After GOP banned online gambling in 2006, Dems finally come through to reclaim our liberty

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Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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I believe it would be hard to shut down the internet.
Thus offshore books would be running and competing.

This being said "How did the US shutout Pinnacle"?

If I'm not mistaken, Pinnacle has several key ownership who are either American or they have cause to be within the USA frequently. As such they were potentially subject to arrest. And while they may likely have avoided conviction, they would have been spending mucho dinero to defend themselves against whatever charges the feds wanted to lay on them.

Other notable offshores are run by people who don't live in the US and/or don't set foot in the US.

Folks more knowledgeable on this topic than I are welcome to chime in.
 

Don't assume people in charge know what they are d
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Calvin Ayre the BoDog boy transfered his interests to an Indian Reserve. The ownership transfer guaranted him virtual immunity in Canada.

Laws are different in other countries, I guess?
 

"Here we go again"
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Mistermj is right, if you think the government will just hand out these licenses to existing offshore sportsbooks, your wrong. The government is criminal, deceptive, rogue, and everything they do is to benefit themselves, hence the fact we can't legally bet at pinnacle or betfair to begin with. HR-4411 was passed ENITRELY on bold faced lies which were sold to the ignorant general public.

They will selectively hand out licenses to their friends and more than likely it will be online casinos that pay out 15-20%. If there is a sportsbook it will most likely be -110 -110, and it's quite possible they won't allow wagering on college sports or pull shit like that.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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Mistermj is right, if you think the government will just hand out these licenses to existing offshore sportsbooks, your wrong.

Perhaps you haven't read the full thread.

I am also confident the US won't hand out licenses to offshore books because they don't have any legal authority in those other countries.

And the response of the offshore books will be to rock along just as they have for over a decade now.

As MMJ noted in another post, the language of the Frank bill at this moment does not include sports betting anyway. It's strictly discussing online casinos being run by operators within the USA

Offshore online casinos will not be impacted by this legislation if passed unless the newly licensed US online casinos can offer a competitive product.
 

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Nothing in your last post supports the notion that the offshore sports wagering industry will be unduly affected by passage of the proposed bill.

The US can put together whatever licensing requirements they wish for online sportsbooks and casinos to operate from a domestic location.

But if those licensed, domestic operators don't offer a sincerely competitive product, they'll have minimal impact on the existing offshore sportsbook industry.

I agree. The increased competition for the almighty gambling dollar will hopefully make it better for us. Long established offshore books should not be compromised. Books like Pinnacle will benefit and open their doors to US clients.... The downside: Never underestimate that numbnuts Barney Frank.. His involvement alone can definitely fvck everything up...
 

I'll be in the Bar..With my head on the Bar
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The title of this thread is both misleading and a lie. Dems have introduced simular legislation before...including last year when it couldnt get out of committee because the DEMOCRATS on the committee would not support it...go ck ur facts. Democrats defeated the last attempt .
And this time its even better....they dont need 1 republican vote to pass this or any other gaming law....OV/UND on them passing anything like this = 0 and ill take the low for the limit...
 

powdered milkman
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It's ridiculous and naive to think this bill is about leveling the playing field of online gaming.

C'mon!

Barney Frank has US Casino interests in his back pocket...we are all about to get the shaft.

This is about control, squeezing out offshore books, collecting taxes and forcing business to established US Casino's that are pumping lobby money to Barney.

Sure as hell when this is over...we will all be worse off than we are now.

I can't believe how easy the lefties are sucked into these traps based on a headline. :ohno:
not falling into any trap you are so quick into your rights and lefts.......i stated and i can guarantee you i know more about this than you........this bill passed or not passed wont affect any existing offshore books .......
 

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Here they come...this is a thug administration.

They will attack and shut down illegal gambling through the tax laws and IRS intimidation. All it takes is a few high profile prosecutions...and how many of us will want to take our chances anymore?

It's the same concept as the prosecutions against peer to peer music sharing.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama proposed on Thursday nearly doubling funds to enforce U.S. tax laws next year, with an aim of more than quadrupling funding for tax compliance to $2.1 billion within five years.

