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http://qz.com/374516/on-sanctions-relief-russia-and-china-are-on-irans-side/

On sanctions relief, Russia and China are on Iran’s side


um, well there's a surprise...:)


'Iran and the outside world still can’t quite see eye to eye, right?


Right, but that is not the only big problem. It turns out one of the main hitches in the talks is the outside world itself, the so-called P5+1. A red line for the US-led side is robust retention of sanctions to ensure Iranian compliance over the period of the deal. This includes a so-called “snap-back” provision, proposed by the US and France, of harsh sanctions should Iran cheat.


Iran’s negotiating team, however, has demanded that all oil and financial sanctions be lifted simultaneously and immediately, with no snap-back.


This position has attracted some advocates on the P5+1 side. Though ostensibly allied with the US, France, Germany and the UK in the talks, Russia and China are siding with Iran on the issue of the snap-backs. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov has publicly said that all the sanctions must be dropped immediately.'


Yes no surprise. The same 2 countries that veto nearly every security council resolution proposed by US, UK, France.

Russia is on the receiving end of severe sanctions and a way of getting back at US and Europe sanctions on Russia, would be to see the concept of sanctions been broken as a leverage.
 

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http://qz.com/374516/on-sanctions-relief-russia-and-china-are-on-irans-side/

On sanctions relief, Russia and China are on Iran’s side


um, well there's a surprise...:)


'Iran and the outside world still can’t quite see eye to eye, right?


Right, but that is not the only big problem. It turns out one of the main hitches in the talks is the outside world itself, the so-called P5+1. A red line for the US-led side is robust retention of sanctions to ensure Iranian compliance over the period of the deal. This includes a so-called “snap-back” provision, proposed by the US and France, of harsh sanctions should Iran cheat.


Iran’s negotiating team, however, has demanded that all oil and financial sanctions be lifted simultaneously and immediately, with no snap-back.


This position has attracted some advocates on the P5+1 side. Though ostensibly allied with the US, France, Germany and the UK in the talks, Russia and China are siding with Iran on the issue of the snap-backs. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov has publicly said that all the sanctions must be dropped immediately.'


Yes no surprise. The same 2 countries that veto nearly every security council resolution proposed by US, UK, France.

Russia is on the receiving end of severe sanctions and a way of getting back at US and Europe sanctions on Russia, would be to see the concept of sanctions been broken as a leverage.


China is the reason NK has the NUKE. China is the only reason NK exists.

Russia, and that means Putin is only too willing to use his nuclear arsenal against any aggressor, he has no fear of an Iranian nuke coming his way, because he can accept a loss of a city unlike the USA, . Then he would retaliate with a complete obliteration of Iran. The same for China. The US values the lives of its citizens, Russia and China do not.

Israel could not survive from one single nuclear bomb due to its small size.

Russia and China don't give a shit about Israel.


Israel needs to go it alone .
 

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Yes no surprise. The same 2 countries that veto nearly every security council resolution proposed by US, UK, France.

Russia is on the receiving end of severe sanctions and a way of getting back at US and Europe sanctions on Russia, would be to see the concept of sanctions been broken as a leverage.

Wait, I thought WE were on Iran's side against the other 5? The story keeps changing because there are forces that are trying to sabotage these talks in any and every way possible so that they fail, and then the War Mongers get what they want. War.
 

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Yes no surprise. The same 2 countries that veto nearly every security council resolution proposed by US, UK, France.

Russia is on the receiving end of severe sanctions and a way of getting back at US and Europe sanctions on Russia, would be to see the concept of sanctions been broken as a leverage.


China is the reason NK has the NUKE. China is the only reason NK exists.

Russia, and that means Putin is only too willing to use his nuclear arsenal against any aggressor, he has no fear of an Iranian nuke coming his way, because he can accept a loss of a city unlike the USA, . Then he would retaliate with a complete obliteration of Iran. The same for China. The US values the lives of its citizens, Russia and China do not.

Israel could not survive from one single nuclear bomb due to its small size.

Russia and China don't give a shit about Israel.


Israel needs to go it alone .

Bibi keeps doing the insane shit he does, they will be.
 

