Why you should be a socialist

[rolltide]

Human development index

gotcha, well let's dive into this a bit

So by your own reference the Human Development Index is going to tell us which countries are "doing good" (or gooder if you want to go the coldweather route)

So I just took a peek at the HDI top 9 and assumed they would be littered by Socialist systems since you personally use this index to sort the gooders from the badders.

taking the top 9 and cross referencing them with the also famous Global Democracy Ratings from 2013....here we go

Top 9 in human development, in order, with their Global Democracy Rating in parentheses:
Norway (1)
Australia (12)
USA (15)
Netherlands (6)
Germany (7)
New Zealand (8)
Ireland (11)
Sweden (2)
Switzerland (4)

so there you have it...you just made the counter-argument for me yet again. this is almost as easy as batting aktard and vetard around


Rubber Room in 3, 2, 1...

 

[Willie99]

gotcha, well let's dive into this a bit

So by your own reference the Human Development Index is going to tell us which countries are "doing good" (or gooder if you want to go the coldweather route)

So I just took a peek at the HDI top 9 and assumed they would be littered by Socialist systems since you personally use this index to sort the gooders from the badders.

taking the top 9 and cross referencing them with the also famous Global Democracy Ratings from 2013....here we go

Top 9 in human development, in order, with their Global Democracy Rating in parentheses:
Norway (1)
Australia (12)
USA (15)
Netherlands (6)
Germany (7)
New Zealand (8)
Ireland (11)
Sweden (2)
Switzerland (4)

so there you have it...you just made the counter-argument for me yet again. this is almost as easy as batting aktard and vetard around


Rubber Room in 3, 2, 1...

you're doing a great job RT, although I hope you realize you're not making any progess

as for moving this thread to the RR, I actually think that may be a promotion. Although the rift raft now clutters that once pristine forum, once home to Devil Woman & NES & several other classics

 

[Willie99]

I'm always amazed by people who think they're successful just because they work harder than someone else. Well, they don't even know they didn't build that. That's right, those less fortunate people who just happen to work a lot less are actually just as responsible for their success don'tchaknow.

power to the people

Yessiree, socialism is loaded with tons of wisdom and brilliance and motivational expressions

 

[Willie99]

socialist countries that have failed

Soviet Union
Eastern Germany
Romania
Czechoslovakia
Hungary
Poland
Bulgaria
Yugoslavia
Albania

collectively among the least productive countries in the world while they were under communist rule

Per Capita GNP (1990 $, according to Hardt and Kaufman.)	1938	1990
Austria	$1,800	$19,200
Czechoslovak Socialist Republic	$1,800	$3,100
Finland	$1,800	$16,100
Italy	$1,300	$16,800
People's Republic of Hungary	$1,100	$2,800
People's Republic of Poland	$1,000	$1,700
Spain	$900	$10,900
Portugal	$800	$4,900
Greece	$800	$6,000
People's Republic of Romania	$700	$1,600
People's Republic of Bulgaria	$700	$2,200

are you kidding me?

let me guess, economic growth is bad bad bad

 

[Willie99]

now, let's make it really really really simple

compare and contrast Western Germany to Eastern Germany. Can anyone on earth argue Eastern Germany was better off? seriously?

why did the socialists have to build a wall to keep their people from leaving? why did the socialists kill citizens who merely wanted to cross the border? is that "empowering people"

who do socialist countries restrict their citizens with respect to international travel?

a little critical thinking mixed in with a few history lessons goes a long way

 

[Willie99]

and one final question, where are all our resident libtards? why aren't they here defending this great country and the unparalleled opportunities it provides to everyone?

their silence speaks volumes about their value system

 

[akphidelt]

No, I'm really not. The capitalist model is the only one which gives everyone a fair chance at pursuing what they really want to do in life and make a success of themselves. That can't happen in socialist states, because if there is a doctor shortage for example, then we need to start forcing more citizens to become doctors whether they want to or not (Welcome to central planning).

I don't know where you get these misconceptions that bankers, CEOs, etc do nothing besides sit around in their office all day and earn big paychecks by playing Candy Crush. Nor do I remember reading many rags to riches stories involving Cubans or Soviet citizens in their former countries. Do you know anyone who has actually lived under those conditions at some point in their lives? I do, and 100% of them risked their lives to escape it for a reason. You really ought to find some and talk to them. Not many South Floridians are gathering up on rafts and trying to paddle their way into Cuba.

You keep bringing up these ancient civilizations. Who were they, and where did they exist? I think what you're really dreaming about is the socialist utopia...everyone continues to show up for work without getting a paycheck in return, and they do it for their fellow man. That simply isn't the way of the world. Hell, even in the wild...when a lion makes a kill, he doesn't go around and share it with every other carnivore species in the jungle. It's survival of the fittest.

