What If....

[JinnRikki]

Two Captured American Soldiers and the Implied "What If":

Chances are, maybe even by the time you read this, the two American soldiers, captured by the Mujahideen Shura Council in Iraq, will be dead, probably in some horrible way, probably with their bodies dumped like all the horribly murdered Iraqis in the blood and gore-strewn landscape that are the markers of Iraqi liberation. The Rude Pundit can't help thinking, though, about the implied "What if" of the capture, on the field of battle, of American soldiers, prisoners of war, if you will.

What if we get pictures of the soldiers, nude, cowering, screaming in a corner, shitting themselves on the filthy floors of a makeshift cell, as their captors hold snarling dogs on leashes just out of bite range of the soldiers?

What if we learn that their captors decide that the soldiers can offer intelligence that can be of use to al-Qaeda and, in order to get that information, the captors put the nude soldiers into rooms that are heated to hellish temperatures, followed by rooms that are impossibly cold with colder water tossed onto them? What if the soldiers are made to stand for days on end? Put into stress positions that fuck up their muscles and limbs? Denied sleep? Had loud music played into their cells? Kept in isolation and fed bread and water for days, weeks on end?

What if they strap one or both of those Americans to a board and hold them underwater until their drowning reflex forces them to panic, thrash, claw desperately for air, only to be brought up to breathe and then placed underwater again? And again? Until the captors get the answers they seek?

What if those captors take the nude, sleep-deprived, shit and piss-covered, nearly drowned and dog-frightened American soldiers and handcuff them to beds with women's panties on their heads, snapping photographs and laughing, talking about publishing the photos so that everyone can see the soldiers with their panty-sniffing heads and terror-shriveled cocks, so that all of al-Qaeda can laugh at what pussies Americans can be made to seem?

What if, and, really, does it need to be said, they are made to stand, hooded, with faux electrodes attached to their nuts and fingers, told that if they don't start answering questions, well, testicles only can take so much electroshock before they just pop like squeezed grapes?

What will our government do? What could it do? Could it condemn the actions as not abiding by the Geneva Conventions? Could it call the actions "torture"? Could it demand accountability? Could it demand that the soldiers be treated as POWs? Could it simply say, "Well, we don't do that shit...anymore"?

And what about the good right-wing punditry? Would Rush Limbaugh look at the photos of the nude, cowering Americans and say it looks like fraternity hazing or some such shit? Would others dismiss it as a media fabrication? Or would they just pathetically overlook everything done in our American names to Iraqis, Afghanis, and others, calling madly for the heads of the captors, not even thinking about the irony of such a statement?

It goes without saying, but, considering the times, perhaps it needs to be said: the Rude Pundit wishes none of this on Privates Thomas Tucker and Kristian Menchaca. He hopes they are found or released safe and sound. But he also wishes none of this on our prisoners, whether in Iraq, at Gitmo, or in secret prisons or countries of rendition where fuck-all can happen with no law, no regulation, no hope to bespeak our putative humanity.

// posted by Rude One @ 6:41 AM

We now know these things didn't happen, at least to our knowledge. But what if...what could we say?

 

[teazeman]

WOW!!!!! Geat post.

 

[Anti-liberal]

Again...is there a point you are making somewhere? Are you trying to push moral equivelancy, or are you saying that your own defenders are no better than terrorists, or that you can't figure out who are the good guys and who are the bad guys?

 

[RobFunk]

This shit is just like vietnam fuck that shit

It's just like when the guy dropped napalm over the wrong damn village, we get a picture of a fuckn 9 year old girl running naked with her back burning. This is what it took for tards to understand that the shit is a bad idea.

Now what, you get two tortured guys after a capture. Some real brutal shit. Youre going to look at me, now what noob? Stay the course! Is that what youre going to say to me?

Are you going to use this, to belittle the other 2500 dead?!

 

[JinnRikki]

Again...is there a point you are making somewhere? Are you trying to push moral equivelancy, or are you saying that your own defenders are no better than terrorists, or that you can't figure out who are the good guys and who are the bad guys?

I think the piece is pretty plain, and I agree, you can't condemn others for atrocities that you engage in.
Do you have a comprehension problem? This will be the last time I go to the trouble of explaining to you what to anyone else would be glaringly apparent.
Your attempts to incite me are a waste of time.

 

[docmercer]

I think the piece is pretty plain, and I agree, you can't condemn others for atrocities that you engage in.
Do you have a comprehension problem? This will be the last time I go to the trouble of explaining to you what to anyone else would be glaringly apparent.
Your attempts to incite me are a waste of time.