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Yes no surprise. The same 2 countries that veto nearly every security council resolution proposed by US, UK, France.

Russia is on the receiving end of severe sanctions and a way of getting back at US and Europe sanctions on Russia, would be to see the concept of sanctions been broken as a leverage.


Yup. In fact that's documented

'Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov was quoted by the Russian news organization Interfax as saying the recent sanctions announced by the European Union and U.S. may force Russia to retaliate by altering its stance on the Iran talks.'

http://www.wnd.com/2014/03/russia-warns-u-s-it-may-play-iran-card-on-ukraine/

to think Russia CARES whether Iran is nuclear or not is hysterical!!!


the fact that Russia is a part of negotiations makes the whole process a gross farce.


um, Budapest Memorandum ? :)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances




China is Iran's largest OIL trading partner; how can China in good faith be okay with a NO snap-back policy? I'd like an explanation :)
 

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Memories are precious.

Russia and China veto UN move to refer Syria to international criminal court
Washington condemns Moscow and Beijing for sinking draft resolution backed by 65 countries and rest of security council.

Russia and China have vetoed a draft UN resolution calling for the crisis in Syria to be referred to the international criminal court – ignoring support for the measure by 65 other countries and all other members of the security council.
Vitaly Churkin, Russia's UN ambassador, had earlier dismissed the vote as a "publicity stunt" and warned that if the resolution had passed it would hinder efforts to end the country's three-year war. However, no peace negotiations are currently taking place.
Thirteen of the security council's 15 members voted for the resolution. Russia andChina both cast their vetoes – which are restricted to the five permanent members.
Samantha Power, the US ambassador, immediately attacked Moscow and Beijing, saying: "The Syrian people will not see justice today. They will see crime, but not punishment. The vetoes today have prevented the victims of atrocities from testifying at The Hague."
 

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Memories are precious.

[h=1]Getting to ‘No’ Why Russia Loves the Veto[/h]But if history is any guide, to be a successful Russian ambassador to the United Nations you really need only learn to say one word, again and again: “no.”

In the 67-year history of the United Nations, Russia has cast more veto votes than any other Security Council member. Its 128 vetoes account for nearly half of all vetoes in the council’s history, more than the number cast by the United States and Great Britain combined.
While the veto gives Security Council members outsized power, former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said that Russia’s love affair with the no vote actually weakens the country’s standing and takes entire council’s influence down a peg as well.
“Russian power, in many respects, is reflected through their capability of having the veto in the Security Council
 

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The problem is the snapback. It's the old battle of the "automatic trigger" mechanism for U.N. action that Russia has always opposed, because it would undermine its veto. Russia has never made any secret of its position on the issue.
Russia, which along with China, Britain, France and the United States is a veto-wielding permanent member of the 15-nation Security Council. Traditionally Moscow guards its veto rights jealously, as do the other four. It is one of the main sources of Russia's leverage as a major global diplomatic power.
"Russia has never been ready to give up its veto power and the status that gives it," said Mark Fitzpatrick, of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.
"It doesn't want to forgo any future decision to play a role in either impeding American diplomacy or possibly playing a card positively in the future," he added. "They don’t want to give up leverage now that could be useful in the future."
It is a central issue in the case of Iran. If Tehran fails to comply with a nuclear agreement and Western powers decide that U.N. sanctions should be reimposed, if there is no trigger, a new Security Council resolution would be required. And sanctions resolutions can be a tough sell for Russia and China.
In such a case, Western diplomats say, Russia could, and most likely would, veto any attempt to restore U.N. sanctions on Iran. As a result, any so-called temporary relief involving U.N. nuclear sanctions or other U.N. measures would be permanent.
 

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Russia and China really have the West's best interests at heart. NOT.

Of course not. They have their own interests, and it's in their best interest that Iran doesn't get Nukes, same as all the other P5+1, and the rest of the world. That's why the success of these talks are so important.
 

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Sometimes I think our bear should probably just sit quietly and just eat honey instead of hunting animals, maybe then they will leave the bear in peace, but, no, they will not. What they are trying to do is chain the bear, and when they chain the bear they will take out his fangs and claws. This is how nuclear deterrence is working at the moment. If they take out the bear’s fangs and claws, then the bear will not be able to do anything. It will just be a stuffed animal.”



