Wil posts lies about Swiftboatvets!

[bblight]

One of the posts by Wil stated "First of all no one is accusing them (the swiftboatvets) of cowardice or even intenionally lying. The fact is none of them actually served WITH Kerry only alongside him. The shipmates who were with him all have different versions than that of the SB vets."

That is a lie - A gunner that served on the same swiftboat with Kerry and was wounded during a firefight from which Kerry ran - for no obvious reason, is a member of swiftboatvets, and openly refutes many of the Kerry lies.

That same gunner says that Kerry sometimes went back to a scene, and using helmet, flak vest and weapon, (which he never used except for these filmings) re-enacted a fake after battle filming.

This enlisted man who served on the same boat with Kerry says that Kerry was self serving and dangerous.

Wil, you aught to check your sources out - people like Michael Kranish, a Boston Globe reporter and a long time Kerry friend and confidant has openly twisted the words of some of the swiftboat vets he interviewed, taking their statements out of context, in an effort to make them appear to be hesitant and unsure about their statements, or liars.

PS - this same guy that served as a gunner with Kerry says they never went near Cambodia, thus refuting another Kerry lie!

 

[jimbutorac]

You guys just won't let this go...

John McCain called the attacks by Swift Boat Veterans for Bush "dishonest and dishonorable," and he called on George Bush to condemn the ad. George Bush has refused to do so. What is taking him so long? Why won't George Bush condemn these ads?

The crewmates who served with John Kerry stand with him.

Swift Boat Veterans for Bush did not serve with John Kerry in Vietnam; John O'Neill, the author of the book of lies and distortions, never laid eyes on John Kerry in Vietnam.

Kerry's crewmates said of this ad: "These assertions are garbage; these people weren't there with John Kerry. If he hadn't made the right command decisions, in my opinion, we would be some of the names on that wall." -Crewmate PCF 94, Gene Thorson, in response to assertions that Kerry acted poorly in combat.

"That's a pure fabrication...the fire was strong enough to knock out Tommy Belodeau's machine gun...I was in the middle of the firefight." -Jim Rassmann, Special Forces Officer saved by John Kerry, in response to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth assertion that there was no enemy fire on the day that Rassmann was rescued by Lt. Kerry.

"It was a hellacious firefight, I don't know how these guys could stretch the truth like this" -Senior enlisted man PCF 94 Del Sandusky in response to the same assertion.

Some of the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush were in John's chain of command and wrote glowing Fitness Reports on him; George Elliott: "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed...LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group."
(fitness report of John Kerry, by LTCMDR George Elliott, 18 Dec 1969.)

These attacks on John Kerry are part of a Bush smear campaign against John Kerry; they are financed by Bob Perry, a Texas Republican friend of Karl Rove, and are organized and promoted by a Republican communications firm, Spaeth Communications.

But I hope you guys keep pushing it. Even Bill O'Reilly thinks y'all oughta drop it cause it's just gonna backfire.

 

[GAMEFACE]

I believe the 200 honorbly discharged Veterans over the proven liar Kerry.

I have to say it's time to move to Kerrys terrible Senate record and his actions after he left Vietnam with Hanoi Jane. I believe this may be a smoke screen now so we don't discuss his Senate record and Hanoi Jane.

 

[Shotgun]

I guess it all depends on the meaning of "served with him" means. Steve Gardner was on his boat...why do they say he didn't serve with Kerry? Did John McCain serve with Kerry? Apparently so since he's being used as a reference in this story.

One way to solve this problem is to have Kerry release his COMPLETE record. Why hasn't he done so?

 

[GAMEFACE]

Most of us know Kerrys 4 months in Vietnam was a staged fraud. The only problem is Bush cannot win this battle because he did not even go to Vietnam. It's really a mute point, many do not believe the purple hearts are real and we know the footage was a staged act.

Time to talk about Kerrys dismal Senate record and Hanoi Jane, he cannot duck and cover form this.

