So you think online poker is honest?.....PLEASE look at this hand

[Born2Run]

This was a hand from Party Poker. And sure there are many poor players in this world, but they are LOSING players. This is a WINNING player that SELECTIVELY plays hands and ALWAYS catches when he does. You decide for yourself how a WINNING player can play this hand.


#Game No : 4427477816
***** Hand History for Game 4427477816 *****
$10/$20 7 Card Stud - Friday, June 02, 23:42:57 ET 2006
Table Table 96608 (Real Money)
Seat 0 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Chen88888 ( $506.46 )
Seat 3: HK888 ( $725 )
Seat 4: Jack_Wilson ( $423.50 )
Seat 6: dasch_2000 ( $396 )
Seat 2: GmanT_584 ( $571 )
Seat 7: MAXabc ( $766 )
Seat 8: SistaD ( $351.50 )
Seat 5: Radar2255 ( $138.01 )
Chen88888 posts ante [$1].
GmanT_584 posts ante [$1].
Jack_Wilson posts ante [$1].
dasch_2000 posts ante [$1].
SistaD posts ante [$1].
** Dealing **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ Qd 7h Qh ]
Chen88888 opens.
Chen88888 bring-ins [$3].
GmanT_584 calls [$3].
Jack_Wilson folds.
dasch_2000 completes [$10].
SistaD folds.
Chen88888 calls [$7].
GmanT_584 calls [$7].
** Dealing Fourth street **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ Kc ]
dasch_2000 opens.
dasch_2000 bets [$10].
Chen88888 calls [$10].
GmanT_584 folds.
** Dealing Fifth street **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ 2h ]
dasch_2000 opens.
dasch_2000 bets [$20].
Chen88888 calls [$20].
** Dealing Sixth street **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ 8h ]
dasch_2000 opens.
dasch_2000 bets [$20].
Chen88888 calls [$20].
** Dealing River **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ Ts ]
dasch_2000 opens.
dasch_2000 checks.
Chen88888 bets [$20].
dasch_2000 calls [$20].
Chen88888 shows [ 4s, 6s, 2s, Kh, Jd, 3d, 5d ] a straight, two to six.
dasch_2000 doesn't show [ Qd, 7h, Qh, Kc, 2h, 8h, Ts ] a pair of queens.
Chen88888 wins $173 from the main pot with a straight, two to six.



.

 

[Matt24]

Yeah I do(at least the RNGs/Programs). How about the time I lost AA to AK all in preflop in a $1500 buy in event at a major tourney? OMG Live Poker is Rigged

 

[Born2Run]

Yeah I do(at least the RNGs/Programs). How about the time I lost AA to AK all in preflop in a $1500 buy in event at a major tourney? OMG Live Poker is Rigged

I wont even comment on your remarks

 

[Born2Run]

Yeah I do(at least the RNGs/Programs). How about the time I lost AA to AK all in preflop in a $1500 buy in event at a major tourney? OMG Live Poker is Rigged

Or on 2nd thought after looking at your other posts and seeing that you actually HAVE played poker before................did you LOOK at the cards and LOOK at the betting or READ anything I wrote about this player? Apparently not............

 

[QuickLearner]

Posting one hand from a Party $10/$20 Stud game doesn't necessarily prove that online poker is rigged. It does give evidence that there is at lease one calling station in that game. It looks like he started with a 3-flush that also had some straight possibilities, which is plenty for a calling station to take to a showdown.

I give you credit for keeping the pressure on, but you seemed to be putting a lot of faith in a pair of queens. I really like to play Stud, but I'm not very good at it, so I'm interested in whether '1 pair hands' normally take down pots in the $10/$20 game when the betting follows this pattern. Do you play them all this strongly, and how often do you see 2 pair or small trips chase you down?

More important than the result of this one hand is whether you reloaded and got your money back. I would figure that when a calling station catches a gut to beat you you'd say "nice hand," hope he didn't notice the sarcasm, and prey that he stayed at the table so you could bust him. At least that's what I would do.

And to your other point, a calling station who is also a winning player is on a heater. Stay close to him so you'll be one of the recipients when his inevitable downswing hits.

 

[ProPokerPlayer]

If his cards are shown in order recieved then yea he's a dumbass but in 7 card i see em just as dumb everyday.....he started with 3 spades but having not improved by 5th st u would think he would bail out.....