Obama seeks to double tax law enforcement budget | Reuters (7 May 2009)

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressReleasesMolt/idUSTRE5464DP20090507

Key point for online gamblers:

The Obama administration said it would use the funds to further expand its efforts to boost compliance outside the U.S., "placing greater scrutiny on cross-border transactions and tax issues."

Be afraid...be very afraid. It might take a couple of years, but the thugs are coming if you just read between the lines.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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MJ forecasts: They will attack and shut down illegal gambling through the tax laws and IRS intimidation. All it takes is a few high profile prosecutions...and how many of us will want to take our chances anymore?

BAR: You're clearly bored and just trying for some Shock Value here. "A few high profile prosecutions" has never in US history inhibited tens of millions of Americans from civilly disobeying laws against adult consensual behaviors.

See the absurd attempts by government to inhibit illicit drug use for the most pertinent analogy.

---
MMJ: It's the same concept as the prosecutions against peer to peer music sharing.

BAR: You mean the P2P sharing of copyrighted music and video that as I type this post is being engaged in by millions and millions of Americans with absolutely no fear of the government impeding them?

Your post implies that you might for a moment believe the feds when they claim they can "put a dent' in the illiicit drug market, the illicit gun market, the illicit sharing of computer files market.

I know that can't be the case, thus my assurance that you're playing pure Shock Value in this here thread.

All good.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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Key point for online gamblers:

The Obama administration said it would use the funds to further expand its efforts to boost compliance outside the U.S., "placing greater scrutiny on cross-border transactions and tax issues."


Been there, heard that.

The Nixon/Reagan/GHW Bush/Clinton/GW Bush administrations said they would increase funding to further expand its efforts to reduce the trafficking of illegal drugs, "placing greater scrutiny on border traffic both on land and on sea".

And after almost 40 years of such stern pledges from the feds, anyone in America who wants illicit drugs can score with ease if they have the money to pay.
 

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The Issue That Destroyed the GOP: Online Gaming & Poker
Thursday, May 7, 2009, 07:48 AM
Why They Still Haven’t Learned Their Lesson.

Why I Finally Agree on Something with Barney Frank.

By Wayne Allyn Root, 2008 Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee


I am asked constantly by talk show hosts across the USA why I left the GOP and became the leader of a national Libertarian movement for smaller government and economic and personal freedom. Nothing could symbolize my bold decision more than the issue of online poker and gaming. It was only 5 years ago that Republicans controlled every level of government from Congress, to the U.S. Senate, to the Presidency, to a majority of Governorships, and even a majority of state legislatures. Now they control NOTHING. Now Democrats control every one of those same levels of government. The Republican brand went from wildly popular to poison. Amazingly, Republicans haven't a clue how it happened. Worse, they're digging the hole deeper. I believe the meltdown of the GOP all started and crystallized with the Republican-led ban on online poker and gaming. Once again, this issue is roaring back to life to haunt the GOP. It may be the final death-blow.

Congressman Barney Frank, a politician that I have attacked with gusto on numerous occasions for his ultra-liberal fiscal views, unveiled a plan on Wednesday to legalize online gaming. For once, I find myself on the same side as Barney Frank and actually cheering his words. I never thought the day would come where I uttered these 7 words- “I love what Barney Frank just said.” I am a Barry Goldwater/Ronald Reagan disciple who believes the GOP has abandoned its fiscal conservative roots- and therefore abandoned me. When Congressman Barney Frank and I agree on something, you know that either hell has frozen over, or the GOP is in big trouble.

Plain and simple, gambling is an issue of FREEDOM and personal responsibility. What I do in my bedroom, on my computer, with my money is none of government's business. In any free society, I have a right to enjoy gambling as my choice of either entertainment, or investment, without government getting involved. It's that simple.

Gambling in my opinion is as American as apple pie. George Washington and Benjamin Franklin both enjoyed gambling. The original colonies successfully raised money with lotteries. Virtually any business decision involves financial risk. That is why the biggest winners on Wall Street are virtually all world-class gamblers with nerves of steel. That is why our wealthiest citizens are often business owners- what could be a bigger risk (or produce a bigger reward) than betting millions on a start-up? Entrepreneurship (risk-taking) is at the very heart of capitalism. Billions are risked every day on Wall Street. Billions are risked every day on the commodities market. Billions are risked on Main Street by small business owners. Without risk, there is no reward. Without risk-takers (capitalist gamblers), America could not be the world's greatest economic power. Those who attack and denigrate gambling, have no understanding of the very roots of capitalism.