 

[wilheim]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That is a lie - A gunner that served on the same swiftboat with Kerry and was wounded during a firefight from which Kerry ran - for no obvious reason, is a member of swiftboatvets, and openly refutes many of the Kerry lies.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blight, do you by any chance know his name? I did try to find out if any of the SBVs actually were on the same vessel but was unable to find anything. I apologise if anyone was mislead by my my apparent oversite. Perhaps you could furnish the details I missed. FWIW I had no intention of lying or misleading anyone, I was under the impression from my reading and TV news reports that none of the SBVs were on the same vessel.

Thanks, wil.

 

[jimbutorac]

Wil,

This is a typical Republican smear tactic. Throw out baseless accusations and never prove them. They did the same thing when Clinton's crew supposedly defaced the White House and that was a sham.

Did the same thing when they went into hysterics over Paul wellstone's funeral - another sham.

But what's important to them is not the accuracy but they got the message out there.

I hope they keep pushing this thing, because there are even independents and Republicans getting turned off by this like Bill O'Reilly and John McCain and it will definitely antagonize anybody sitting on the fence to vote against Bush.

IMO, this is about the best thing that could happen for Kerry's campaign.

It also speaks to the dismal record of the Bush Admin that they make no attempt as the incumbent Administration to run on their own record:

Sprialing out of control, record budget deficit
Faulty intelligence interpretation leading to unnecessary war on Iraq
Asleep at the wheel for 9/11
Dismal economic performance
could go on and on but am running out of time.

Anyways, bblight, shot, keep posting this stuff as many places as you can - I implore you. Do your best to help Kerry ot the presidency.

 

[wilheim]

The source I used was a Yahoo search that never mentions any wounded gunner, feel fre to examine. I may have missed it. I did read "None of the men who served with Kerry on his boat are members of SBVT" which is half way down the page. So shoot me.

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is an advocacy organization formed in 2004 by opponents of John Kerry's U.S. presidential campaign. Its name refers to the class of boat on which Kerry and some of the organization's members served in the Vietnam War. The group is devoted to calling Kerry's war record into question, particularly with regard to the length of his tour of duty and the nature of the injuries for which he received Purple Hearts.

Founding members of the group include Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann (retired), a famously aggressive commander of Swift boat forces; John O'Neill, a veteran and attorney who had long been a vociferous critic of Kerry's war record; 13 other named veterans; and other veterans who were not members but signed the group's public statement against Kerry, for a total of 189 signatures. The statement claimed that Kerry had not been forthcoming about his military and medical records, and demanded that he make them public, which he did.[1] (http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html) He also released a summary of his military medical records.[2] (http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=143-04232004)

SBVT contains many officers who praised Kerry's conduct during the Vietnam War. These include Division Commander Grant Hibbard, who wrote positive evaluations of Kerry, and Commander George Elliott, who submitted Kerry for a Silver Star. At one point Elliott was reported to have retracted his accusations against Kerry, but the reported retraction has been called into question after Elliott denied having issued it. [3] (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/) [4] (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5901447) [5] (http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2004/08/kranish_is_cook.html)

None of the men who served with Kerry on his boat are members of SBVT. All living members of Kerry's crew support his presidential bid and frequently campaign with him. These former crewmates dispute SBVT's allegations: "totally false" (Drew Whitlow) and "pure fabrication" (Jim Rassman). Crewmates Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky are also on record that SBVT's allegations are lies. [6] (http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-6/1089817512150830.xml) [7] (http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=19101&format=text) [8] (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/9327026.htm?1c)

SBVT is officially nonpartisan, but has several ties to Republican Party politics. Notably, its media representative, Merrie Spaeth, was a Reagan administration press officer and an advisor to Ken Starr in the Clinton impeachment. Spaeth's late husband, Tex Lezar, ran for Texas lieutenant governor on George W. Bush's ticket in 1994. Its guiding spirit, John E. O'Neill -- the primary author of Unfit for Command -- was a partner in Lezar's law firm, and an early protégé of Nixon-era "dirty trickster" Charles Colson. The SBVT Web site was put up courtesy of William Franke, a St. Louis businessman with longstanding ties to Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Missouri Republican Party. Its chief financiers, according to the group's last quarterly IRS filing, are Houston builder Bob J. Perry and the Crow family, both major Republican donors from Texas. [9] (http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/08/06/mccain_on_swift_boat_veterans/) [10] (http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/05/04/swift/) [11] (http://www.washingtondispatch.com/opinion/article_9754.shtml)

