For this auction, refunds should be warranted because we had no rule for this, but what was discussed in chat last night should be what is implemented for future ones otherwise horse racing will never work for an auction style.
We must treat this as a FUTURE (w no refunds) and not a ticket window purchase because all horses in the auction are on a future basis to win place or show. In the example MM is using it wouldnt hurt the value of the 50 to 1 being reduced to 30to 1 but if one of the favs goes down using HC's example, then the 2nd fav takes over as the "fav",and the new odds are horrific for that horse.
Problem with above example is 1, its using the $1 horse and 2 (most importantly) it is NOT 50 to 1 and then 30 to 1(this is not a winner take all pot by any stretch so the odds do not correlate to 50to1 then 30to1 once scratch is done).. the odds for the horse according to our payouts would be 60%/30%/10% so lets use those odds below:
Use same example but instead of viewing Horse 5 for $1 , take horse 2 as the example with the way the pot is split at 60/30/10 % or $30/$15/$5
Take out the $20 horse #1 scratched and refund the buyer(as proposed) and it creates this problem - ... leaves 31$ in the pot.. new payout is now 60% for first or $18.. now the user who took horse 2 is at an extreme overvalued disadvantage.. he paid basically premium dollar as if it were a monster favorite for a potential middle of the pack horse.. it just will not work unless these are all FUTURE bets which never are refunded...We cannot then hold the bidder who took horse 2 to his pick if we refunded horse 1 and any scratches.. who in their right mind would want to risk $15 to win $18 on a horse unless it was Secretariat's ghost?:Carcajada:
This could be 10X worse if the 2nd Favorite was scratched and it was a year where there was an overwhelming favorite because then first place could end up paying less than the amount of the cost of the big favorite horse.. but nothing like that this year.
the absolute ONLY way we can do refunds in future ones for scratches after close is if its a Winner Take All pot.. if we have split payouts it will never work to not treat this as Future wagering without refunds.
-murph
In general I agree with Murphs math and thats why Im not opposed to SOL rules.
I think it comes down to with all are willing to deal with the situation where one guy (wins/is) winning an auction and
his horse gets scratched before auction (ends/he) pays for it.
All honorable people who are okay with rule will pay and just shrug it off as a tough loss
BUT it is also human nature to not want to pay when they dont even have a chance.
like how many will keep paying a car note if auto is damaged or stolen or broken and insurance doesnt cover it all.
Im okay with the consensus as I enjoy the auction format and will agree with whatever rules
keep it going.
I think it comes down to with all are willing to deal with the situation where one guy (wins/is) winning an auction and
his horse gets scratched before auction (ends/he) pays for it.
All honorable people who are okay with rule will pay and just shrug it off as a tough loss
BUT it is also human nature to not want to pay when they dont even have a chance.
like how many will keep paying a car note if auto is damaged or stolen or broken and insurance doesnt cover it all.
Im okay with the consensus as I enjoy the auction format and will agree with whatever rules
keep it going.
I know I am late to the party, but where on this site was this auction? Was it held at a "secret location" instead? If so, why not add the software here and lock it up for those that want a password to get in? Not bitchin, just an idea if it was held at a third party site.
Any way, I want the information for the next auction whatever that may be. First MLB team to score exactly 13 runs or win 10 games in a row? Perhaps the Preakness.........
Any way, I want the information for the next auction whatever that may be. First MLB team to score exactly 13 runs or win 10 games in a row? Perhaps the Preakness.........
Yes it was hosted on an outside site I developed specifically for these auctions. FWIW, it wasn't exactly a secret. I posted dozens of times in multiple threads here how to get a login, including in post 1 of this thread; sorry you missed it. 26 other posters have found their way there.
I will PM you login information and a link so you can check it out, you're welcome to bid in any of them.
I just read through the posts and see where the scratch took part and there wasn't a set rule etc etc.........
My suggestion is you do horse racing again, is that you do it as a winner take all and give refunds to any horse scratched after the auction is over.
Two things will happen, the guy that paid for the scratch will be happy and not feel screwed especially if it is a horse he paid $20-$30+ on. In this current example b glad it's only $5. You don't want any hard feelings becaue it will certainly sour the next auction because people will think they have a chance of getting screwed.
As for the winner take all scenario, you will vastly increase the prize pool because people will bid higher for the "favorites" and won't it be nice to see someone win that pays a relative small amount when that long shot wins the race.
Hey I only bid $3 but look I won $80. More people will see that and get in and guess what, those long priced horses will get some more action in the future, because people will take a flyer on them.
Favorites win at about a 32-34% clip........... make it interesting rather than WPS, because it would appear the payouts were relatively small.
Preakness is in two weeks, the draw for the Preakness is on 5/13 in the afternoon. Get things loaded up on Wednesday and let it run until Noon on Saturday. Have the time to pay by 1PM eastern and all unpaid at that time go back to bid until 2PM. Keep it simple.
My suggestion is you do horse racing again, is that you do it as a winner take all and give refunds to any horse scratched after the auction is over.
Two things will happen, the guy that paid for the scratch will be happy and not feel screwed especially if it is a horse he paid $20-$30+ on. In this current example b glad it's only $5. You don't want any hard feelings becaue it will certainly sour the next auction because people will think they have a chance of getting screwed.
As for the winner take all scenario, you will vastly increase the prize pool because people will bid higher for the "favorites" and won't it be nice to see someone win that pays a relative small amount when that long shot wins the race.
Hey I only bid $3 but look I won $80. More people will see that and get in and guess what, those long priced horses will get some more action in the future, because people will take a flyer on them.
Favorites win at about a 32-34% clip........... make it interesting rather than WPS, because it would appear the payouts were relatively small.
Preakness is in two weeks, the draw for the Preakness is on 5/13 in the afternoon. Get things loaded up on Wednesday and let it run until Noon on Saturday. Have the time to pay by 1PM eastern and all unpaid at that time go back to bid until 2PM. Keep it simple.
