Another Piece of Garbage Who Will Hide Behind a Badge and Not Get Charged with Murder

[kayaman+]

"But painting all law enforcement officers with the brush you do suggests you are a moron."

While you are right that to generalize is pretty moronic, I think there is a societal tendency to dislike cops.

The only time in my life I ever remember being told I should trust a cop was as a little kid. You know when your mom or grade school teacher tells you the police officer is your friend, ask him for help if you're lost, etc.
Other than that what actually is common, IMHO, is across the board comments of cop hate, people on high ways flashing their head lights as a friendly gesture to warn others the cops are ahead, radar detectors, taking side routes where the cops usually don't set up road blocks, etc.

Personally I can't think of one friend or acquaintance that didn't have a family memeber that was in law enforcement that was pro cops.

This reminds me of a time back in high school. We were all watching one of those typical after school fist fights. The cops showed up and everybody took off in different directions. One of the cops caught me and asked if I was one of the ones that had been fighting, I said no. So his next questions was, then why was I running. I answered, well because you were chasing me, it just seemed like common sense to me.

 

[GAMEFACE]

kaya,

your example shows why cops are in a no win situation. if you were in involved in a fight and you just killed another student you'd say the cop was an idiot for not stopping you and trying to determine if you were involve. damned if you do and damned if don't applies in many police situations.

 

[Marco]

Phaedrus stated: "Last point, and here's where my problem lies. The GSP is already running the spin machine on this one, stating that the trooper's actions were appropriate for the circumstances and that the loss of life, while unfortunate, was a necessary evil that might have saved other lives which could theoretically have been put in danger. This is utter nonsense, and utterly inexcusable."

Fact is there are numerous cases of drivers, whether sober or drunk, who have lost control of thier vehicle at high speeds, whether chased by police or not, and killed innocent people in the process of losing control of that vehicle...

The only "utter nonsense" is your arrogant statement that assumes that this vehicle speeding down the interstate poses no threat to the traffic ahead or to the occupants inside those vehicles ahead, when history has shown that numerous innocent people have been seriously injured or killed by irresponsible drivers who lost control of thier vehicle.

You use the words "might" and "theoretically" as is there was absolute no chance of anyone else being effected or injured as a result of letting them speed down the road, a blatant falsehood.....that statement would compare to saying that a hijacked plane poses no threat to other people, and making that statement after the two world trade centers were hauled off to the landfill...

 

[Phaedrus]

No Marco, the use of the terms "might" and "theoretical" indicates something which might happen or could cause damage to theoretical victims. If I believed there was no chance I would have used words like "impossible" and "no chance."

Meanwhile, the only actual people who actually died in this incident died because of a policeman using a tactic inappropriate to the case at hand. Please note (and I really, really can't believe I'm typing this yet again) that I agree that it was necessary to attempt to stop the vehicle. However (and I really, really can't believe I'm typing this yet again) there are numerous other ways in which this might have been accomplished which, while all possessed of their own inherent risk factors, would have posed lesser risk to both the people who were killed, and the police officer who was very lucky to not be killed by his botch job of a stop attempt.


Phaedrus

 

[Marco]

Obviously we disagree as to whether or not the troopers action was appropriate or not....

I don't know the specifics as to what the traffic conditions were on this stretch of highway at the time of the PIT maneuver, if the road was clear of traffic then this would have been an appropriate action as compared to doing the same action on an area of highway where a spinout would have posed a threat to innocent drivers....

A speeding vehicle can kill someone just as easy and just as fast as a firearm.....I'm not in favor of taking these chases across multiple states and just hoping that the actions of some intentionally grossly reckless driver fleeing the police doesn't end up wiping out a minivan full of people....

Had this chase ended in that scenario then all you bleeding hearts commenting about 2 teenagers getting killed would have been in a snorting upheaval about some family of 4 getting killed in a minivan and harping that the teenager got a slap on the wrist, grounding for a week, and missed the prom, while 4 innocent people got the death sentence....

 

[sammythesage]

They got what they deserved; end of debate!
How many lives did the "flying bitches" put at risk even before the chase started.

To put it in another perspective, if you or a loved had been clipped by those "women" your take on this story would be completely different.

 

[kayaman+]

"They got what they deserved; end of debate!"

Got what they deserved??? The death penalty for speeding???
End of debate??? Reckless police tactics should not be debated???

What they deserved was to be tried for their crimes, that's the basic premise of our legal system.

"How many lives did the "flying bitches" put at risk even before the chase started."

100 mph hardly qualifies them as "flying bitches", in my opinion. There was a time in our nation, not even that long ago when 100mph wasn't any big deal. Hell as a kid I once got up to 135mph on an interstate.

 

[Marco]

"What they deserved was to be tried for thier crimes..."

Awful tough to take someone to court when they refuse to stop for the police....due process can begin when they quit running and give up.

"100 mph hardly qualifies them as "flying bitches", in my opinion. There was a time in our nation, not even that long ago when 100mph wasn't any big deal. Hell as a kid I once got up to 135mph on an interstate."