:)
 

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Trusting the Ayatollahs - Raymond Ibrahim (American Thinker)

SUMMARY:

The Islamic doctrine of taqiyya permits Muslims to deceive non-Muslims.

The Islamic prophet Muhammad himself regularly lied to his infidel enemies, often resulting in their murder. He also proclaimed that lying was permissible in three contexts, one being war.

Moreover, taqiyya became second nature to the Shia - the sect ruling Iran.

Islamic law takes circumstance into account. Reach peace when weak, wage war when strong, has been an Islamic modus operandi for centuries.

It's all very standard for Islamic leaders to say they are pursuing nuclear energy for peaceful purposes while they are weaker than their infidel foes - as Iran is today - but once they acquire nukes, the jihad can resume in earnest.


Full Article:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/03/trusting_the_ayatollahs.html
 

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Thanks Obama. And Kerry. And all the other participants. Great job at trying to make the world a bit safer, even while the war mongers are trying to sabotage this at every step. The sane world appreciates your efforts.
images
 

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We just need one more day to squeeze out a non-binding agreement with a sworn enemy!

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Ehud Barak: Iran Has Escaped a Noose
Time.com

Ehud Barak is the former Prime Minister of Israel.

There is a perception across the Middle East that America is weakened.

It’s bad, just not as bad as we were expecting.

The leaks over recent weeks from the negotiations to decide the fate of the Iranian nuclear program suggested more concessions from world powers than were announced in Switzerland on Thursday, but as always heaven and hell both reside in the details.

Much can go wrong before June 30, when the accord described in Laussane must be rendered into unambiguous specifics. But it is important to stand as far back as possible and see what is happening from the long view, which is certainly what the rulers of Iran are doing.

History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes, as Mark Twain put it. Six times in the last generation, secondary nations have launched programs aimed at producing a nuclear arsenal. Two were persuaded to surrender their ambition voluntarily: Libya and South Africa. Two were stopped by surgical airstrikes: Iraq and Syria. The final two — Pakistan and North Korea — got the bomb, and got it following a path not so different than the one the ayatollahs are treading today.

There is a perception across the Middle East that America is weakened. I believe the perception is wrong. The United States remains the world’s mightiest military, economic and diplomatic power by far, with reach and abilities beyond rival. But perception these days works as reality, and the common view is that America negotiated not out of strength but out of an appetite to obtain a deal. This by itself allowed Iran an advantage in the negotiations, and that advantage has been enhanced by the announcement of an agreement.

Making a deal with the United States — one that allows Iran’s leadership to announce relief from all sanctions without shuttering a single nuclear facility — surely strengthens the Iranians, and that bodes ill from Iran in other arenas. I believe President Obama means everything he says about sticking to the unprecedented backing of Israel and keeping all options on the table against Tehran, as well as countering its adventures in Syria, Yemen, and Iraq. But that’s not the way the Middle East’s leadership — on both sides — will read it. Not in Tehran or Damascus and not in Riyadh, in Abu Dhabi, in Cairo, in Ankara, and certainly not in Tel Aviv.

The Iranians base their military support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Hizballah, and the Yemen rebels on asymmetry, and the concept has also worked for them in the nuclear negotiations. Their opponents are a coalition — formidable, but also unwieldy, and unlikely to be reassembled once it comes apart. By comparison, Tehran can move with relative nimbleness, on the order of a single person. And so, even if a final accord warns that sanctions can be snapped back, the mullahs know that that consensus is difficult to resume; elastic grows slack. The mullahs also know that the risk of a military strike is greatly reduced. Why? That’s the reality when you go so deep into negotiations.

But President Obama does our side no favor by arguing that a strike will ignite another Middle East war. A surgical strike on key nuclear facilities in Iran can throw them five years backward, and a repetition would become a major Iranian worry. On the spectrum of military actions, this would be closer to the raid that killed Osama bin Laden than to the invasion of Iraq. The possibility should not be rhetorically holstered. It may, finally, later down the stream be the only language Iran understands.