Soon after Kerry was nominated, SBVT purchased television ads attacking him, claiming that he "lied to get his Bronze Star." The ads also featured men saying, "I served with John Kerry," although none of them ever served on Kerry's Swift boat. Republican Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter and a Vietnam veteran, stated "I condemn the ad, it is dishonest and dishonorable, I think it is very, very wrong. I hope that the president will also condemn it."[12] (http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html) The Bush campaign refused to condemn the ad, but stated "we have not and we will not question Sen. Kerry's service in Vietnam." [13] (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5899870) In reaction, reporter and columnist Josh Marshall has satirically proposed founding a new group: Concerned Vietnam Combat Veterans Whose Service Records Have Been Attacked by Friends of President Bush Even Though President Bush Has Nothing To Do With It and Did His Best to Stop it But Failed.[14]


(http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_08_01.php#003250)



Yahoo Search

wil.

 

[Oceans11]

They wont shoot you Wil.

They'll send you to an internment camp for Liberal enemies of the state so that you can be 're-educated'.

 

[bblight]

Wil, I can't remember his name - he was on the scotto and Blute show this morning, about 6:30 AM. His name was mentioned several times - I should have written it down.

He was a machine gunner on Kerry's boat - here's an approximation of what he said:
" We were in a fire fight - they were spraying us with bullets - I was in a (?) above it all, lokking down and shooting down into them - we would have suppressed their fire in a few moments when I noticed myself bleeding - I leaned down and shouted to Kerry that I'd been shot, but I was OK - we almost had them under control, when for no apparent reason he (Kerry) pulled the boat away from the fight and out into the middle of the channel - I don't know why he did that, I was ok and no one else appeared to be hurt."

He went on from there answering a lot of questions from Scotto - I arrived at work and had to shut off the radio.

 

[wilheim]

I did just find some info about Steve Gardner the man Shotgun mentioned, who I never knew existed until this morning.


The other night at the Democratic convention John Kerry came into it on the harbor with a shipload of his ex-crewmates, all those who served with him, knew him and fought with him who support him for president. Oh yes, there was one man missing... Steve Gardner didn't like Kerry because Kerry didn't like him, allegedly cussing him out when he mowed down a little twelve year old boy who he said had a gun, upon which Kerry rushed out, looked up at Gardner in the boat tub operating the 50 caliber machine guns, called him a son of a bitch, and said, "I ought to court martial you." No, that didn't make for a fast friendship. Entire Article

Did Gardner shoot a 12 year old child? Is this perhaps his reason for badmouthing Kerry?

 

[wilheim]

Kerry’s Commanding Officer, Lieutenant Commander George Elliott,

Recommended Kerry for the Silver Star. NOVEMBER 28, 1969, he wrote in his annual fitness report, "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity. On one occasion, while in tactical command of a three boat operation, his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several enemy KIA. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach. He has of his own volition learned the Vietnamese language and is instrumental in the successful Vietnamese training program. During the period of this report LTJG Kerry has been awarded the Silver Star medal, the Bronze Star medal and The Purple Heart (2nd and 3rd Awards)." George M. Elliot, LCDR USN

 

[bblight]

Jesus wil - you'll never stop spinning and twisting, will you?

I've never heard or seen so many ass covering excuses as you have for Kerry.

If someone caught Kerry with a smoking gun in hand and a dead body at his feet, you'd say that the Republicans were really guilty for not repealing the second ammendment.

You're unbelievable!

 

[wilheim]

Blight did you read the article? I am just qouting it. Those words were written by Gary Jacobson of the Washington Dispatch not me. What is it with you, there are two sides to every story, you say you heard one on the radio, fine, I posted one I found on the internet only because I was defending myself from accusations you made that I posted lies. Maybe the guy one the radio was lying, who knows. Try to get past me, and read the information posted, I did not make it up.


wil.