all. And despite being a diehard Cubs fan, I gotta agree, Albert Pujols is and will be the best of our lifetime.

yes and lets put cork in that said bat

 

[docmercer--banned]

Guys also say George Bush is the Greatest President in this countries history so why should this debate suprise ya ???

Bonds is one of the Top 6 OFers of all time ... and anyone that thinks that names like Williams or Dimaggio would not be brought up first by baseball experts is on some serious crack

Look at what Williams would have done if he had not served this country for 3 yrs in WW2

 

[CAPNCRUNCH]

Guys also say George Bush is the Greatest President in this countries history so why should this debate suprise ya ???

Bonds is one of the Top 6 OFers of all time ... and anyone that thinks that names like Williams or Dimaggio would not be brought up first by baseball experts is on some serious crack

Look at what Williams would have done if he had not served this country for 3 yrs in WW2

And Korea! Bottom line is Bonds is a heck of a ballplayer and a huge moron off of it. P.S. Nice to see you Doc!:thumbsup2: :thumbsup2: :thumbsup2:

 

[docmercer--banned]

You too, buddy ...

hell, doing well when I dedicate a Camping Trip to Darwinian, Basehead and Patriot over in the RR and gets a laugh out of Darwinian

 

[Illini]

Everyone knows that there is a double standard. Dusty Baker can talk about how his black players are more durable in the heat, but if Tony Larussa said a comment like that, he would be fired on the spot. Charles Barkley could speak the truth, just like he always does, and say "black people are better basketball players than whites." But if Tom Tolbert said it, he's gone. Just like Jimmy the Greek. I would say in today's world, it's not okay in the media for me to say what I say. But I speak the truth.

But your argument here is nothing that falls into that category of the double standard. Saying whites are better pitchers than blacks, well for no other reason, just because there have been more of them......that's using a second-grader's logic.[/quote}

You help feed into the double standard yourself . Your one of those guys that hears a comment about race and first thing comes into your mind is Oh my God,he must be a racists. I have to point that guy out and expose him and then I can beat my chest. I can't stand being around people like yourself. If you don't agree fine ,great, no problem.Argue it if you want. Just because we are having a topic about it and you don't agree you label someone a racist. You are the worst kind of person bringing that up. If we are in Vegas again at same time I would advise you not to aknowledge me at all, after this, Your the kind of person I really don't like, just walk the other way and we'll be good.

I just pointed out the flaws in your logic, because it's full of them. Maybe you typed out some things that you didn't mean exactly. Entirely possible and happens all the time. I said that your comments appeared racist. And they do. You made a thread saying Bonds is a tool, and then made the same exact kind of argument on the opposite side. I don't know if you are or not, and I already said that. And I really don't care. Get off your high horse. If you have any logic, and re-read this thread, you will see why I said what I said. I probably will acknowledge you at the bash, because we are friends with the same people. If you refuse to shake my hand, then you really are a 2nd grader.

 

[MrJ]

I would agree that blacks are more athletic than whites

This actually isn't true. Just that different builds tend to excel at different things. Eg kenyans have more slow twich muscle fibers than most whites and other blacks and are great at endurance. African americans have a high ratio of fast twitch muscle fibers and so excel at explosive actions (jumping, sprinting). This does not make a race superior athletically, maybe just better at specific actions. Furthermore, genetically there isn't much difference between races. There is far more variation in different breeds of cats than races of humans. What we perceive as race is basically just skin deep.

If blacks were superior athletically, how come blacks from africa don't dominate as heavily? Blacks in north american/central america and europe have a decent amount of european genes in them. Shouldn't that make them genetically less athletic than blacks from africa?

You also can't rule out culture.

Australia's fastest sprinter (ran a sub 10, one of the fastest men in 2005) is half irish, half aboriginal so he isn't black at all.

I just hate it when people label races. That's the reason why humans are so divided.

 

[chiefssth]

Guys also say George Bush is the Greatest President in this countries history so why should this debate suprise ya ???

Bonds is one of the Top 6 OFers of all time ... and anyone that thinks that names like Williams or Dimaggio would not be brought up first by baseball experts is on some serious crack

Look at what Williams would have done if he had not served this country for 3 yrs in WW2

Doc: You smoking crack? Bonds is not a great OFer. Nowhere near top 6 of all time. He is a great hitter. That's it.

 

[Illini]

This actually isn't true. Just that different builds tend to excel at different things. Eg kenyans have more slow twich muscle fibers than most whites and other blacks and are great at endurance. African americans have a high ratio of fast twitch muscle fibers and so excel at explosive actions (jumping, sprinting). This does not make a race superior athletically, maybe just better at specific actions. Furthermore, genetically there isn't much difference between races. There is far more variation in different breeds of cats than races of humans. What we perceive as race is basically just skin deep.

If blacks were superior athletically, how come blacks from africa don't dominate as heavily? Blacks in north american/central america and europe have a decent amount of european genes in them. Shouldn't that make them genetically less athletic than blacks from africa?

You also can't rule out culture.

Australia's fastest sprinter (ran a sub 10, one of the fastest men in 2005) is half irish, half aboriginal so he isn't black at all.

I just hate it when people label races. That's the reason why humans are so divided.

I've never thought about the reasons why, and I'm flat out ignorant when it comes to the science part. I just know that blacks are minorities in this country in a major way, but they make up most of college basketball and the NBA. When I think of athletic ability, I think of jumping and quickness. That's what I meant by that.