You know...with that avatar...it almost invites incitement lol.

"Because I'm an IDIOT!" (Lewis Black)

 

[BASEHEAD]

What if they chopped off thier heads? No need for what ifs here is there Jinn?

We engaged in this Jinn? We engage in using children as sheilds?

We dress like civilians and randomly fire away in crowded markets?

Blow up cafes? Use trashpiles as camoflage for bombs on the side of the road?

If these "what ifs" were reality maybe the soldiers would still be alive.....but the truth is the "freedom fighters" are much more barbaric than the US troops will ever be.

BTW I saw that Amnesty claims the torture of these US soldiers may amount to a war crime......who will they charge? George W Bush?

 

[RobFunk]

• We no longer MFG electric vehicals. Even though people were extremely happy with them.
  
• We're in Iraq blowing a ton of money to stop guys with AK-47's and makeshift car bombs. What does this have to do with 9/11? These guys can't even afford a damn plane ticket.
  
• It's a relegious war. Well, to them it is. They are killing our troops in the name of god. I think our troops are just screaming GOD! while getting shot at.
  
• Jesus would have been against any of this. You can not support all of this murder and say you love Christ. Just does'nt work like that. Peep the scriptures.
  
• Gas is fucking expensive. If we win the war, prices will be like the Clinton days! Yeah. You will still have republican noobs thinking they have a piece of the pie but don't reap any of the benefits.
  
• At the pump, how can you not feel like an idiot?! I'm a proud republican! Filling up on 2+ dollars a gallon gas. It's the most embarrasing shit. You guys must feel like idiots. How can you not?!

 

[JinnRikki]

Yes base, and all of those things were predictable and predicted before this misadventure. And now you exclaim I'm shocked, shocked that these people would be so barbaric. We knew they were and we knew it would take all our willpower to not sink to their level of depravity.
Time takes it's toll we will see more "atrocities" by both sides before this plays out.

 

[Anti-liberal]

I think the piece is pretty plain, and I agree, you can't condemn others for atrocities that you engage in.

Ah...moral equivelancy. You think our defenders are on the same moral level as the terrorists. And that's your opinion.

We've had hundreds of thousands of troops over there in Iraq and yes, an extremely small number of them can get out of hand from time to time. Through courts martials, our armed forces try to police themselves and bring these few to justice whenever possible. I doubt you'll see AQ holding any hearings to punish the tortures of these two wonderful young men who were slaughtered in such a cruel way. We're a nation of law and democracy. They are fighting for terror and tiranny.

 

[JinnRikki]

Ah...moral equivelancy. You think our defenders are on the same moral level as the terrorists. And that's your opinion.

We've had hundreds of thousands of troops over there in Iraq and yes, an extremely small number of them can get out of hand from time to time. Through courts martials, our armed forces try to police themselves and bring these few to justice whenever possible. I doubt you'll see AQ holding any hearings to punish the tortures of these two wonderful young men who were slaughtered in such a cruel way. We're a nation of law and democracy. They are fighting for terror and tiranny.

Actually not hundreds of thousands, if so we may have had this wrapped up by now. But the thing is we have been given so many reasons for being there that the mind reels.
If these people want democracy they will get it even if we leave. We are in the middle of a civil war, has nothing to do with the war on terror except that now we have created a breeding/training ground for the jihadists.
How many more lives, treasure and stature in the world are you prepaired to sacrifice for this mistake?

 

[JoeContrarian]

The war was a 'mistake' guys: "Bush lied, kids died." "There were no WMD....blah, blah, blah...."

Bush should take on his critics head-on by going on national tv and apologize for removing Saddam from power, just to showcase how idiotic the Cindy Sheehan/Teddy Kennedy/Martha Murtha/Michael Moore/John Kerry moonbats truly are.

At least one of them is about to commit suicide starving herself to death, becoming a martyr -- just like her islamofascist alies. If only the remaining "anti-war" poseurs blaming the United States at every turn, would join in.

Yes, yes, yes, removing a psychopathic, unpredictable mass murderer from power was a 'mistake.'

Christ, how STUPID and ignorant can you leftists possibly become????

:wierdo:

 

[JinnRikki]

If they didn't have smilies how would you express yourself Jo, throw feces at the monitor?

 

[BASEHEAD]

Yes base, and all of those things were predictable and predicted before this misadventure. And now you exclaim I'm shocked, shocked that these people would be so barbaric. We knew they were and we knew it would take all our willpower to not sink to their level of depravity.
Time takes it's toll we will see more "atrocities" by both sides before this plays out.