It’s clear to me that as long as the ayatollahs are in power, their behavior will be guided not by their signatures on a paper, but by the extent to which they worry about resumed biting sanctions and the possibility of kinetic attack. That’s what brought them where they are, and that’s what will keep them there.

The deal described in Switzerland is not what Israel wanted. I would prefer 1,000 centrifuges instead of 6,000. Fordow closed altogether. And all enriched uranium shipped out of the country. Why? So that when the day arrives that the Iranian leadership announces, as North Korea did, that it has expelled the inspectors or that it is withdrawing from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, it must start its sprint for the bomb from that much further back.

Probably we are in a moment of grace. But it is only a moment. Iran wants to get to a signature in June, and the relief from sanctions that will soon follow. The smiles they wear are the smiles of a man who has escaped a noose. Don’t let him get too far.
 

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Entrenched interests of the Revolutionary Guard will likely prevent Iranians from feeling the full benefit of sanctions being lifted.
 

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IDF General: 'Dramatic Steps' Possible on Iran

'Where Israel feels its existence depends on action, it will take it,' says Maj. Gen. Nimrod Sheffer, head of IDF Planning Directorate.

By Gil Ronen

First Publish: 4/4/2015, 7:59 PM


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Maj. Gen. Nimrod Sheffer
Miriam Alster, Flash 90


Maj. Gen. Nimrod Sheffer, the head of the Israel Defense Forces Planning Directorate, told Israel Hayom in a weekend interview that when Israeli leaders say “all options are on the table” with regard to Iran, they mean it.

“If someone builds a nuclear bomb and at the same time declares that the State of Israel has no right to exist, then we have to think about how to respond,” he said.

“It goes beyond a simple challenge."

When asked if Israel might take “dramatic steps” in defiance of the American position, Sheffer answered positively: "When it comes to our national security, the answer is yes."

Israel Hayom
asked Shefer, even more specifically, if he could envision a situation in which Israeli jets bomb an Iranian nuclear facility in defiance of the U.S.

"Since it has already happened in the past, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't happen again,” he replied. “I think that where Israel feels its existence depends on action, it will take it. I think that any true partner would accept that, and I honestly think that the Americans are in fact true partners, despite all the tension...

“As long as Israel instructs its army to do what it has to do because that is the right thing to do for Israel's security, I think it will be accepted. That is why I am certain that any decision on this issue will not be the thing that destroys the relationship between the U.S. and Israel."

The nuclear deal between the P5+1 powers and Iran, as it is emerging right now, “will not be a good deal for Israel,” he assessed. “If such a deal is ultimately signed, we will have to ask ourselves 'okay, what are we going to do with this?'"

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu issued his first public reaction Friday to Thursday's announcement of a "framework deal" between Iran and the P5+1 world powers over Tehran's nuclear plan.

"Such a deal does not block Iran's path to the bomb. Such a deal paves Iran's path to the bomb. And it might very well spark a nuclear arms race throughout the Middle East and it would greatly increase the risks of terrible war," he said.

"Iran is a regime that openly calls for Israel's destruction and openly and actively works towards that end. Just two days ago, in the midst of the negotiations in Lausanne, the commander of the Basij security forces in Iran said this: 'The destruction of Israel is non-negotiable.' Well, I want to make clear to all. The survival of Israel is non-negotiable.

"Israel will not accept an agreement which allows a country that vows to annihilate us to develop nuclear weapons, period."
 

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Iran disputes US nuclear deal 'fact sheet'




Foreign minister takes issue with statement that refers to sanctions being suspended rather than lifted and says Iran could resume nuclear programme if west does not honour agreement


ba8c103a-13d9-4184-824f-4bbe70e4a476-300x180.jpeg


Mohammad Javad Zarif received a hero’s welcome when he returned from the talks. Photograph: Ebrahim Noroozi/AP




