America sends homos back to Canada

[JackDee]

"If it's all about choice, why shouldn't it be legal for father and daughter to marry, or son and mom. Shouldn't that be included in a freedon of chocie too?

If society caved in to every distorted social behaviour in the name of choice, it would be a pretty fcked up place to live."

Incest although practised through out the ages was never, in no social structure, institutionalised or endorsed, while homosexual behaviour has been at leas tolerated in a many social formations. Biological deformities in children from parents of similar genomes are the norm. These two, incest, and sexual intercourse between two adults of the same sex, are not even close to compare.

Normality, and not only terms of sexual behaviour, is a huge issue, in my view there should be tolerance, but obviously some behaviours are clearly perverted and or inhumane and those practising them should be either punished or rehabilitated if that is possible. Obviously homosexual intercourse proper is not one of them. I might personaly not like it, and at times i might even be revolted by some of the more show off-ish gay couples, but that does not mean i dont comprehend their sexual preference, and respect it. That's tolerance.

Other than that, society is a fvcked up place, to begin with, not because of some liberal allowing gay bars in your local neighboorhood. A handfull of people, like the waltons or gates, have got something like half the worlds wealth, while at the same time whole continents such as africa are dying of famine and desease. That imo is far more "fvcked up". Of course most conservatives prefer the closed doors and ostrich practise of turning a blind eye and pretending the problem isn't there to begin with.

 

[UncleMoneybags]

Eh?,

Those are legal papers in Canada. We are a sovereign nation and do not have to recognize a damn thing that Canada passes in their legislative sessions. If they want to be called a family, they can do so there. If they want to visit the U.S. they're just S.O.L.

Is our differing laws the reason you want us to blow you?

I hope not. If so, you may want to look at any nation in the Middle East where they actually kill you for this personal choice.

 

[UncleMoneybags]

Just to clarify my previous post, I am not sure about the legality of it in Israel but I'm pretty sure they don't chop your head off.

 

[Jazz]

Anyone know for a fact the legal basis on which they were prevented from entering as a 'family'. So far, this topic has evolved into a 'gay good - gay bad' argument, when I think the issue instead has to do with the rights of a sovereign nation not to be forced to accept the stated marital status of foreign nationals when those unions are not recognized as having legality in the U.S.. I don't know, since the article Rail posted doesn't go into the underpinning for the incident, but I have to wonder that if the U.S. began recognizing gay marriages from another country, that one of 2 things could happen: they would then have to recognize them for U.S. citizens or for immigrants who later become citizens, which obviously is not the case. It is a question of foreign policy, I believe.

If you want to bitch about the fact that gay marriages are not officially recognized in the U.S., fine. I personally would like to take a poll of all foreign countries who don't recognize gay marriages and see how many of those would extend official recognition for incoming foreign gay married couples.

 

[Jazz]

Also, before anyone gets overly agitated, I would bet you on the spot that this entire incident was staged on purpose by these 2, who were going to a conference to raise funds for gay rights, and who are long-time activists. "Bourassa said they decided not to fill out separate forms because they felt it was an insult to their dignity." Bullshit - they did it for activist reasons, they've been in the U.S. AFTER their Canadian marriage and never felt it was an insult then. Want to get your dignity REALLY insulted? Go to Saudi Arabia.

It doesn't change the facts of the case, but it does at least inform you that these are long-time activists, not doe-eyed innocents. Do a Google search on their names and you'll see a LOT of hits ...

Kevin Bourassa (b. 1958) Born in Saskatoon, and raised in Ontario, France, and Germany, Kevin moved to Toronto in 1976 to attend university. School was soon overshadowed by opportunities in radio and print media, as a talk-show producer/engineer, FM Radio disc jockey, music journalist, and magazine editor. Kevin turned to more conventional employment, in the 1980’s, working as a computer programmer and analyst. The 1990’s brought a transition out of information technology and into banking, where Kevin was a director, specializing in process management, until May 2002. Kevin is now a writer and advocate for equal marriage.

Joe Varnell (b.1969), a Toronto native son, discovered the awesome potential of a classical education early in life. Armed with a thorough knowledge of the history and drama of Elizabeth’s England, Joe naturally turned to teaching and playing bridge for a living. He continued in this mainstream career until he met the man of his dreams and returned to school to become a web developer. After working on the web sites of a financial institution, and a consumer electronics company, Joe is now a manager (Content Operations), in a bank's Internet division.

They have written a critically acclaimed book about their wedding, "Just Married", published by Doubleday in Canada and by the University of Wisconsin Press in the United States of America. A French translation of Just Married has been published by Les Éditions Stanké in 2003.

Kevin and Joe have travelled to Europe, the U.S.A., and across Canada, advocating marriage equality through appearances, fundraisers, parades, speeches, and rallies. The couple are members of the Coalition For Marc Hall and they are active in building other alliances in and outside of the gay community.

Joe and Kevin were on the 2002 faculty of the International Lesbian and Gay Law Association's conference on marriage, partnerships and parenting (Turin, Italy), and they were featured authors at the 2002 Ottawa International Writers Festival.

The couple will bring their compelling message to new audiences throughout 2003. Their planned engagements include:


reading from Just Married on the Lambda Wilde About Sappho literary tour (Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto),
speaking at Borders and Boundaries law symposium (organized by Spinlaw: University of Toronto Law School and Osgoode Hall Law School),
a 7-city pride speaking/appearance tour, with the honour of being grand marshals for parades in London, Halifax and Saint John,
conducting human rights workshops at an ecumenical gathering of Christians in Philadelphia (WOW2003), and
serving as panelists at the Gill Foundation's OutGiving 2003 conference (Georgia).