Gambling has been in our blood and DNA from the first days of America. The world's biggest gamblers left their homelands, leaving behind their safe lives, to travel on dangerous boats, filled with disease, to a New World called America- often with no money, and no friends or relatives waiting on the other side. Later the pioneers risked their lives to travel thousands of miles in covered wagons, facing starvation, Indian attacks and disease to tame the Wild West. What would you call that? Playing it safe? The very idea of America is symbolized by gambling, throwing caution to the wind, betting your life on a new start in a new land.

The Republican-led ban of online gaming badly damaged the Republican brand. It was all downhill from there. I believe this issue killed the GOP message of smaller, more limited government. Republicans may believe in just a little bit more economic freedom than President Obama and his socialist tax and spend crowd, but when it comes to personal freedom, Republicans want bigger government in your bedroom; on your computer; interfering in your personal decisions; limiting your freedoms; violating your civil rights; deciding what behavior is acceptable and “moral.” The ban of online gaming and poker morphed the GOP into Big Brother. Worse, it exposed Republicans as hypocrites and uptight prudes looking to take away our personal freedoms and limit the choices of consenting adults.

The smokescreen used to defend this ban was “morality.” But morality based on whose standards? Here's the great thing about freedom. I like to gamble. You don't. Great. So don't gamble. No one is forcing you. Feel free to teach your children not to gamble. But why would you ever want to stop me from enjoying what I want to do? What right have you got to limit my choice of entertainment? Are you upset that I'm having a good time and you're not? Are you upset that I can enjoy gambling without becoming addicted or ruining my life, while you can't? You know what they call groups that police morality and ban choices of personal freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan? The Taliban.

Whether I choose gambling as my form of entertainment, or investment…either way, it doesn't effect you and it's NONE OF YOUR DARN BUSINESS. Any political party that disagrees with that simple philosophy deserves to lose power at all levels of office, destroy their popularity, and tarnish their brand forever. Sound familiar?

What's the GOP's new slogan? “We are the Nanny State. We're going to save you- whether you like it or not.” If that's your political slogan, good luck. You aren't the party of smaller government. You are the party of bigger government. You are the very symbol of political hypocrisy (and stupidity). I wish you a wonderful future in the world's smallest and most uptight political minority.

The truth is that the ban of online poker and gaming is not an insignificant issue. It is a huge issue. If our government thinks it has a right to tell citizens what games they can play on their own computer, then there is no limit to what control they want to hold over our lives. The ban of online gaming cost the GOP the support of many Libertarian-leaning voters. It cost them the support of many fiscally conservative, socially tolerant small business owners (whose contributions fuel the GOP). Most importantly, it cost them the support of millions of men who love to play poker and gamble on sports.

How popular is sports gambling? It has made the Super Bowl and March Madness two of the most popular television events in the country and for all intents and purposes, national holidays. How popular is poker? Just one organization, The PPA (Poker Players Alliance) has over one million members. Experts estimate that 10 million to 12 million American citizens play online poker. Over 50 million Americans play poker as a recreational sport. The World Series of Poker held in Las Vegas each summer has become the world's richest sporting event (with over $100,000,000 in prizes). Poker TV shows dominate the television screen.

What are the demographics of these online gamblers? For the most part, they tend to be males- macho, fiscally conservative, free spirited, entrepreneurial, small business owners, stock investors, self-employed. Like me, they are passionate capitalists that believe in limited government, low taxes and free markets. They distrust and dislike government. They certainly do not trust or support Barack Obama or his plans to redistribute the wealth. Do you get the idea who we're describing? Republicans! The brilliant GOP, with this ignorant ban on online gambling, has screwed over the worst possible group of voters- their own constituents.

