Skyweasel... here's your answer, buddy...
Skyweasel... The way I approach the issue of "sharps" is pretty much the way Mr. Shrink has addressed the issue. I allow the sharps to play in order that I can fade a few dimes then move their action to offshores like Pinnacle or a Dallas or Houston local man that will take larger action of say 10K per play at each store. Early in the season you can make good money by following the sharps in doing what they do best. One must remember that the sharp money is generally not considered "steam" because there will not be that many gamblers on it... as a general rule. Now, you can ship me all the "steam" you would like from the tout services after say six weeks into the NCAA college or NFL season because I know that I'm gonna beat the public once the line tightens up just a tiny bit. The trick is that the general public does not have the discipline necessary to keep from trying to get even. They, in turn get "buried." That being said, the sharps will hammer away at your cash "liquidity" position early on in a season if you don't keep them on a tight leash. It is a semi-symbiotic relationship.
Here's a story for you... A couple of years back, I was approached by a bagman for a real sharp that everybody knows as BW and BigBoy. Yeah, the same guys that you are thinkin' about. The bag men wanted to lay $7500.00-$10,000.00 per play into my store and I told him that I would get back to him. I thought about it for a couple of days and simply decided that I did'nt want the risk associated with handling their action. You ask why not? It was easy for me to make the decision. First, there was gonna be a ton of plays (8-15) each day of the NCAA basketball season. I had to micromanage his action... basically allocating one full-time phone guy for his stuff alone. I could get drowned if not handled properly. Second, as a fader, I had no way of knowing if BW was feeding me the "real goods" or the "bait." If it were bait, and I decided to lay it off and add 10K with it in various holes, I would lose my a$$ if I were not on the "real" stuff. BW is famous for laying "bait" and then pounding the hell out of a number that has been crushed or inflated by either his bag men or the general public. His bagmen can move a line pretty good early in the season by betting 50K-100K on a given teams early in the week to the big stores like Pinny, WWTS, and a few big stateside shops. Then, after they pound the line down artificially with this "bait money" they can bet 1.5-2.5 million dollars on the line where they really want the number. They will spread this huge betting figure out over a bunch of stores both offshore and stateside generally on gameday. All they did was use sharp stores that are watched by other sharp stores on Don Best Premium Service to manipulate their lines to what "number" they were looking for. Problem is, you don't always know for sure what's up until after tip-off or kickoff and you hear what happened ex-post facto from other sources. And, brother, let me tell you... these sources don't leak info for fear of being taken out of the loop of information.
:kicking:
A friend of mine thought I was crazy for not accepting this "hot" action. He faded 5K-10K per game the year after and beat the boys out of over 400K in the first eight weeks of the season. Boy, was he thrilled... for the moment. "Don't worry" he told me. "I'm way up on them." Well, the group caught fire and then beat my friend out of over a million dollars the following season because he was just fading their action instead of fading a small figure and moving the rest around to spread the risk. He got greedy and it screwed him.
:guillotin Needless to say we don't discuss that anymore but I always keep the story in the back of my head when I get asked to fade the "sharp" money with wreckless disregard for my own bankroll. It is not prudent because you are not getting the proper odds on your money... YOU ARE GAMBLING!!!
I know that I have not thrown every detail into this story. However, the true basic details are here. I know that I may have cost myself and my operation a lot of money by not accepting this groups action because I feel that our shop would have managed the risk better and more efficiently than that of my friend's shop... but, I can surely tell you that I slept better than my friend after he lost his a$$... and your family, health and sanity is truley what it is all about when you boil it down to the bare essentials of life. I ask you, "What is your family, health and sanity worth?"...
I hope this story and answer helps some of you out here at the Rx. From time to time I'll try to share war stories with you guys if you enjoy my writing and stories. These stories come from the trenches of day-to-day wagering in the real world. I take a great quantity of valuable insight and information from this website. Occassionally, it feels good to return the favor and contribute to one's society.
I wish each of you the very best.
Respectfully,
Betguy :howdy:
Skyweasel... The way I approach the issue of "sharps" is pretty much the way Mr. Shrink has addressed the issue. I allow the sharps to play in order that I can fade a few dimes then move their action to offshores like Pinnacle or a Dallas or Houston local man that will take larger action of say 10K per play at each store. Early in the season you can make good money by following the sharps in doing what they do best. One must remember that the sharp money is generally not considered "steam" because there will not be that many gamblers on it... as a general rule. Now, you can ship me all the "steam" you would like from the tout services after say six weeks into the NCAA college or NFL season because I know that I'm gonna beat the public once the line tightens up just a tiny bit. The trick is that the general public does not have the discipline necessary to keep from trying to get even. They, in turn get "buried." That being said, the sharps will hammer away at your cash "liquidity" position early on in a season if you don't keep them on a tight leash. It is a semi-symbiotic relationship.