Whos claiming to be shocked?After seeing what happened on 911 is there really any question about the barbaric nature of the fundamental islamists.Im shocked however to see some of you seeming to,in a round about way,say these soldiers reaped what they had sewn.

Sad commentary on your ideology if you agree with him.

Water torture? Being naked and letting a dog bark at you? These are the examples he wants to equalize to torture by God knows what and finally decapitation?

If you cant see the clear and obvious difference I feel sorry for you.

 

[Anti-liberal]

Yes base, and all of those things were predictable and predicted before this misadventure. And now you exclaim I'm shocked, shocked that these people would be so barbaric. We knew they were and we knew it would take all our willpower to not sink to their level of depravity.
Time takes it's toll we will see more "atrocities" by both sides before this plays out.

It would be impossible to name one war in which "atrocities" weren't committed by BOTH sides. The torture and brutal murder of these two soldiers didn't come as a surprise to me at all. I'm only surprised it didn't happen sooner. Maybe they didn't want to give our soldiers a reason for kicking their asses worse than they already were. Anyways, I was hoping maybe a deal could have been brokered for their safe return, probably with a payoff, but obviously it didn't happen.

As far as moral equivilancy goes, and whether or not our soldiers conduct themselves any better than the terrorists, I don't care. If our troops were no better morally than your average terrorist, I would still support them 100% because they are MY defenders. I'm sick of these liberals groping for moral equivelancy anecdotes to pluck out of this conflict to say "See!!! We're not better than they are!!!", at which point they extend sympathy to our enemy that they do not even extend to their own defenders.

 

[JinnRikki]

Water torture? Being naked and letting a dog bark at you? These are the examples he wants to equalize to torture by God knows what and finally decapitation?

Reaped what they had sewn? Reaped what our leaders had sewn, maybe.
No base, that is what they would have done had they been smart barbarians and wanted to make a moral equivalency point. They would have done to them what we did to prisoners at Abu Ghraib, video taped it, let the soldiers loose in the desert and released the tape to the media.
They didn't do that, they tortured and slaughtered them and in so doing moved there cause backward.
But this may be a good sign in as much as the ones running their show may be getting to the bottom of the barrel, so to speak.

 

[Anti-liberal]

But this may be a good sign in as much as the ones running their show may be getting to the bottom of the barrel, so to speak.

Interesting thought.

 

[BASEHEAD]

Reaped what they had sewn? Reaped what our leaders had sewn, maybe.
No base, that is what they would have done had they been smart barbarians and wanted to make a moral equivalency point. They would have done to them what we did to prisoners at Abu Ghraib, video taped it, let the soldiers loose in the desert and released the tape to the media.
They didn't do that, they tortured and slaughtered them and in so doing moved there cause backward.
But this may be a good sign in as much as the ones running their show may be getting to the bottom of the barrel, so to speak.

Sadly Im sure there is a tape of this and Im sure its going to be released to the media.Its been obvious for awhile the desperation had set in for the insurgency in Iraq.Why do you reckon civilian deaths have jumped so rapidly.Easy,low threat targets.....thats why the ability of thirty ragheads to be able to overrun a checkpoint makes one worry.I feel the opposite....the civilians the insurgency murders are the ones that drive the country to rebel against being taken over by terrorists.Since IMO alot of the countrys general population wants us gone the thought of a dead US soldier doesnt even phase them.Certainly not enough to want to stop terror in their country by any means necessary.I dont think it advances thier effort but in no way will the outrage be so great that it weakens them.It may help to once again step up the magnitude of the US military operational gameplan which could certainly work against the freedom fighters.

 

[koidog]

Please. How about "What if" I had a magic wand and said: I am going to make you a person who becomes captured by the enemy...

Would you rather have your captors be US Troops or Al-Queda?

Our "Torture" of 3 squares a day and freedom to their wacked job Religion, doesn't compare to being brutalized and then Beheaded does it?

 

[JinnRikki]

And I disagree with you base, strange I know. After the killing of the Blackwater mercenaries in Fallujah we ratcheted up the heat level. I think the insurgency since then has made an attempt to not make a big show of killing U.S. troops knowing that the response will be overwhelming.
What I mean is they use IED's, engage in fire fights etc. but this seemed to be staged as an in your face act against our military. Not smart.
I just feel that whoever did these kidnappings were either rogue elements or the insurgent strategists are getting dumber.