well said, in many respects the u.s. is the country with the most effective propaganda mechanisms ever in the world. How else can you explain that in a highly individualistic capitalist system where 95% of the news media are controlled by ultra right multibillionaires or multibillion conglomarates you can have most people convinced that the liberals or the lefties run the media. When 95% of the news media either directly own oil, car factories, electronics factories, big retailer chains, etc. or are owned by them. Ted Turner a commie, general electric owning nbc reds?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> America's image takes a beating over war on terrorism <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
“I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be.” -T. Jefferson (1743-1826) Letter 12 June 1815.
Funny thing is that America has not been taking the beating over the war on terrorism from the people affected the most…Americans.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "Is it better to be loved or feared?"
The boss replies by saying that its great to be both, but that's almost impossible to achieve, and if you if you have to choose between the two, then it is better to be feared. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Power, control and the hope of leadership obtained by the stick of fear is a flawed mans’ thinking…as historically witnessed, by the fall of the Roman Empire, the defeat of Hitler, the failure of Communism, and the current world’s view of Saddam Hussein as well as Cowboy Bush and the United States.
“He who fears something gives it power over him.” Moorish proverb.
True leadership can never be held by the hands which, swing only the stick of FEAR, but rather by those which direct resolve in non-violent ways.
Simple Game. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
[This message was edited by Simple Game on 12-08-02 at 03:11 AM.]
“I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be.” -T. Jefferson (1743-1826) Letter 12 June 1815.
Funny thing is that America has not been taking the beating over the war on terrorism from the people affected the most…Americans.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "Is it better to be loved or feared?"
The boss replies by saying that its great to be both, but that's almost impossible to achieve, and if you if you have to choose between the two, then it is better to be feared. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Power, control and the hope of leadership obtained by the stick of fear is a flawed mans’ thinking…as historically witnessed, by the fall of the Roman Empire, the defeat of Hitler, the failure of Communism, and the current world’s view of Saddam Hussein as well as Cowboy Bush and the United States.
“He who fears something gives it power over him.” Moorish proverb.
True leadership can never be held by the hands which, swing only the stick of FEAR, but rather by those which direct resolve in non-violent ways.
Simple Game. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
[This message was edited by Simple Game on 12-08-02 at 03:11 AM.]
yes, i was being sarcastic in an attempt to put across the point of how effective a propaganda is when you have the majority of the citizens believe that the corporate media is "leftist" and ultra rigth wingers such as Ted Turner, general electric co. etc. are reds and commies.
"I'd prefer it if the good ol u.s. of a refrained from protecting myself and my country out of the goodness of their heart."
i wonder if you would feel the same if someone like huissein or hitler was invading your country?
i doubt it.
all these countries want to bitch and whine until they need something, then america is their "best friend"
i sometimes wonder if the powers that be in the good ole usa realize that england is one of the only true friends we have.
i wonder if you would feel the same if someone like huissein or hitler was invading your country?
i doubt it.
all these countries want to bitch and whine until they need something, then america is their "best friend"
i sometimes wonder if the powers that be in the good ole usa realize that england is one of the only true friends we have.
rpm, there's no friendships between nations, only between people. If the u.s. either invades or assists another country it's because the leaders and militarists think that this is the best way to protect THEIR interests, they never have and never will do it out of the goodness of their hearts.
Hitler was actually half endorsed and half tolerated by the capitalist western leaders because they thought they d best protect their interests this way. They believed hitler would turn against the soviet union, and they feared the possibility of a communist revolution in germany much more than the reality of fascism. Besides fascism allowed the free flow and investment of their capital. So they handed chez republic over to hitler. (btw a large percentage of the german army was built by general motors and general electric /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) When their plan backfired and they realised that hitler had not only the intention of invading the soviets but the rest of the western world too, they then went to war. Many people in the u.s. where open admirers of hitler, henry ford amongst others. But when the u.s. itself feared for their interests being compromised due to a world dominion by germans and japs that's when they joined the war.
So, whether hitler of hussein invaded my country i know for a fact that the u.s., as any other country, would never "help", they d just intervene or not intervene according to their interests.
As Mao ZeDong said, "Politics is war without bloodshed, while war is politics with bloodshed".
Hitler was actually half endorsed and half tolerated by the capitalist western leaders because they thought they d best protect their interests this way. They believed hitler would turn against the soviet union, and they feared the possibility of a communist revolution in germany much more than the reality of fascism. Besides fascism allowed the free flow and investment of their capital. So they handed chez republic over to hitler. (btw a large percentage of the german army was built by general motors and general electric /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) When their plan backfired and they realised that hitler had not only the intention of invading the soviets but the rest of the western world too, they then went to war. Many people in the u.s. where open admirers of hitler, henry ford amongst others. But when the u.s. itself feared for their interests being compromised due to a world dominion by germans and japs that's when they joined the war.
So, whether hitler of hussein invaded my country i know for a fact that the u.s., as any other country, would never "help", they d just intervene or not intervene according to their interests.
As Mao ZeDong said, "Politics is war without bloodshed, while war is politics with bloodshed".
