Are Suicide Bombers Cowardly?

DarrylParsons · Mar 15, 2004

American,

Thanks man, these are historic times for us

Patriot,

I don't think Carter and Clinton handled things too well either. They wanted to give up important stuff. Maybe there is no solution that involves giving up only unimportant stuff but we can't be sure about that until we've tried hard enough to look for one. That's the gist of what I'm saying.

The WTC attack was under Bush. Are you saying that it happened because of Clinton's policies?

UncleMoneybags · Mar 15, 2004

Patriot,

I don't think you can claim victory just yet. 2.5 years really isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things. They may be waiting until the election is right around the corner in order to scare people into voting for the oppositon parties similar to the Spanish elections. I don't know if that would work here or just galvanize support behind Bush. Time will tell.

I have seen numerous pacifists on this and other boards. They just don't understand the mentality of the extremists. They get up, they pray. They go to work, they pray. They take lunch, they pray. They go home, they pray. They go to the Mosque and hear that the Great Satan and the Zionist pigs must be exterminated for the glory of Allah. Eventually, it turns into a Manchurian candidate episode and the weaker minds do the bidding.

There are also people who bash the U.S. because they can. About a week and a half ago I got into it with some idiot from Canada. He spouted off with the typical "America is a big bully and the greatest threat to peace" argument. His support was all the actions that they have taken in the last 20 years. We progressed the conversation to other areas (World War II) and he blasted the U.S. for sitting on the sidelines for so long. He didn't stop to think that he may have contradicted himself so I called him on it. If you're mad because the U.S. sat on the sidelines while brave Canadians were falling by the wayside, that's one thing. However, if you then get mad because the U.S. wants to proactively handle certain situations, that's just pathetic. Don't bash the U.S. because it's chic, bash the U.S. because you have convictions that don't conflict with each other.

Darryl,

The extremists began their training in the nineties. You don't just wake up one day and simultaneously hijack some planes and crash into various landmarks and skyscrapers. If Gore won it would have still happened. If we (Americans) can take one positive thing from the attack, IMO it would be that we can be attacked and that a good defense is a well organized offense. The attack on the U.S.S. Cole was tragic but most people didn't dwell on it because the Arabian Sea is on the other side of the world. It took a domestic attack before people realized that they should do something about it.

PatPatriot · Mar 15, 2004

Parson its not Clintons fault in its entirety,its the whole philosophy of appeasment that led to 9/11...I will say this.Clinton did pitch a shut out.
First WTC attack.
Clinton-0 response
Khobarr towers- 0 response
USS Cole- 0 response.
9/11- Bush constant pressure on Mid east.
Terroist on US since then-0 response.
Lybia gave up WMD's
Saddam out of power.
N. Korea at the table
Iran on the verge of collapse.

areeff · Mar 16, 2004

Does patriot ever post anything well thought out?

Anyone who understand the art of war at all understands that we have been drawn out into the open field and are now much easier to launch attacks against than to attack the homeland. I don't expect many homeland attacks while we are more easily accesible to attack in other nations.

North Korea has been at the table on and off for decades and Iran is not going to collapse. Too much CNN or FOX for this guy.

Libya is not intimidated by the U.S. The WMD "giveup" was an economic measure because after we solved lockerbie we gave them the olive branch and said if they did a little bit more we'd pretend everything never happened (tripoli, US marine barracks, etc)

Oceans11 · Mar 16, 2004

He makes it up as he goes along, but he doesn't take it too seriously in here, as you shouldn't. Or me either.

Theres lots of juicy overseas US targets, especially economic ones.

The thing is, as far as direct US attacks go, how the hell could you top 9/11?
A nuke? An epidemic?

IMO hijacking a fully laden oil tanker and running it onto some rocks on the US coast is another.

If insurance costs get too high, US business will have problems, and the Gov will need to underwrite the terrorist element.

Any attack on US interests gets you FAR more publicity-bang for your buck, and most sympathisers in the middle east prefer US/Israeli strikes.
(The great satan and his middle east wasp.)