All UN security council resolutions related to Iran’s nuclear programme will be lifted immediately if a final deal is agreed, Tehran’s foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, said on Saturday, stressing the benefits to Iran of this week’s negotiations.
After leading Iranian negotiators to a preliminary deal with world powers in Switzerland, Zarif must now convince a domestic audience that the talks are heading toward a final deal that is in Iran’s interest.
He disputed a “fact sheet” released by the US shortly after the deal that emphasised Iranian concessions and referred to sanctions being suspended rather than lifted and only after confirmation that Tehran has complied with the terms of the agreement.
“The Americans put what they wanted in the fact sheet … I even protested this issue with [US secretary of state John] Kerry himself,” he said in a television interview cited by the Fars news agency, adding that the UN security council would oversee any deal.
“Either side in this agreement can, in the case of the other side violating the agreement, cease its own steps,” Zarif said. He mirrored earlier comments by the US president, Barack Obama, that sanctions could be reapplied if Iran did not stick to its word.
“Whatever work we have on the nuclear programme can be restored … Our knowledge is local and no one can take that away from us,” he added.
Iran’s lead negotiator, who was welcomed back to Tehran by cheering crowds on Friday, insisted that Iran had negotiated from a position of strength to secure a good preliminary deal.
He pointed to the changes in the demands of the P5+1 group of countries – the US, France, Britain, Germany, Russia and China – as evidence of the success of negotiations that began two years ago.
“They realised they can’t shut down Iran’s nuclear programme.”
Zarif said Iran would keep its promises so long as the west also did so, and suggested a deal could open the door to more productive relations with the international community, echoing comments on Friday by President Hassan Rouhani.
“We don’t want anything more than our rights,” he said. “We’ve never pursued a bomb in the past or now. We’re also not looking for regional hegemony. We want good relations with our neighbours in the region.“
US officials have insisted that a detailed list of specific items agreed at the Lausanne talks, which the US side released on Thursday, was not open to further negotiation and would be part of the final overall agreement to be worked out by end-June.
A senior US official told reporters on Friday that Iran and the six nations had agreed they could release their own interpretations of the deal, but there were not to be any discrepancies about facts.
“We understood we would have different narratives, but we wouldn’t contradict each other,” the official said.
The US fact sheet described its contents as “the key parameters” of a final deal to be agreed by 30 June. It said key details were subject to further negotiation, adding that “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”.
Separately, France has released its own fact sheet on the nuclear deal, which includes additional detail about the easing of limitations on Iran’s enrichment programme after 10 years. While it does not contradict the US fact sheet, it notes that Tehran would eventually be able to use advanced centrifuges.
The French fact sheet said Tehran would be allowed a “gradual and precisely defined increase in (enrichment) capacity between the 10th and 13th years with the introduction of advanced IR-2 and IR-4 centrifuges”.
The fact that under a final deal Tehran would eventually be permitted to use advanced centrifuges that purify uranium several times more efficiently than the first generation IR-1 machines Iran currently uses is likely to raise concerns in Israel and Republican-dominated US Congress.
Under the Lausanne agreement, Tehran would only use IR-1s for the first decade.
 

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[h=1]Iran’s Persian statement on ‘deal’ contradicts Obama’s claims[/h]By Amir Taheri

April 4, 2015 | 4:35pm

“Iran Agrees to Detailed Nuclear Outline,” The New York Times headline claimed on Friday. That found an echo in the Washington Post headline of the same day: “Iran agrees to nuclear restrictions in framework deal with world powers.”
But the first thing to know about the highly hyped “historic achievement” that President Obama is trying to sell is that there has been no agreement on any of the fundamental issues that led to international concern about Iran’s secret nuclear activities and led to six mandatory resolutions by the United Nations Security Council and 13 years of diplomatic seesaw.
All we have is a number of contradictory statements by various participants in the latest round of talks in Switzerland, which together amount to a diplomatic dog’s dinner.

First, we have a joint statement in English in 291 words by Iranian Foreign Minister Muhammad Javad Zarif and the European Union foreign policy point-woman Federica Mogherini, who led the so-called P5+1 group of nations including the US in the negotiations.