However i got to knock ur play a lil, having only the 1 pr unimproved by 5th st im not sure i would have kept applying the gas, yea he got lucky and hit a straight but he could have hit 2 pr on 5th st and still took u for a big stack of chips...i might have thrown in a ck along the way and seen if he bet it or ckd it also.a ck would indicate he was on a draw of some sort or was just hoping you had nothing and if he could hit anything he'd win the pot.

and then sometimes bad players just get lucky and theres not much you can do,especially in 7 card..

but let me ask you this as far as them rigging it goes.why would they favor him over you???? this is the point that always gets me, why are they rigging it in favor of that guy over you???
I played the 10 rebuy at stars the other night and johnny bax was in it also.....i went all in like 4 times in the 1st hr, won 1 and i swear took the worst fuckin beat imaginable in the other 3. Bax meanwhile is going all-in every other hand and cant fuckin lose !!! he calls with 35os and wins the frickin hand....at the break i have 6000 and he's got 50,000 !!! now y would they rig it in bax's favor instead of mine?? after this tourny win or lose bax can probably put in a 6 figure withdrawal if he wanted to..IF I WIN THE WHOLE TOURNY i couldnt withdraw but maybe 50 bucks more than the tourny pd and would probably donkey off a lot of the winnings that same night.wouldnt they come out ahead rigging it in my favor instead of J. Bax ?????

believe me if we all find out tomorrow its rigged i wont be shocked but i just dont see the logic in it, and im like Matt in that the worst beats ive suffered have been in live games, even though ive played thousands more hands online.....

After many many posts like yours ive finally come to the point where i see that badbeats, suckouts, bad players are all part of the game...believe it or not i dont tilt near bout as bad as i used to when they happen..now its just part of the game and i move on to the next hand.o its frustrating as all hell but i have to keep my sanity....lol
Heres a line from Bodog Aris blog that has helped me alot, and this is coming from maybe the #1 player online..
"that's a lot of failure to go through. Every day, I am busting out of multiple tournies, and clearly as a poker player, I am very competitive, and by nature find it difficult to lose. However, without accepting this component of the game, I would go out of my mind.

It was pretty funny to watch the guy at the world series, complaining about playing "perfect" poker, and still getting bust out. Losing in a tournament often has less to do with your skill, than with the nature of the game; u simply cannot win every time. The sooner u appreciate that fact, the better it will be for your game."

 

[Born2Run]

If his cards are shown in order recieved then yea he's a dumbass but in 7 card i see em just as dumb everyday.....he started with 3 spades but having not improved by 5th st u would think he would bail out.....

However i got to knock ur play a lil, having only the 1 pr unimproved by 5th st im not sure i would have kept applying the gas, yea he got lucky and hit a straight but he could have hit 2 pr on 5th st and still took u for a big stack of chips...i might have thrown in a ck along the way and seen if he bet it or ckd it also.a ck would indicate he was on a draw of some sort or was just hoping you had nothing and if he could hit anything he'd win the pot.

and then sometimes bad players just get lucky and theres not much you can do,especially in 7 card..

but let me ask you this as far as them rigging it goes.why would they favor him over you???? this is the point that always gets me, why are they rigging it in favor of that guy over you???
I played the 10 rebuy at stars the other night and johnny bax was in it also.....i went all in like 4 times in the 1st hr, won 1 and i swear took the worst fuckin beat imaginable in the other 3. Bax meanwhile is going all-in every other hand and cant fuckin lose !!! he calls with 35os and wins the frickin hand....at the break i have 6000 and he's got 50,000 !!! now y would they rig it in bax's favor instead of mine?? after this tourny win or lose bax can probably put in a 6 figure withdrawal if he wanted to..IF I WIN THE WHOLE TOURNY i couldnt withdraw but maybe 50 bucks more than the tourny pd and would probably donkey off a lot of the winnings that same night.wouldnt they come out ahead rigging it in my favor instead of J. Bax ?????

believe me if we all find out tomorrow its rigged i wont be shocked but i just dont see the logic in it, and im like Matt in that the worst beats ive suffered have been in live games, even though ive played thousands more hands online.....

After many many posts like yours ive finally come to the point where i see that badbeats, suckouts, bad players are all part of the game...believe it or not i dont tilt near bout as bad as i used to when they happen..now its just part of the game and i move on to the next hand.o its frustrating as all hell but i have to keep my sanity....lol
Heres a line from Bodog Aris blog that has helped me alot, and this is coming from maybe the #1 player online..
"that's a lot of failure to go through. Every day, I am busting out of multiple tournies, and clearly as a poker player, I am very competitive, and by nature find it difficult to lose. However, without accepting this component of the game, I would go out of my mind.

It was pretty funny to watch the guy at the world series, complaining about playing "perfect" poker, and still getting bust out. Losing in a tournament often has less to do with your skill, than with the nature of the game; u simply cannot win every time. The sooner u appreciate that fact, the better it will be for your game."

I guess I have to spell this out for you guys.......you said you had to knock my play because he could have gotten 2 pair on 5th street....WHAT???????

