An open Letter from Ollie North To J.F.Kerry

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Its the hypocrisy of the whole thing that gets right up my nose.

US forces are perfectly happy to target civilian areas, which are bound to have kids.

It doesn't stop them dropping their fuxxing bombs though.

Makr al-Deeb
 

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Kaya - There hasn't been a better Preside3nt than Ron Reagan during my lifetime. And the Dems best was Clinton - the guy who perjured himself.

Think about it - here's the list of Democrat Presidents over the last 50 years. Kennedy - the President who took us too the brink of WW III, LBJ, the guy who gave us Vietnam and the great society, Carter - the President who gave us 16% mortgage rates, Clinton with his "I had no sexual relations with that woman....".

Asd for Ron Reagan, the Democrat Congress threw everything they could at him and he came away spotless. Accusations abounded, but not a shred of evidence.

The Republican congress did to Clinton what the Dems did to Reagan - in both cases the Congress was wrong.

Kaya - you should quit studying the revisionists and do some reading on your own!
 

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eek - what are you blathering about?
What other army in the history of the world had a free and anti-military press along on its wars?

Are you saying that the Russians were using that school as a WMD production facility? Are you saying that the US went into a school and selectively murdered it's occupants to prove a point or for revenge? Are you saying that Saadam Hussein and the Taliban were innocent and that the US was wrong for invading? Are you saying that you're right and everyone who supported the incursions are wrong? Are you saying that the terrorists are good people with a just cause and they murder innocent women and children because they're collateral to the real target?

What are you trying to say? Spit it out!
 

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"Kaya - There hasn't been a better Preside3nt than Ron Reagan during my lifetime. And the Dems best was Clinton - the guy who perjured himself."

The worst presidents in my life time were nixon, reagan and carter. All the bullshit cold war propaganda about reagan doesn't wash. He took us from greatest creditor nation to greatest debtor nation in just 8 years. He raped social security benefits, public school funding and GSL's. It took 12 years to recover from reaganomics. On top of that his criminal activity in Nicaragua makes watergate look like nothing.

On a side note asked my Pops (I'm guessing you're about his age) who he believes has been the best president in his lifetime he says Truman, worst dumbya, second worst nixon.
 

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You reap what you sow BB.
Its not rocket science.

Anyway, it looks like theres loads of hate and weaponry on both sides so you can have yourselves a real killfest.

Any kind of diplomatic solution in the middle east is a waste of time until the main participants, including youselves, start to get war weary.
 

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I don't know about Truman and Ike - they were Presidents during my childhood. I was a young adult from Kennedy on - so I know something about Presidents since then.

LBJ was without a doubt the worst president of my lifetime - he got us into a social and military quagmire and then chickened out and didn't run; he was so bad that the next two Dems to run were beaten by landslides by an unpersonable and not very good Dick Nixon.

Ford was a short termer and a non-entity.

Carter was next on the really bad presidents list because he made a bad economy worse, and decimated the military - and then mis-handled the Iran thing.

Tricky Dicky was bad - but Bush the elder was also bad.

To be honest about it, Bush the junior hasn't impressed me, but the Dems are trying to foist another northeast liberal on us, and to make matters worse, it's that lying SOB and hypocrite Kerry. I'll take Bush the Jr.

So let's see - LBJ leads for the worst by a mile, Carter, Bush the SR, Tricky Dicky follow a distant second!

Ron Reagan was the best - the neo Nazi's in Congress did their damndest to screw him, but they missed every time!
 

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eek, by your logic, the Irish terrorists are legitemized in their tactics against English civilians - the Basque Separatists are justified in their actions against the Spanish; and all of the other terrorist organizations are correct in their murder and mayhem.

To each his own I guess!
 

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"Ron Reagan was the best - the neo Nazi's in Congress did their damndest to screw him, but they missed every time!"

Do you really think I don't remember constitutes innocence?

In all honesty after the Iran/Contra affair it just blows my mind that anyone could idolize reagan. Perhaps it's because I've known personally Nicaraguans that suffered the effects of what he did. But in all honesty I was appauled by his actions before I ever came to Central America.
 