All this shit just boils down to the US policy towards the middle east anyway.
Other western countries are just hangers-oners, Israel would collapse without the US.

hansenbros. · Mar 16, 2004

i truly cannot believe what i just read "...calling suicide bombers cowardly is inappropriate..." and you said it more than once?????

what in the sam hell is wrong with you????

killing as many INNOCENT, UNSUSPECTING, people as you can by blowing your self to little wormy pieces???

courage would be try killing unarmed people with your bare hands, or at the very least letting your opponents know of your intentions so they had the opportunity to defend themselves!!

the pussy suicide bombers DO NOT embody one ounce of valiance!!!! your comments are pathetic and vile!!

first Iraq, then France

Sodium Pentethol V · Mar 17, 2004

Hey Darryl how's that path of least resistance?

Serve you well with Adolph? how about Idi Amin or the IRA?

Maybe Khadaffi or CAstro should be used as examples.

Pacifistic idjits, placate the terrorists, theres a good plan, your hero, Carter tried as much and looky, looky, two attacks in the continental US in 10yrs.

This one couplet shows your true colors.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Although it may not look like it, I am actually suggesting something that is good for America because every attack by the USA leads to more killing of Americans later on<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may not look like it? Maybe because it is bullshit conjecture by the advocates of the path of least resistance,

LET THEM CONTINUE BLOWING UP YOUR S H I T AND DO NOTHING.

Coltrain · Mar 17, 2004

American love the post

American · Mar 17, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Coltrain:
American love the post<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which one? I want to know, because I don't get positve feedback that often.

xpanda · Mar 17, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by American:
A suicide attack is a desperate, last-resort act. The suicide bombers are referred to as cowardly because their attacks are almost always against defenseless civilians, including women, children and elderly. Also, don't forget that these aren't affluent people killing themselves. These are brain-washed poverty-stricken youths whose families are PAID large sums of money for them carrying these acts out. I don't see the honor or courage in it at all. I don't think suicide bombers are courageous, nor the 9/11 highjackers, nor do I think Timothy McVeigh was courageous. (Tim's attack turned out to be suicide in the end)

Please don't start to admire these guys' courage or audacity or ruthlessness.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was a documentary on last week called 'Al Qaida Family' (Canadian) and the interviewer spoke with a couple of their women (who are now Canadian, and judging by their accents, have been here most of their lives) and they explained that it's all that you say plus ... dying a jihadic death makes one an automatic martyr and, since death to them ranks as high as it did for Egyptians, it is honourable and almost envied to die like that. These women said they would be proud to have family die a death like that.

Of course we'll never understand that mentality, which is going to make it that much more difficult to deal with the situation in its entirety.

UncleMoneybags · Mar 17, 2004

xpanda,

Why deal with it at all? Naturalized Canadians that speak the same drivel as the other extremists. What should be done?

If you have a dying horse, no matter how you put strings on him and try to animate him you still have a dying horse that must be put down. Prolonging the inevitable is harder on everyone.

xpanda · Mar 17, 2004

I am reading into your post that you would condone extermination of these societies as a whole. If this is the case, how do you distinguish between the people who sympathise with terrorists and those that don't? Or do you suggest that it might be a necessary evil to do just that?

Caesar · Mar 17, 2004

this is a snippet from a south asian voice article which i adhere to:

After the second world war, it became impossible to prevent the wave of democratization that swept the colonies, and one by one, the old puppet governments in the region collapsed. Britain and France lost their colonies, but the US stepped in as the new and dominant neo-colonial power in the region. US imperial goals were expressed without mincing any words in a 1953 internal U.S. document: “United States policy is to keep the sources of oil in the Middle East in American hands.” (See: NSC 5401, quoted in Mohammed Heikal,, Cutting the lion’s tail; Suez through Egyptian eyes, Andre Deutsch, London, 1986, p. 38)

if oil was never discovered in the middle east during the 30's, we wouldnt even be talking about suicide bombers right now

if you dont believe the united states has tried to control this region for the last 50 years, you have blinders on. the united states has chosen the winners and losers in that area for over 5 decades and sometimes the "losers" want payback

i would imagine if i grew up in that area, i would hate the united states with every fiber of my being and do everything possible to stop her also. i dont see the point of suicide bombings for their cause tho.

lastly you cant label the suicide bombers as cowardice or brave unless you use some textbook definition, which i never do

ive done a few things in my life that people thought were brave, however i felt it was the only action possible so by my definition it wasnt.

if you can tell me what the bomber believed at the point of no return, then i can answer your question from above.

questions like this are great for discussion but rarely can things be so simplified, unless the world is black and white.