Instead of learning from this fiasco, it appears the tone-deaf GOP is a glutton for punishment. They appear to be gearing up to fight Congressman Barney Frank in order to uphold this ban on the freedom of their own supporters. And you wonder why millions of former lifelong, loyal Republicans just like me have changed sides? We're never going to fall into the arms of Barack Obama and the Democratic Party, with their socialist tax and spend ideas that limit our economic freedom, denigrate capitalism and greatly increase the size, scope and power of government. But we're done with the GOP. We've found a home in the only political party that supports both economic and personal freedom: the Libertarian Party.

Libertarians understand- unlike the GOP- that asking government to play Nanny; to take control over your personal behavior; to play Big Brother in your bedroom or on your computer; to limit your personal freedom; is no better than Democrats forcing big government into your personal financial decisions or trying to steal (they call it “redistribute”) your hard-earned money. It’s all about the same issue- freedom. It’s the reason our ancestors came to America (or died trying). It’s the reason we fought the American Revolution. Freedom is at the root (excuse the pun) of what America is all about.

Gambling is about freedom. Whether you like it or not, approve of it or not, that personal choice is none of government's darn business. More importantly, what difference is there between making a $100 online bet on a hand of poker; a $1000 online bet on the Dallas Cowboys or Los Angeles Lakers; or a $100,000 wager on Microsoft or ExxonMobil with your Charles Schwab or E*Trade online account? There is no difference- except that the last few years have proven Wall Street is far more dangerous and costly. Should we ban stock investing? Should we ban online stock accounts at Charles Schwab, E*Trade or TD Ameritrade? Well we shouldn’t ban online poker either.

A far bigger problem in America today is obesity. Only 6% (at most) of Americans have a gambling addiction. But as much as 60% of the U.S. population has an obesity problem. Should we ban delis? Should we ban McDonalds? Should we ban Krispy Kremes?

Alcohol kills more Americans than any other addiction. Yet we allow bars, restaurants and clubs to sell alcohol, don't we? We tried Prohibition in the 1920's- it was the greatest political failure ever. Our citizens kept drinking; lost respect for the law; millions of dollars of tax revenue was lost; and organized crime was born to fill the void. Nothing about online gambling is any different. Banning it will solve nothing; the people who enjoy it as entertainment will keep doing it; they will lose respect for the law; billions in tax revenues will be lost; problem gamblers will move underground; and organized crime will rake in the profits. Perhaps we should call this ban “The Gambino Family Support Bill.” Afterall, the mafia is the greatest beneficiary of this ban. It is estimated that Americans have gambled over $100 Billion per year online since the ban on online gambling. Pretty effective, huh? Once again, more proof of the utter futility and stupidity of trying to limit freedom under the guise of morality. They should just rename the morality police, “the Keystone Cops.”

This ban has nothing to do with morality. If it did, the same politicians who railed against online gaming would not have carved out exemptions for online lotteries, online horseracing, tribal casinos, or fantasy football. The next time you hear a politician say he or she supports a ban on online gaming or poker, you should ask them which organized crime family is bribing them with campaign contributions.

PriceWaterhouseCooper recently studied the issue of online gaming and concluded that legalization will produce over $50 Billion in tax revenues for the federal government. That's $50 Billion (with a “B”) at a time when our budget deficits and national debt grows by the trillions. Why would we throw away $50 Billion in revenues just waiting to be collected, at the same time we limit the freedoms of millions of Americans? Seems like a no-brainer to me. But then I also understand why the GOP brand has been ruined, leaving the party in shambles. The answer is clear: this tone-deaf obsession with limiting the personal freedom of consenting adults. It's funny how a little issue of taking away people's freedom can destroy a political party. Or even more remarkably, drive a free-market, limited-government Libertarian into the arms of…Barney Frank.

Wayne Allyn Root was the 2008 Libertarian Vice Presidential candidate. His new book will be released by John Wiley & Sons this July entitled, “The Conscience of a Libertarian: Empowering the Citizen Revolution with God, Guns, Gambling & Tax Cuts.” The book is available for pre-sale at Amazon.com. For more of Wayne's views, commentaries, or to watch his many media interviews, please visit his
 

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European online casino operators are watching for even the slightest hint of US protectionism, while some land-based gaming operators are preparing a push for favorite son status.