Here's a story for you... A couple of years back, I was approached by a bagman for a real sharp that everybody knows as BW and BigBoy. Yeah, the same guys that you are thinkin' about. The bag men wanted to lay $7500.00-$10,000.00 per play into my store and I told him that I would get back to him. I thought about it for a couple of days and simply decided that I did'nt want the risk associated with handling their action. You ask why not? It was easy for me to make the decision. First, there was gonna be a ton of plays (8-15) each day of the NCAA basketball season. I had to micromanage his action... basically allocating one full-time phone guy for his stuff alone. I could get drowned if not handled properly. Second, as a fader, I had no way of knowing if BW was feeding me the "real goods" or the "bait." If it were bait, and I decided to lay it off and add 10K with it in various holes, I would lose my a$$ if I were not on the "real" stuff. BW is famous for laying "bait" and then pounding the hell out of a number that has been crushed or inflated by either his bag men or the general public. His bagmen can move a line pretty good early in the season by betting 50K-100K on a given teams early in the week to the big stores like Pinny, WWTS, and a few big stateside shops. Then, after they pound the line down artificially with this "bait money" they can bet 1.5-2.5 million dollars on the line where they really want the number. They will spread this huge betting figure out over a bunch of stores both offshore and stateside generally on gameday. All they did was use sharp stores that are watched by other sharp stores on Don Best Premium Service to manipulate their lines to what "number" they were looking for. Problem is, you don't always know for sure what's up until after tip-off or kickoff and you hear what happened ex-post facto from other sources. And, brother, let me tell you... these sources don't leak info for fear of being taken out of the loop of information.
:kicking:
A friend of mine thought I was crazy for not accepting this "hot" action. He faded 5K-10K per game the year after and beat the boys out of over 400K in the first eight weeks of the season. Boy, was he thrilled... for the moment. "Don't worry" he told me. "I'm way up on them." Well, the group caught fire and then beat my friend out of over a million dollars the following season because he was just fading their action instead of fading a small figure and moving the rest around to spread the risk. He got greedy and it screwed him.
:guillotin Needless to say we don't discuss that anymore but I always keep the story in the back of my head when I get asked to fade the "sharp" money with wreckless disregard for my own bankroll. It is not prudent because you are not getting the proper odds on your money... YOU ARE GAMBLING!!!
I know that I have not thrown every detail into this story. However, the true basic details are here. I know that I may have cost myself and my operation a lot of money by not accepting this groups action because I feel that our shop would have managed the risk better and more efficiently than that of my friend's shop... but, I can surely tell you that I slept better than my friend after he lost his a$$... and your family, health and sanity is truley what it is all about when you boil it down to the bare essentials of life. I ask you, "What is your family, health and sanity worth?"...
I hope this story and answer helps some of you out here at the Rx. From time to time I'll try to share war stories with you guys if you enjoy my writing and stories. These stories come from the trenches of day-to-day wagering in the real world. I take a great quantity of valuable insight and information from this website. Occassionally, it feels good to return the favor and contribute to one's society.
I wish each of you the very best.
Respectfully,
Betguy :howdy:
Thanks Betguy
That was a great response. So let me ask a follow-up: Not every 'sharp' out there is BW or a mover or part of a syndicate or just some forlorn steam-chaser wannabe :think2:scalper. Do you treat them differently? Just say some guy who handicaps well and wants to play say 1-5 dimes/game with you?
I don't suppose you're going to tell us which book you work for? :coffeetim
That was a great response. So let me ask a follow-up: Not every 'sharp' out there is BW or a mover or part of a syndicate or just some forlorn steam-chaser wannabe :think2:scalper. Do you treat them differently? Just say some guy who handicaps well and wants to play say 1-5 dimes/game with you?
I don't suppose you're going to tell us which book you work for? :coffeetim
Full disclosure in this business is crucial. I own my own book with a partnership that handles approx +/- 6000 clients both offshore and stateside. Started with another gents local store in early 80's with just 40 players and it grew from there. The islands is the only way to travel because it is the legal way... I cannot stress the importance of that fact. You may lose the bets that evening but your a$$ is at home with the wife and not in jail with charges pending.
That said... I will fade the small sharps at 2-3 dimes per play. Keep them around for their information only... Goes back to "fade a little, pass thru a little!"
We should talk sometime. I'll look forward to it.
Best regards,
Betguy :howdy:
ms.english@comcast.net
That said... I will fade the small sharps at 2-3 dimes per play. Keep them around for their information only... Goes back to "fade a little, pass thru a little!"
We should talk sometime. I'll look forward to it.
Best regards,
Betguy :howdy:
ms.english@comcast.net