And you STILL have not answered my question, because you it shatters your vision. But I'll ask again: we suddenly live in a socialist state, and I've decided I just don't feel like working. My reasons for doing so are irrelevant. So why should I work if you're going to pay me for not working? That's when your model begins to unravel.

Capitalism does the complete opposite. It gives owners of resources all the power over the non-owners. Usually leading to plutocracies, slave labor wages, despicable working conditions and treatment of laborers, etc.

Labor laws, joint ownership in things like infrastructure, etc... are the only ways to prevent people from being reliant on capitalist swine who have proven throughout history even to this day that they would sell their own children for more profit.

 

[Willie99]

if people are so distrusting of other people, if people think capitalism brings out the worst in other people, then how do such people decide who they can trust?

why on earth would anyone who believes people are inherently flawed believe that big government will not be inherently flawed? why on earth would people who choose to be politicians, one of the least trustworthy professions on earth, be considered more trustworthy than people who decide to go into business? Are we really hearing that politicians are not greedy? seriously?

oh let me guess, it's a better system because people who work less get to vote to acquire property other people worked for

yep, more brilliance at work

 

[russ1945]

Is it completely out of the question for people on welfare etc to lose the right to vote and why in the world should an illegal immigrant be able to vote. If you are not contributing and all you are doing is taking then you should have to pay a price. Many people on welfare are simply milking the system for all it is worth and pay no price in the process. Voting has consequences and why should people who are not responsible for their own well being be given the responsibility of being able to vote. This is not a proposition that many politicians could or would get behind but for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Dave007inVegas]

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings.
The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-Winston Churchill

 

[JDeuce]

Capitalism does the complete opposite. It gives owners of resources all the power over the non-owners. Usually leading to plutocracies, slave labor wages, despicable working conditions and treatment of laborers, etc.

Labor laws, joint ownership in things like infrastructure, etc... are the only ways to prevent people from being reliant on capitalist swine who have proven throughout history even to this day that they would sell their own children for more profit.

Yes! Bravo...100% correct! Business owners have ALL the power!

Never in the history of capitalism has a person worked for someone else while growing their own business on the side. No new companies have formed since the first one which was ever founded...because that owner stole all the "resources" and didn't allow anyone else access to them. I don't remember what he looks like, but he was probably old and white.

That also means if you're stuck in a job you don't like, there is just no possible way to find another one. Put yourself through school and pick up the skills to pursue something you enjoy? Unheard of! It also means that we were much better off as hunters and gatherers...life expectancy was much longer back in those days, and the standard of living was well beyond what we have now.

Your true socialist, proletariat colors aren't a secret to anyone. Stick to posting fake tax returns and fade winners.

 

[akphidelt]

Yes! Bravo...100% correct! Business owners have ALL the power!

Never in the history of capitalism has a person worked for someone else while growing their own business on the side. No new companies have formed since the first one which was ever founded...because that owner stole all the "resources" and didn't allow anyone else access to them. I don't remember what he looks like, but he was probably old and white.

That also means if you're stuck in a job you don't like, there is just no possible way to find another one. Put yourself through school and pick up the skills to pursue something you enjoy? Unheard of! It also means that we were much better off as hunters and gatherers...life expectancy was much longer back in those days, and the standard of living was well beyond what we have now.

Your true socialist, proletariat colors aren't a secret to anyone. Stick to posting fake tax returns and fade winners.

I make far more money than you do. No one on this site is a real "resource owner" that can control the means of production and force changes to labor laws. Just read books about the industrial revolution... people got rich during it. But the vast majority was abused and stuck working in working conditions that resemble 3rd world countries. There has never been a time in the history of mankind where unorganized capitalism succeeded other than making couple people rich and the vast majority their slaves.

Having an organized society with joint ownership in common resources and safe labor laws makes capitalism much more successful.

There is a reason why no developed societies across the world have pure capitalism. If you want pure capitalism you can go join some guerilla warfare group in Ghana.

 

[SheriffJoe]

Capitalism does the complete opposite. It gives owners of resources all the power over the non-owners. Usually leading to plutocracies, slave labor wages, despicable working conditions and treatment of laborers, etc.

Labor laws, joint ownership in things like infrastructure, etc... are the only ways to prevent people from being reliant on capitalist swine who have proven throughout history even to this day that they would sell their own children for more profit.

Everything belongs to the "collective" - Comrade finally gets Aktard out of the closet revealing himself to be the fucking commie lemming we all know he is! :aktion033

Meanwhile, the American Revolution (enshrining property rights) is when things really took off for all of humanity. Speaking of the industrial revolution, Nobel Prize winner Robert Lucas Jr. had this to say:

"For the first time in history, the living standards of the masses of ordinary people have begun to undergo sustained growth. ... Nothing remotely like this economic behavior has happened before."

