A question on the Libertarian Party and Taxation

xpanda · Jan 21, 2004

Ah, yes, the beauty of bias in education ... makes me mental, too. Take, for example, being female AND attending Catholic school ... not only is my status frequently relegated to some morphing of Adam's rib, but questioning why women can't be priests is worthy of a one-week suspension (that actually happened.) In history classes, we learn of the Canadian version of the Civil Rights movement, but it is limited to subjects of race, and feminism is ignored.

I recently dated a history teacher, and we argued more than once about this exact issue -- he considered the sexual revolution to be classroom worthy, but women's suffrage and liberation were not. We resolved our argument by my attending his class as a one-day 'guest speaker' with restrictions, of course, to stick to timelines and names and such, rather than risk any type of pro-feminist bias. Seemed to not matter that his 30-student classroom had 18 girls.

But, then, I would have no issue with a teacher telling my children that being gay was just fine.

Phaedrus · Jan 21, 2004

posted by xpanda:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Even a flawed education system is better than no education system at all.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is simply where we hit a brick wall, because any attempt by the state to apply one-size-fits-all standards and practices to the single most varied and authority-resistant demograph in the world -- American children -- will meet in failure ultimately. We have over a century of almost consistent, linear downward slope to prove this. What is most ironic is that despite the state's sliding ability to maintain even a pretense of educating our children, American adults are better-educated now that they have ever before been in history (see also the thread "Ignorant American Pigs.") Why? Because once out in the market those who want better for themselves, either financially or simply from the standpoint of living a better-rounded life, have taken the initiative on their own.

The steady downgrade of the public educational system and the steady upgrade in college and higher education demonstrate that the great majority of Americans who are ever actually going to learn, will do so regardless of the machinations of the state. As I have said earlier, the public educational system is nothing more than a glorifed daycare, and is substandard even in that modest capacity.

Other, more sinister arguments abound regarding the public educational system's flaws, some which explicitly accuse the government of deliberately "dumbing down" youth in order to make them more susceptible to authority. While I do not ascribe to such notions, it is admittedly another of the several negative effects of state-sponsored education that children are pushed into conformist molds. And it is not too much of a stretch in my own mind to equate the potential psycholoogical side effects of such a situation with such tragedies as occured at Columbine.

Phaedrus

Phaedrus · Aug 18, 2004

This was a really good thread. I'm sorry it died.

(Was digging around looking for something else and happened on this.)

Phaedrus

Dweeb · Aug 18, 2004

Yes, too bad.

The posters above didn't spend enough time addressing the most important bi-product of present government -- in terms of how government affects the people that belong to this forum.

The constitution gives the federal government NO power to constantly interfere with our internet gambling activities. The federal govenment constantly wastes its limited resources -- bothering sovereign foreign goverments and foreign businesses -- in some bizarre attempt to impose the principles of the USA Christian far-right wing on everyone on every continent everywhere. We, the posters in this forum, that engage in gaming on the internet -- are most affected by this mis-use of federal government power.

The Libertarians would put a stop to that nonsense immediately if they were in a position of power.

You just need that one reason to vote Libertarian.

Thank You
Dweeb

xpanda · Aug 18, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Phaedrus:

Other, more sinister arguments abound regarding the public educational system's flaws, some which explicitly accuse the government of deliberately "dumbing down" youth in order to make them more susceptible to authority. While I do not ascribe to such notions, it _is_ admittedly another of the several negative effects of state-sponsored education that children are pushed into conformist molds. And it is not too much of a stretch in my own mind to equate the potential psycholoogical side effects of such a situation with such tragedies as occured at Columbine.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mustn't have read your final instalment in this discussion, but would like to comment on the above. While I don't intend to take away any of the merit of your conclusion regarding Columbine, does it not seem a little simplistic? Certainly the erosion of parental controls on children, and the apparent ease with which children can get their hands on the kinds of advanced weaponry needed to pull off such a massacre contributed as much as, if not more than, their 'dumbed down' education?

mizike · Aug 18, 2004

3rd party will never make it, usa was built on the two party system and to break that is almost impossible.
Government spending has always been crazy. I am sure if you did some homework and see how much of the British GDP was spent on maintain India you would find some shocking #'s.
Shit the developing world never had it so good. Declare you want to be democratic, point out your enemies, and watch USA gi's die in the field for a cause that’s not even theirs. End result you get in power with the backing of the USA, you get choice contracts and trade incentives, enough economic aid to allow you to feed your own kind and build a palace on every continent and the whole time the USA takes all the shit for it.
War is expensive anyway but having to fight other peoples wars for them as well as your own gets really expensive.

Phaedrus · Aug 18, 2004

posted by xpanda:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
I mustn't have read your final instalment in this discussion, but would like to comment on the above. While I don't intend to take away any of the merit of your conclusion regarding Columbine, does it not seem a little simplistic? Certainly the erosion of parental controls on children, and the apparent ease with which children can get their hands on the kinds of advanced weaponry needed to pull off such a massacre contributed as much as, if not more than, their 'dumbed down' education?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps I did not make my point clear. I was speaking of the backlash effect of the "conformity factory" approach to education, and did not mean to imply that eroding curriculae somehow motivated Dylan and Eric to share their special feelings in he particular manner in which they did. Naturally, problems at home an in their social life probably played a prominent role as well. The availability of weapons (not "advanced weapons" by the way) certainly facilitated the event, but it is very doubtful that the simple fact that weapons could be accessed was a motivating factor in the act.

Phaedrus

Oceans11 · Aug 18, 2004

It appears that the new generations are geniuses.

A-levels show rise in top grades
The pass rate has risen slightly to 96% and 22.4% of entrants received an A-grade - up from 21.6% last year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3577342.stm

----------------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> the public educational system is nothing more than a glorifed daycare <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would agree entirely.
At least it serves that purpose better than no purpose.

I find that reading/writing is severely lacking in recent times.
Opinions on little things, like WW2, are virtually non-existent.

Getting too old to really worry though.

Happy to let the old egos and the younger generation figure it out for themselves.

-------------------------

(When I were a lad)

Teachers taught, teachers passed on knowledge to little sponges called kids whose mouths opened as they gained knowledge and certainty.

Nowadays teachers practice riot control, and minimise the risk of being sued and being accused as child abusers.

Not our problem. Society will reap the harvest of systemic stupidity, as will companies.