FIRST OF ALL, the soviet union was not an enemy of the u.s. at that time.
lastly, yes you are right. america only tries to help people when they have interests involved.
for instance, we didnt want to lose the great deal we had for rice and kim chee, thats why we were involved in korea and vietnam. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
lastly, yes you are right. america only tries to help people when they have interests involved.
for instance, we didnt want to lose the great deal we had for rice and kim chee, thats why we were involved in korea and vietnam. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i wonder if you would feel the same if someone like huissein or hitler was invading your country?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What are you talking about ?
Last time I checked Hitler was dead and Saddam has allowed UN inspectors to inspect whatever they want !
I'll say this again, during the Gulf war the Us had a reason to go after the Saddam and take him out and they chose not to. Now this cowboy's in office and this crap again of weapons of mass destuction.
Spare me the bullshit we all know it's about the oil.
If W was really for protecting the people of the world against weapons of mass destruction he should go after India & Pakistan first as these two dumbass countries have their nukes up eachother butts ready to fire them as soon as one of them sneezes.
------------------------------
If it's true that we are here to help others,then what exactly are the others here for?
What are you talking about ?
Last time I checked Hitler was dead and Saddam has allowed UN inspectors to inspect whatever they want !
I'll say this again, during the Gulf war the Us had a reason to go after the Saddam and take him out and they chose not to. Now this cowboy's in office and this crap again of weapons of mass destuction.
Spare me the bullshit we all know it's about the oil.
If W was really for protecting the people of the world against weapons of mass destruction he should go after India & Pakistan first as these two dumbass countries have their nukes up eachother butts ready to fire them as soon as one of them sneezes.
------------------------------
If it's true that we are here to help others,then what exactly are the others here for?
Funny, prior to invading Poland, Germany and Russia entered into a non-aggressive pack...with under-the-table terms of dividing Poland in the future.
Stalin and Hitler...Friends or Foes?
Two power-egos driven only by self-interest behavior responsible for murdering millions to satisfy their thirst.
Friends to none, foe to all...including themselves.
Simple Game. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Stalin and Hitler...Friends or Foes?
Two power-egos driven only by self-interest behavior responsible for murdering millions to satisfy their thirst.
Friends to none, foe to all...including themselves.
Simple Game. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
FIRST OF ALL, the soviet union was not an enemy of the u.s. at that time.
Granted, but when i refered to western leaders and hitler i meant europian leaders, because at that time germany was too far removed from the u.s. and not alied with japan to pose any serious threat to the u.s.
"for instance, we didnt want to lose the great deal we had for rice and kim chee, thats why we were involved in korea and vietnam."
It's very honest from your part to say that, but i wonder how much of the monetary gains from korea and vietnam went back to the u.s. people and how much to the then fortune 500.
Granted, but when i refered to western leaders and hitler i meant europian leaders, because at that time germany was too far removed from the u.s. and not alied with japan to pose any serious threat to the u.s.
"for instance, we didnt want to lose the great deal we had for rice and kim chee, thats why we were involved in korea and vietnam."
It's very honest from your part to say that, but i wonder how much of the monetary gains from korea and vietnam went back to the u.s. people and how much to the then fortune 500.
you act like the u.s. is just going to take over iraq and make it an american colony.
whether or not we ivade iraq, opec will still set the prices for oil, and usa will still buy it from them.
on a side note, america has its own oil reserves to keep our country running at current levels of consuption for about 300 years.
iraq is a country that supports terrorists, and has a nut for a leader. have you any idea of the capabilities of biological/chemical weapons? there is some truly nasty shit out there, and it doesnt belong in the hands of someone like saddam.
whether or not we ivade iraq, opec will still set the prices for oil, and usa will still buy it from them.
on a side note, america has its own oil reserves to keep our country running at current levels of consuption for about 300 years.
iraq is a country that supports terrorists, and has a nut for a leader. have you any idea of the capabilities of biological/chemical weapons? there is some truly nasty shit out there, and it doesnt belong in the hands of someone like saddam.
monetary gains from korea/vietnam? i dont understand.
are you saying the usa gained money from those conflicts?
are you saying the usa gained money from those conflicts?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>whether or not we ivade iraq, opec will still set the prices for oil, and usa will still buy it from them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What countries does OPEC consist of ?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>on a side note, america has its own oil reserves to keep our country running at current levels of consuption for about 300 years.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I suggest you check your sources again buddy !
------------------------------
If it's true that we are here to help others,then what exactly are the others here for?
What countries does OPEC consist of ?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>on a side note, america has its own oil reserves to keep our country running at current levels of consuption for about 300 years.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I suggest you check your sources again buddy !
------------------------------
If it's true that we are here to help others,then what exactly are the others here for?
"Funny, prior to invading Poland, Germany and Russia entered into a non-aggressive pack...with under-the-table terms of dividing Poland in the future.
Stalin and Hitler...Friends or Foes?
Two power-egos driven only by self-interest behavior responsible for murdering millions to satisfy their thirst.
Friends to none, foe to all...including themselves."