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Kaya - innecence of what? The way the spin artists on the hill twist the facts, Ron Reagan wasn't going to give them the ammo to shoot him with. The congress had nothing on Reafgan but baseless allegations and they could get anything to stick - no matter how hard they tried - and they tried very hard. When you go fishing and you don't use bait, you can't expect to hook a fish.

By the way - it's Clinton who got caught wagging his finger at the public and saying that he didn't have sex.

It's Clinton who perjured himself.

You never heard Ron Reagan saying "That depends on what the definition of is is!"

Kaya - do you always look at it like it's this side vs that side?
 

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I'm not talking about sides. I'm saying he didn't out smart or dodge anybody, his excuse was he couldn't remember. He got away with it because the government learned after watergate to always have a scapegoat, i.e. ollie north.

The point is that he was commander in chief while our military prolonged a brutal civil war that was none of our business.

"That depends on what the definition of is is!"

I don't think ronnie knew too many definitions. He once tried to claim that ketchup was a vegetable to reduce costs in public school lunches, nice attitude towards the nutrition of little American kids. Thanks you just reminded me of one more reason to have contempt for the sob.
 

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BB.
The IRA would never have existed if it hadn't been for the way the Brits treated the catholics.

I seem to recall a lot of US sympathy for the Irish cause in the USA btw.

They also led the way on developing tactics to fight oppressive governments, or governments that support oppression.

When they blew up civilians and soldiers, the British government didn't give a flying fuk.
Just the usual platitudes and BBC propaganda.

Once they shifted onto targeting Government ministers and the financial centre of London, suddenly the 'no surrender' policy of the Government disappeared, and a gradual shift towards compromise began.

The IRA proved that if you want real results, go for the money and the power centres.
If you blow up the little people, no-one that matters gives a toss.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bblight:
eek - what are you blathering about?
What are you trying to say? Spit it out! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will attempt to keep it simple.

According to this thread, our methods and systems for killing children are morally superior to their methods and systems for killing children.

Well I for one, don't buy into that horseshit.

War is war, fair enough.
But for either side to claim 'moral superiority'?
Puhleeze.
 

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posted by eek "Just the usual platitudes and BBC propaganda."

I'm glad to see that we agree that the BBC is just a propaganda outlet for the government!

As for your line of BS - and I quote:

"I will attempt to keep it simple.
According to this thread, our methods and systems for killing children are morally superior to their methods and systems for killing children.
Well I for one, don't buy into that horseshit.
War is war, fair enough."

No - I heartily disagree! The US and its allies do not purposefully target children and innocent civilians. Yes! I will admit that "collateral damage" does occur - but not as a matter of policy and not intentionally.

There's a world of difference between a "humane" war where every attempt is made to avoid civilian casualties and a war where civilian casualties aren't even considered - and I immediately think of WW II where cities full of civilians were the targets, and where all sides were guilty.

eek - if you're anti war, I can understand and respect a stance that condemns ALL participants in such actions - but your statements condoned the actions of the terrorists in Russia - and I don't understand and I especially do not respect such a warped rationale!

I think you aught to rethink your position, because your support of the terrorists make you a warmonger of the most deplorable character.
 

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kaya - I again suggest you read a few bio's that haven't been written by the revisionists.

All that I've heard from you about Reagan is "He couldn't remember".

Gimmee a break! So what that he couldn't remember - the Congress was fishing for ammo to shoot at Reagan and he wasn't going to give them any! Are you ssaying that It's not OK for Reagan to obfuscate, but it's perfectly foine for Clinton to perjure himself?

As for Reagans South America policies, I sugest you ask the Nicaraguans and Granadans about Reagan before you spout anything else on their behalf - they laud his actions and consider Reagan a hero.

If the American people thought Reagan was so terrible, they sure as hell would not have re-elected him. And if possible, they would have re-elected him to a third term.

I brought the house I live in while Carter was President - I paid a mortgage rate of 15 and seven eighths percent. Reagan helped bring the percentage rate down to 9 percent, and he helped create a more productive economy.