As the anticipation toward Barney Frank's proposal to regulate Internet gambling builds, parties are already firing advance salvos as to what the new rules should be. European online casino operators are watching for even the slightest hint of US protectionism, while some land-based gaming operators are preparing a push for favorite son status.

"I'd be amazed if it didn't happen over the next two or three years. It's just a question of what exactly the regulations will say," Clive Hawkswood, Remote Gaming Association CEO told the New York Times about online gambling regulation in the US.

Hawkswood's organization is a major complainant in the European Commission's investigation into US discriminatory trade practices, particularly in relation to prosecutions of Internet casino operators while online gambling is permitted under US companies. The RGA is prepared to raise trouble if its members are once again dealt a rigged hand by US authorities.

But gaming market analyst Nick Batram feels any regulation effort will feel pressure to create US jobs and prop up faltering US gambling companies.

"It's my feeling that even if the market were opened up, the U.S. government, in a palatable way, would probably find a way to give local companies a favorable position," Batram said.

Some think that US lawmakers will use the criminal investigations into offshore gaming sites as a way to justify protectionist policy for US casino operators. Only a select few, such as PartyGaming, have cleared up old disagreements and could claim clean records for licensing.

Other companies continue to position themselves with a meld of US brand power and European experience. Harrah's Entertainment notably hired ex-PartyGaming CEO Mitch Garber to run its new Internet division, packaged with the World Series of Poker brand.

Yet land-based companies are of a variety of opinions on online gambling.

"Even though it would be a benefit to our company, we are strongly opposed," says Steve Wynn of Wynn Resorts.

As has been seen in gaming law throughout the US, legal changes are as much about who gets control as actual legalization.

Trade Debate Over Online Casino Rules Precedes Bill (7 May 2009)

http://www.onlinecasinoadvisory.com...ambling-interests-eye-us-regulation-42741.htm
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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I don't think Root is even in the ballpark, online gambling may have cost the GOP some votes, but it's not close to being the difference maker.

The economic retraction, the credit crisis, the economic fear mongering that was unprecedented in my lifetime, the Obama love fest, the war that was prolonged by Rummy's strategy, the simple fact that the GOP was in office for 8 years and 11% of the public voting 96.5% for one candidate giving him a 14,500,000 vote plurality in that one demographic all had much more to do with it.

After all, at the end of the day, how many of us can still use offshore sites?

Now I miss Netteller, and I don't support the ban, but that issue didn't change the election.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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the simple fact that the GOP was in office for 8 years and 11% of the public voting 96.5% for one candidate giving him a 14,500,000 vote plurality in that one demographic all had much more to do with it.

At least 11% of voting population is strong right wing Christians. Their 96.5% support for McCain/Palin nicely offset the African-American vote for Barack Obama.

The remaining 78% of the voting population then rolled up a solid 55/45

And that 10% overall (5% swing) was inspired in large part by the utter lack of positive contribution to our nation by the preceding eight years of BushCo - not by any heavy surge of "pro-online gambling" advocates.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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At least 11% of voting population is strong right wing Christians. Their 96.5% support for McCain/Palin nicely offset the African-American vote for Barack Obama.

Not even in the ballpark, and you should know better. what we have here is a total and complete fabrication of the facts.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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So strong right wing Christians voted for Obama in significant numbers?

I confess I don't the exact percentages. But if that's true, I'm encouraged by their attitude.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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SIDE NOTE....I think we could all benefit right now from a big plate of blackened chicken wings, some quesadillas and double dips of that Glenlivet and those Jameson sours.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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So strong right wing Christians voted for Obama in significant numbers?

I confess I don't the exact percentages. But if that's true, I'm encouraged by their attitude.

At their peak, I believe white evangelicals voted something like 64% for Bush. But they had to be white and they had to be evangelicals, a little more defined than "Christians".

I'm thinking there are a lot of 60% demographics to speak of, most of them in the Democratic Party like gays, femanazis, PETA, environmental extremists, high school drop outs and unions.

It's those 90%ers that are the real sheeple of the world.

I'm thinking of sending a few Glenlivids down tonight, it's time. :toast:
 

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Anyone with a link to the bill? From what I have heard it sounds awful for those who want to play offshore.
 

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