That's an oversimplification. The non agression treaty between Stalin and Hitler was made after the west had turned down a number of stalin's overtures for a united western front against hitler. Stalin realised, and he was correct, that the capitalist west was trying to turn hitler against him, so he signed the treaty. A similar "alliance" was formed between french, english and german when they handed hitler the check republic. As for the mass murders it's not just leaders character traits that caused them, but larger political and economic interests. For example the forced industrilization that stalin had to put the country through due to the german threat and later on the u.s. antagonism and cold war lead to the gulah and the mass murders and ultimately to the collapse of the economy, as well as to a centralised autocratic power structure.
hungover, dont forget who sold them these weapons of mass destruction in india, pakistan and irak in the first place. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Stalin and Hitler...Friends or Foes?
Two power-egos driven only by self-interest behavior responsible for murdering millions to satisfy their thirst.
Friends to none, foe to all...including themselves."
That's an oversimplification. The non agression treaty between Stalin and Hitler was made after the west had turned down a number of stalin's overtures for a united western front against hitler. Stalin realised, and he was correct, that the capitalist west was trying to turn hitler against him, so he signed the treaty. A similar "alliance" was formed between french, english and german when they handed hitler the check republic. As for the mass murders it's not just leaders character traits that caused them, but larger political and economic interests. For example the forced industrilization that stalin had to put the country through due to the german threat and later on the u.s. antagonism and cold war lead to the gulah and the mass murders and ultimately to the collapse of the economy, as well as to a centralised autocratic power structure.
hungover, dont forget who sold them these weapons of mass destruction in india, pakistan and irak in the first place. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
rpm, not direct monetary gains, but indirect ones due to the broader scope of countries influenced.
let me reword my statement. usa has the ability with their own oil interests.
reserves is not the proper wording. the untapped oil off the coast of california alone is estimated to be as rich or even more so than the entire middle east.
reserves is not the proper wording. the untapped oil off the coast of california alone is estimated to be as rich or even more so than the entire middle east.
and has a nut for a leader. have you any idea of the capabilities of biological/chemical weapons? there is some truly nasty shit out there, and it doesnt belong in the hands of someone like saddam.
what is unusual with having a "nut" for a leader.
anyway gearge w is just as big a nut as saddam and represents a far, far bigger threat to the rest of the world than saddam ever could.
if i could choose which one to depose it would not even be close.
simple game --- i am very impressed with your posts AND your quotations ( i assume you are american, yes ?? ).
what is unusual with having a "nut" for a leader.
anyway gearge w is just as big a nut as saddam and represents a far, far bigger threat to the rest of the world than saddam ever could.
if i could choose which one to depose it would not even be close.
simple game --- i am very impressed with your posts AND your quotations ( i assume you are american, yes ?? ).
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Funny thing is that America has not been taking the beating over the war on terrorism from the people affected the most… Americans. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> True leadership can never be held by the hands, which swing only the stick of FEAR, but rather by those which direct resolve in non-violent ways. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Indeed, it's not easy opening minds.
For my friend entropy...
One of my favorites thoughts:
“Mankind is more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.” T. Jefferson The Declaration of Independence, 4 July 1776.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> assume you are american, yes <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
American?
No, I am Patriot. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
For my very special Patriotic friends, some recommended reading:
"The Freeman"
http://www.feenews.org/
Always vote... Vote LIBERTARIAN.
Simple Game. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> True leadership can never be held by the hands, which swing only the stick of FEAR, but rather by those which direct resolve in non-violent ways. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Indeed, it's not easy opening minds.
For my friend entropy...
One of my favorites thoughts:
“Mankind is more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.” T. Jefferson The Declaration of Independence, 4 July 1776.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> assume you are american, yes <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
American?
No, I am Patriot. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
For my very special Patriotic friends, some recommended reading:
"The Freeman"
http://www.feenews.org/
Always vote... Vote LIBERTARIAN.
Simple Game. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Jack Dee,
It's obvious from your posts that you have a significant level of education. I am curious though. Would you consider yourself a Marxist? I have seen you defend Stalin and his motives on a few occasions, and you've been hostile to capitalism in several posts, and I know there's a strong Communist presence in your home country of Greece. If you don't consider yourself a Marxist, I would be interested in hearing what you DO consider yourself politically. Thanks.
It's obvious from your posts that you have a significant level of education. I am curious though. Would you consider yourself a Marxist? I have seen you defend Stalin and his motives on a few occasions, and you've been hostile to capitalism in several posts, and I know there's a strong Communist presence in your home country of Greece. If you don't consider yourself a Marxist, I would be interested in hearing what you DO consider yourself politically. Thanks.
I read "atlas shrugged" when i was 18 yrs old and it had a major impact on my life and the way i viewed it.
i consider myself an iconoclastic libertarian. many of my american professional gambler friends ( card counters long time ago ) were ayn rand admirers.
but i don't get the NRA -- i think american gun laws are insane. only now does it occur to me this is inconsistent with my libertarian beliefs.
i consider myself an iconoclastic libertarian. many of my american professional gambler friends ( card counters long time ago ) were ayn rand admirers.
but i don't get the NRA -- i think american gun laws are insane. only now does it occur to me this is inconsistent with my libertarian beliefs.