if you are 100% correct that you are right in your beliefs, because their can be no other way to interpret things. then look yourself in the mirror and say "now i understand why the world is such a mess right now"

CAESAR

Sodium Pentethol V · Mar 17, 2004

[QUOTEif oil was never discovered in the middle east during the 30's, we wouldnt even be talking about suicide bombers right now[/QUOTE]

Don't you really mean if the USa never evolved and was a third world country?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>if you dont believe the united states has tried to control this region for the last 50 years, you have blinders on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really, last I looked whenever we tried to control something we did, we didn't endure gas shortages, we didn't deal with war lords, we control it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>the united states has chosen the winners and losers in that area for over 5 decades and sometimes the "losers" want payback<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the entire region is the asshole of earth and you are going to admonish the only supr power on earth for making an attempt at civility?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>i would imagine if i grew up in that area, i would hate the united states with every fiber of my being and do everything possible to stop her also.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really, like living in a third world order run by dictators? Like living an oppressed existance? Like living without any of the modern conveniences? Like living without modern medicine?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>lastly you cant label the suicide bombers as cowardice or brave unless you use some textbook definition, which i never do<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch me, they are phucking cowards.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>ive done a few things in my life that people thought were brave, however i felt it was the only action possible so by my definition it wasnt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here have a pebble sandwich and a life span of 40yrs. Afterall somehow it is the USA fault and maybe you should kill yourself by flying a plane into a building.

American · Mar 17, 2004

Isn't it incredible how the terrorists who are responsible for that horrible attack on 9/11 as well as 3/11 get so much simpathy and compassion and understanding from some of these assholes who actually call themselves Americans? I don't understand how these people can be seduced by liberal propaganda like that. Caesar just made me ashamed of him with that post.

UncleMoneybags · Mar 18, 2004

xpanda,

I condone the extermination of any and all terrorists that would take their battle to the civilian sector. If their family shields them from capture, they should be killed as well. If there are nations that hinder the progress of that goal, they should be removed.

If their attacks were limited to military targets then I could see handling the situation with kid gloves. However, that wouldn't dramatize their struggle against the Jewish and American swine. Make no mistake about it, they wouldn't think twice about exterminating you and your way of life yet for some reason you try to reason with them over tea and crumpets.

On TV, the Muslims I see are the "We are the world" type. I have yet to meet one of those here in America. It seems that there are more extremists here than overseas or at least in my experience.

winkyduck · Mar 18, 2004

are they cowards.

NO!

do i think they are chicken shit for what they do - YES!

but how "cowardly" is it to blow yourself up in support of your cause. to me - that takes the opposite of cowardice - major league cajones for this is something you can only do one time.

to be that devoted to your cause that you are willing to blow yourself up in support of it - that is WOW!

again - what happens when they blow themselves up is beyond tragic - but the question asked if they are cowardly, or not - and i say "NO."

to me, it is cowardly to get a machine gun, blow away "X" number of people then turn the gun on yourself. THAT is cowardly.

to take this one step further - for the 19 who did what they did on 9/11 - that was NOT cowardly. once again - what they is something i hope they rot in hell for - but NOT cowardly - especially those in the cockpit - who got to see the plane crash into the buildings they intended them to crash into.

DarrylParsons · Mar 18, 2004

Sodium,

The path of least resistance is not just an ideology -- it is a law of nature. If you choose to ignore it you will be forever destined to struggle in vain for nature is a supreme opponent which lowly man can never defeat. That has to be the premise from which all your actions are logically derived, assuming you are a rational being of course.

barman · Mar 18, 2004

Can't we just skip the silly comparisons and get down to the bottom line??

Strapping explosives to your body and then detonating the charges while surrounded by civilians = COWARDLY

Dropping good ol' American cluster bombs From 20,000 feet by high quality U.S. military aircraft on population centers filled with civilians = BRAVERY

...plus GREAT for the economy, especially in times of increasing unemployment, or if your portfolio has a nice healthy share of Halliburton, Bechtel, Lockheed Martin, etc, et-sadness- cetera.

Sodium Pentethol V · Mar 19, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Can't we just skip the silly comparisons and get down to the bottom line <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem.

Courage=living life and working peacefully towards change

Coward=posting stupidi s h i t behind a computer keyboard while your classmates are dying to protect your lifestyle.