And the losers who "think like" Aktard ('progressives') have been trying to undo the freedom revolution ever since.

Capitalism is voluntary.

Socialism is force.

That is why it fails.

 

[SheriffJoe]

If everything belongs to everyone, why would anyone push themselves to get ahead? Just let the omnipotent state take care of you.

So nothing happens.

It's the kind of backward econ system only an academic could cook up, embittered loser philosophers like Karl Marx who couldn't even pay his own bills.

If you're starving and want to eat, go buy a burger at McDonalds.

To pay for that burger you have to provide society some kind of value...or you'll starve.

There's no such thing as a free lunch...unless you're a Keynesian idiot who believes printing money out of thin air creates wealth. lol

 

[akphidelt]

Everything belongs to the "collective" - Comrade finally gets Aktard out of the closet revealing himself to be the fucking commie lemming we all know he is! :aktion033

Meanwhile, the American Revolution (enshrining property rights) is when things really took off for all of humanity. Speaking of the industrial revolution, Nobel Prize winner Robert Lucas Jr. had this to say:

"For the first time in history, the living standards of the masses of ordinary people have begun to undergo sustained growth. ... Nothing remotely like this economic behavior has happened before."

And the losers who "think like" Aktard ('progressives') have been trying to undo the freedom revolution ever since.

Capitalism is voluntary.

Socialism is force.

That is why it fails.

All of this was being done by laborers who were being treated like shit. Do capitalists care? Absolutely not. Look at Wal Mart today, people who didn't even create it are work more than like 90% of the country yet they force employees to work hours below a level in which they can get health care.

If you don't have labor laws, if you do not have joint ownership in resources that are necessary for survival and some standard of living, you will be abused by resource owners. I much rather own the roads then pay some kid who inherited them from his father.

Your argument is weak and makes it a false dichotomy.

 

[JDeuce]

I make far more money than you do.

Bzzzzz...wrong! As usual. Even with the fake tax returns you posted, you come up short. And considering your father gave you the job you currently have, you don't have much room for bravado. Try again, junior.

As for the rest of your horseshit drivel, please explain what prevents Wal-Mart employees from doing whatever is necessary to find a better paying and more rewarding job.

 

[SheriffJoe]

All of this was being done by laborers who were being treated like shit. Do capitalists care? Absolutely not. Look at Wal Mart today, people who didn't even create it are work more than like 90% of the country yet they force employees to work hours below a level in which they can get health care.

If you don't have labor laws, if you do not have joint ownership in resources that are necessary for survival and some standard of living, you will be abused by resource owners. I much rather own the roads then pay some kid who inherited them from his father.

Your argument is weak and makes it a false dichotomy.

Talk about a "logical fallacy"

Nobody is forcing anyone to work at Walmart.

 

[akphidelt]

Bzzzzz...wrong! As usual. Even with the fake tax returns you posted, you come up short. And considering your father gave you the job you currently have, you don't have much room for bravado. Try again, junior.

As for the rest of your horseshit drivel, please explain what prevents Wal-Mart employees from doing whatever is necessary to find a better paying and more rewarding job.

Nothing fake about it, and there is no chance you make more than me. You are a weirdo.

 

[akphidelt]

Talk about a "logical fallacy"

Nobody is forcing anyone to work at Walmart.

Yea, no one is forcing people to work in sweatshops in China, 12 hours a day for a quarter an hour... but people still do it.

Survival makes people do crazy things... even become slaves.

If that's what you like is to force people to work for the worst possible conditions there is, then you are a good capitalist.

I personally rather have our human capital getting educated, innovating, and leading to the advancement of humanity, rather than stocking shelves at Wal Mart because that's the only jobs available.

 

[JDeuce]

Talk about a "logical fallacy"

Nobody is forcing anyone to work at Walmart.

Isn't it funny? The Left loves to rail against the elite in the name of the little proletariat...saying that capitalism is controlled by a few while the rest of the population is relegated to serf status. Doesn't that describe the Stuttering Clusterfuck's government to a tee? He's doing pretty well for himself in the oasis, as are a number of other politicians...who want nothing more than full control of the population so they can keep their place among the elites. Exhibit A: Obamacare. Citizens are legally obligated to purchase health care. I know of no such law that requires me to eat Big Macs or work at Wal-Mart.

Business doesn't work that way. Someone will eventually figure out a way to do it better than you and put you out of business. Not many substitutes for trying to work through the red tape with our crappy government, though...