Next we have the official Iranian text, in Persian, which runs into 512 words. The text put out by the French comes with 231 words. The prize for “spinner-in-chief” goes to US Secretary of State John Kerry who has put out a text in 1,318 words and acts as if we have a done deal.
It is not only in their length that the texts differ.
They amount to different, at times starkly contradictory, narratives.
The Mogherini and French texts are vague enough to be ultimately meaningless, even as spin.
The Persian text carefully avoids words that might give the impression that anything has been agreed by the Iranian side or that the Islamic Republic has offered any concessions.
The Iranian text is labelled as a press statement only. The American text, however, pretends to enumerate “Parameters for a Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action” and claims key points have been “decided.” What remains to be done is work out “implementation details.”
When referring to what Iran is supposed to do, the Iranian text uses a device of Persian grammar known as “nakarah,” a form of verbs in which the authorship of a deed remains open to speculation.
For example: “ It then happened that . . .” or “that is to be done.”
But when it comes to things the US and allies are supposed to do, the grammatical form used is “maerfah” which means the precise identification of the author.
This is an example of the first form: “The nuclear facilities at Fordow shall be developed into a center for nuclear research and advanced Physics.” It is not clear who is going to do those things, over what length of time, and whether that would be subject to any international supervision.



An example of the second form: “The United Nations shall abrogate its previous resolutions while the United States and the European Union will immediately lift sanctions [imposed on] financial, banking, insurance, investment and all services related to oil, gas, petrochemicals and car industry.”
The Iranian text opens by insisting that it has absolutely no “legal aspect” and is intended only as “a guideline for drafting future accords.”
The American text claims that Iran has agreed to do this or that, for example reducing the number of centrifuges from 19,000 to 6,500.
The Iranian text, however, says that Iran “shall be able to . . .” or “qader khahad boud” in Farsi to do such a thing. The same is true about enrichment in Fordow. The Americans say Iran has agreed to stop enrichment there for 15 years. The Iranian text, however, refers to this as something that Iran “will be able to do,” if it so wished.
Sometimes the two texts are diametrically opposed.
The American statement claims that Iran has agreed not to use advanced centrifuges, each of which could do the work of 10 old ones. The Iranian text, however, insists that “on the basis of solutions found, work on advanced centrifuges shall continue on the basis of a 10-year plan.”
The American text claims that Iran has agreed to dismantle the core of the heavy water plutonium plant in Arak. The Iranian text says the opposite. The plant shall remain and be updated and modernized.
In the past two days Kerry and Obama and their apologists have been all over the place claiming that the Iranian nuclear project and its military-industrial offshoots would be put under a kind of international tutelage for 10, 15 or even 25 years.
However, the Persian, Italian and French texts contain no such figures.
The US talks of sanctions “ relief” while Iran claims the sanctions would be “immediately terminated.”
The American text claims Tehran has agreed to take measures to reassure the international community on military aspects of its nuclear project, an oblique reference to Iran’s development, with help from North Korea, of missiles designed to carry nuclear warheads. There is absolutely no echo of that in the Iranian and other non-American texts.
In his jubilatory remarks in the Rose Garden Thursday, Obama tried to sell the Americans a bill of goods.
He made three outrageous claims.
The first was that when he became president Iran had “ thousands of centrifuges” which would now be cut down to around 6,000. In fact, in 2008, Iran had only 800 centrifuges. It was on Obama’s watch and because of his perceived weakness that Iran speeded up its nuclear program.
The second claim was that thanks to the scheme he is peddling “all of Iran’s paths” to developing a nuclear arsenal would be blocked. And, yet, in the same remarks he admitted that even if the claimed deal is fully implemented, Iran would still be able to build a bomb in just a year, presumably jumping over the “blocked paths.”
Obama’s worst claim was that the only alternative to his attempts at surrendering to the obnoxious Khomeinist regime would be US involvement in “another ground war in the Middle East.”
He ignores the fact that forcing Iran through diplomatic action, sanctions and proximity pressures to abide by six UN resolutions could also be regarded as an alternative. In other words, preemptive surrender is not the only alternative to war.
Obama is playing a bizarre game that could endanger regional peace and threaten the national security of the US and its allies. He insisted that Kerry secure “something, anything” before April 14 to forestall the US Congress’ planned moves on Iran.
He also wanted to stick it to Netanyahu, settle scores with Republicans, and please his faction within the Democratic Party; in other words, taking strategic risks with national security and international peace in the pursuit of dubious partisan gains.


 

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