Hell, why don't we just jerk all the speed limit signs, streetlights, and other traffic controls and let the insurance companies figure it out after the carnage is complete.....no sense chasing someone unless he's driving an Indy car at 200 mph....

Why do I get the feeling that if a madman was walking down the street of a major city with a fully automatic machine gun, spraying bullets indiscriminately at people and buildings, that some of the posters in this thread would want to wait until the madman simply ran out of bullets.....he couldn't possibly be carrying any extra clips in that duffel bag, could he?

 

[GAMEFACE]

I'm beginning to believe some have no idea what our men and women in blue do. I salute Bill the cop and Barman, it's a thankless job. It makes you wonder if a high % of RX posters have a bad taste because of their lengthy felony arrest record.

I stand by our officers the thin blue line, are the Police perfect? no. Name one profession that operates 100% perfect. The thin blue line operates under more pressure than any other.

 

[Phaedrus]

Marco, I don't know what else I can possibly say. You're obviously only listening to 5% of what I'm saying; might as well just bow out. I feel like I'm talking to eek here; that's bad enough in actuality that I don't care for a practice run with you.


Phaedrus

 

[Marco]

Phaedrus.....I believe I'm listening to all of what you're saying....I just don't agree with some of it....

Looking back at your 5 points layed out on page 2 of this thread, I will agree with point number one and point number three....the others I clearly disagree with or have mixed feelings about....

So I'm listening to 100% of it and agreeing with 40% of it.....

Having a drivers licence is not a permit to thumb your nose at the law and do whatever one pleases and disregard the safety of law-abiding motorists, plain and simple.

 

[barman]

Okay Bill. I haven't been throught CSprings in some time, but have logged some visits there when my mother lived there five years in 90s and then in later trips from my home in Dallas up to Salt Lake.

I have heard very positive things about the CSprings community and have always had a good feeling for Colorado residents in general. It's a good place and a good combination of people.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[barman]

GFACE wrote: I'm beginning to believe some have no idea what our men and women in blue do. I salute Bill the cop and Barman, it's a thankless job.

BAR: Thanks for the salute, but I am not a police officer. I do work with police and judges via our organization shown in my avatar.

GFACE: The thin blue line operates under more pressure than any other.

BAR: Bullcrap. Police are so incredibly well armed and frankly (in most cases) well trained that dangerous encounters are few and far between when we take into consideration all police encounters with the public.

-----

MARCO: I don't want to see a highspeed chase go over several state lines....

BAR: Police are so well equipped and in such good communication that there's no chance in hell this chase could have gone more than another 10-20 minutes on a major highway system, before a suitable roadblock would be set up and the pursued vehicle disabled. The officers in this case simply lost neccesary patience and executed a risky and dangerous move that was not needed, based on the lack of evidence that the pursued vehicle was an iminent threat to anyone else.

 

[Marco]

"....based on the lack of evidence that the pursued vehicle was an imminent threat to anyone else."

Yeah, just wait until it smashes into a carload of people, then we can judge it to be a threat, and all those who still don't believe it was a threat can just look at the bodies and all that blood.

You're assuming that this vehicle is going to stay the course and stay in control, both of these are not givens....the pursued vehicle can exit the current road and take another path, of which the traffic controls are varied...stop signs, streetlights...who knows what's waiting at the next intersection this pursued vehicle is speeding towards, and who knows if it's going to stop or broadside another car.....

Given its present course there is no guarantee that the driver will maintain control....can easily lose control and hit another motorist or cause another motorist to swerve in avoidance and cause a separate but related accident.

This pursued vehicle, much to your disappointment, is not running on some tracks like a railroad train, there is no predicting where the vehicle will go and subject to the driver's whims about its next course....even if it was on tracks, trains have been derailed and will continue to do so in the future....

If anything they're lucky only two people died because of the gross misconduct of the driver of the pursued vehicle...

 

[jointpleasures]

Tough call on this to me. Phadreus made five strong points though.

 

[Marco]

Phaedrus made five points, how strong they are is a matter of doubt:

1) Most sensible of all the points, would have ended this mishap with a ticket and all parties go thier merry way.

2) Assumes that no innocent person is killed that would give someone else a dead relative and a solid reason to cry "why weren't they stopped sooner?"

3) about as reasonable and sensible as number one, listed above.

4) Assumes, like number 2 above, that no innocent driver is killed allowing this insanity to continue.

5) This point is the worst of all, and assumes most mistakenly, that allowing the fleeing driver to continue poses no threat to other drivers on the highway and also grossly assumes in error that the pursued driver will maintain control of the vehicle. What kind of wholesale stupidity leads one to disregard past history and just think this one will turn out different than the ones where the pursued lost control and killed innocent parties?

Using that model then we should just bury our heads in the sand whenever a drunk driver roars down the road because obviously there is no danger to anyone else on the highway. It's a known fact that drunk drivers have never killed anyone.

Maybe if your mother was killed by some speeding teenager you'd wake up to the true reality of this situation, and not cling to unbased perceptions.

 

[Phaedrus]

Would a wife and son do? I lost one of each to a drunk driver.


Phaedrus