They are widely published authors, with an appeal to a diverse audience. During 2003/2004 their new writing will appear in an assortment of commercial magazines, in addition to placements in adjudicated academic publications, including the international journal Feminism & Psychology (Sage Publications, U.K.), and the historic University of New Brunswick Law Journal.

Kevin and Joe have accepted invitations to speak at many universities and colleges including:

Carleton University
Centennial College
Dalhousie Law School
George Brown College
Mount Allison University
Mount Saint Vincent University
St. Thomas University
University of New Bunswick
University of New Brunswick Law School
University of New Hampshire
University of Ottawa

The couple love to cook at home with friends. For adventure, they like to travel or explore the arts together, as consumers and creators. The two were executive producers for a classical music CD featuring The Onyx Wind Quintet (1999). They hope to foster additional projects in the arts, long into their twilight years. They share their home with Daphne, sister of the late Chloe (1995-2003).

 

[corey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Railbird:
I would love to jump off a 30 story building...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now open for shots...

 

[corey]

PS Of course they did it for the publicity... and yes - who cares?..GWB executed people for publicity.

 

[Jazz]

Nanuk - your response indicates that you don't know it does matter. I always like to know the motivations of people and articles - that article said absolutely nothing about their background, which to mean at best means the writer was too lazy to research it and at worse means the writer had an agenda.

Anyhow, I notice you threw GWB into the mix and totally ignored my point about why the U.S. would have not allowed them in with that designation. A discussion requires more than one person to graduate from name-calling - care to comment then on my point, or will everything you answer to require the invocation of a Bush?

 

[D2bets]

Just a hypothetical here: Let's say Canada did not recognize interracial marriage. A black man and white woman wanted to enter Canada. Canada said they had to fill out their clearance forms as single persons to enter and could not fill out the forms as "family".

Jazz, this question's to you -- would you be OK with Canada's actions just as you're OK with the US's actions here? If not, what is the distinction?

 

[Jazz]

Good question, D2. Yes, in the sense that a foreign country has the right to do whatever they want without us imposing our views on them - just as these activists staged this border non-incident for publicity - there is no way in hell the U.S. will recognize gay marriages because of them - if that ever comes, it will be due for other reasons, not 2 Canadians with a stick up their ... their ... well, in their craws.

As far as your question, if that's Canada's policy, then what would need to be done is for Canadians as a whole to change their policy, if we don't as a nation agree with them. I would think that's pathetic, but then I'd surely be shot in other countries for a lot of IDEAS I have, so each country has its sovereign right to decide who they will accept into the country, and how.

But their motivation reveals why they did this - it won't lead anywhere, Congress is not going to drop their skirts and immediately pass a law. This incident will, however, make them the toast of their fund-raising circles and give them some tasty material for their next book.

One final thing - they weren't denied entry period, they were denied entry by claiming themselves as a family - again, I don't know for sure, but I think the reason is as I stated.

 

[corey]

Why the hostility man?

I agreed it was for publicity. I just don't care either way. I mentioned Bush just as an example of what people will do for PR these days.

On another note, as a matter of protocol I believe most countries do recognize marriages from other countries - I think that was the whole point of the stunt.

 

[D2bets]

You're a good politician Jazz. I think you answered YES, but I'm not sure. So you would support Canada's right to refuse entry to the interracial couple claiming as a "family"?

** You could ubstitute interfaith marriage as well, same issue.

 

[Jazz]

sorry, nanuk - you simply used the phrase I just hate - the 'who cares' phrase - lol. I figured someone had to care because I wasn't the one who started this topic.

I also would hazard a guess that those other countries define marriage as between a man and a woman, and there was no specific info in the article that broke down which countries would have the same reaction as the U.S. did.

Also, and I'm thinking this might be likely too, is that maybe there is no foreign policy implication here, and that some homophobe of a border guard didn't feel like letting them get through that day because they were driving a better car than he could ever afford - and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

 

[corey]

I wonder what would happen if a Dutch couple stepped off a plane.

If I were in charge of the homo-publicity (FYI I don't bat from that side!) the next step would be to get into the US and then try to get some kind of social service - like breaking a leg and having to go to a hospital. Think of all the bees that would stir up.

 

[corey]

PS I'm sure they wouldn't even get into Saudi Arabia - or at least get out with their peckers intact.

 

[vinividivinci]

eh?


Finally we find some common ground, something on which we can agree. I, too, would rather see you dead than to see you an American!!

The sad truth is we have already exceeded our quota of teenage sissys. I guess it is easy to hate your protector when you have no bully to fear. Give it time, though, and your country will need us again.

I'm sure we'll be right there for you too, just like we always have been. Good luck with your games this weekend, if you're old enough to gamble.


VVV

 

[corey]

VVV

Not to get into here - again - but Canada really doesn't need protection from anyone - we only have one border.

Now play nice kiddies.

 

[vinividivinci]

nanuk

Well, at least you got your homos back.


VVV

 

[BigGamesOnly]

Tolerance takes courage.

It is easy to label and criticize those who are different from us. But to allow someone else to be different takes courage because we are uncertain of who they are or what they may do. They may do something that disgusts us or makes us mad.

Why are people intolerant? Because they dislike someone or what they do so they use the majority as a crutch to affirm that they are right. Truly courageous people such as Ghandi, M.L. King, etc. have never hid behind the majority and have always been in the minority and were alway persecuted for being different.

 

[corey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vinividivinci:
nanuk

Well, at least you got your homos back.


VVV<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are people - not property and I do not own them.