The supply side economy that was started by Reagan has continued to this day and is the foundation that todays great econmy is built on. Remember that you've never waited in a gas line or lived in an economy where unemployment was in the double digits; where it was common for people to work two full time jobs ( I did for a while in the '70's, with a wife and three kids to take care of. )

One of the problems woith being young nowadays is that you've never lived through a bad economy. I hope you never have such an experience.
 

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"Gimmee a break! So what that he couldn't remember - the Congress was fishing for ammo to shoot at Reagan and he wasn't going to give them any! Are you ssaying that It's not OK for Reagan to obfuscate, but it's perfectly foine for Clinton to perjure himself?"

Actually in light of the fact that it's come out that ronnie was already suffering from Alzheimer's disease while he was in office one could actually believe that he really didn't remember. That info did slightly decrease my spite towards him, he was probably more of a puppet than we realize.

"As for Reagans South America policies, I sugest you ask the Nicaraguans and Granadans about Reagan before you spout anything else on their behalf - they laud his actions and consider Reagan a hero."

Um, hello, I've lived next door for years, my adopted brother was from Nicaragua, I work with Nicas and have Nica friends. You're wrong. Besides that even if you were right it doesn't justify using drug money to buy arms from Iran (um didn't we have a little hostage problem with them) to fuel an secret, illegal, military action. Nor does it justify setting up secret military bases in Costa Rica to train contras. How much illegal spending do you think went on for ronnie to play G.I. Joe in Nicaragua and Costa Rica. By the way, "Reagans South America policies", I don't think it's a "policy" when you hide it from the U.S. public and congress.

"If the American people thought Reagan was so terrible, they sure as hell would not have re-elected him. And if possible, they would have re-elected him to a third term."

No one has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. ronnie was the first great success for the right at marketing the dumbed down, average joe politician.

"I brought the house I live in while Carter was President - I paid a mortgage rate of 15 and seven eighths percent. Reagan helped bring the percentage rate down to 9 percent, and he helped create a more productive economy."

By ridiculous spending that we had to recover from, again greatest creditor to greatest debtor nation in 8 years.

"The supply side economy that was started by Reagan has continued to this day and is the foundation that todays great econmy is built on. Remember that you've never waited in a gas line or lived in an economy where unemployment was in the double digits; where it was common for people to work two full time jobs ( I did for a while in the '70's, with a wife and three kids to take care of. )"

No wasn't old enough to drive so I missed the lines at the gas stations. However this part..."where it was common for people to work two full time jobs ( I did for a while in the '70's, with a wife and three kids to take care of. )"..., well can you say the 80's. I didn't mind so much making $3.50 an hour, I think it was, as a teenager, I was just making beer money. Although I really felt bad for the other guys on the assembly lines that raced from one factory to another pulling 16 hour work days to try and put food on the table for their kids. A lot of minimum wage jobs doesn't mean people enjoy a better standard of living. Aside from that, living in Wyoming at the time ronnie was elected, I remember the oil industry out west going bust and the real estate market collapsing. Then even in the late 80's I remember college profs at state schools making less than 30k a year. Of course I was ecstatic to learn that for my first year of college I was entitled to a whopping $1700 in GSL, while ironically my Dad had been able to finance all of his tution for his master's through GSL just before ronnie took office. Yeah great economic times.

"One of the problems woith being young nowadays is that you've never lived through a bad economy. I hope you never have such an experience."

I've heard my whole life that the baby boomers were the first generation not expected to do better than their parents financially. How do you figure that us 25-35ish offspring of the boomers have had it so easy?
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bblight:
Lander - do you want me to stay on the back of the bus - and not be heard? Do you think I should just go back to the plantation? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At one time black right supporters were the "liberals" and at another time the supporters of a women's right to vote were the "liberals" ...

... I agree with only a bit of the modern day's liberal agenda, but there's something to be said for evolving, no? In a sense, given the relativity of the term - we're mostly all a bit liberal.

Of course, that's unless you think that black equality and women's voting are a travesty to America.

Blight, are you in favor of slavery?
 

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