1ST 3 CARDS: 4s,6s,2s he called the raise to 10, nothing wrong there

4th street : 4s,6s,2s,Kh he calls a $10 bet, ok a little loose but hell maybe he gets the 4th spade on 5th street

5th street : 4s,6s,2s,Kh,Jd he calls a $20 bet............WITH WHAT....NOTHING????

6th street : 4s,6s,2s,Kh,Jd,3d he CALLS a $20 bet??????

River : He got a 5d for the gutshot straight.

I had EVERYBODY at the game review that hand after and most left immediately while one stayed and had the same opinion I did...........

QuickLearner he WAS NOT a calling station is what I was trying to tell you .....he SELECTIVELY calls and ALWAYS caught........I have seen PLENTY of horrible players that have no clue, that was NOT the case here. A bad player will make horrible calls but they ALWAYS make those calls, not just every 20 hands, and they also eventually lose. This guy finally left($500 up) after I and another player talked back and forth about that and other hands he had won....

 

[Born2Run]

1 more thing........I am not saying I think the cards are rigged. What I am saying is that there are SOME players playing that KNOW what cards are going to come. I have been in MANY hands at PP just like this one, and ALWAYS after I expose their play in the room chat they NEVER show up at Party Poker again.....Is that a coincidence too???? I am just stupid for even playing there again.

 

[primetime21+]

born, either stop playing online or stop whining about a random bad beat. Bad beats happen to everyone everyday. Here is one for you from the other day and you don't hear me bitching about rigged sites:

FullTiltPoker Game #681618234: Table Dewey (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:32:48 ET - 2006/06/01
Seat 1: ogurt21 ($246.25)
Seat 2: Sammytown ($130.15)
Seat 3: Owstac ($110.95)
Seat 4: punisher31 ($27.95)
Seat 5: UvaRookie ($131.90)
Seat 6: jesse31176 ($44.50)
jesse31176 posts the small blind of $1
ogurt21 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ogurt21 [As Ad]
Sammytown calls $2
Owstac folds
punisher31 folds
UvaRookie calls $2
jesse31176 calls $1
ogurt21 raises to $11
Sammytown raises to $20
UvaRookie folds
jesse31176 folds
ogurt21 raises to $46
Sammytown calls $26
*** FLOP *** [2c 8c Ts]
ogurt21 bets $106
Sammytown calls $84.15, and is all in
ogurt21 shows [As Ad]
Sammytown shows [9h 9s] (OH MY GOD A 2 OUTER, FULL TILT MUST BE RIGGED)
Uncalled bet of $21.85 returned to ogurt21
*** TURN *** [2c 8c Ts] [6c]
*** RIVER *** [2c 8c Ts 6c] [9d]
ogurt21 shows a pair of Aces
Sammytown shows three of a kind, Nines
Sammytown wins the pot ($261.30) with three of a kind, Nines
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $264.30 | Rake $3
Board: [2c 8c Ts 6c 9d]

 

[RobFunk]

OMG Live Poker is Rigged

That cracked me up.

I know what born2 is saying though. You gotta remember it works both ways. I'm sure you've been beat and won on the river plenty of times.

 

[Born2Run]

Well, I just don't know what else to say......you guys are ABSOLUTELY not getting it. I have played in THOUSANDS of live games, I KNOW what a bad beat is. If somebody stays with ANYTHING marginal and beats me, hell thats just cards. 1 guy posts a "bad beat" of a-a vs 9-9, BIG DEAL thats not even a bad beat. LOOK AT THE HAND I POSTED AND READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT HOW THIS PLAYER PLAYS, geez...... you guys just don't get it.

 

[Born2Run]

You know what, I'm not going to even respond anymore in this thread. This place is supposed to be where we help each other..... I tried to show you evidence that makes it very obvious that some players KNOW what cards are going to come, but if you choose to think its just a bad beat, well just go right ahead and keep playing at these places. Good luck. I will keep playing in the 30-60 40-80 live games that I KNOW I can trust.

 

[primetime21+]

Well, I just don't know what else to say......you guys are ABSOLUTELY not getting it. I have played in THOUSANDS of live games, I KNOW what a bad beat is. If somebody stays with ANYTHING marginal and beats me, hell thats just cards. 1 guy posts a "bad beat" of a-a vs 9-9, BIG DEAL thats not even a bad beat. LOOK AT THE HAND I POSTED AND READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT HOW THIS PLAYER PLAYS, geez...... you guys just don't get it.

You still haven't proven that this player knew what cards were coming. You showed us one hand. If this player knew what hands were coming you should show us dozens of hands and you should show us that he had alot more than 500 at the table. if he knew the cards that were coming i presume he left the table with at least $1,500 and probably even more.

Instead of presenting more proof you just decide to stop posting. If i ever felt i was cheated i would post up all the proof i had of the cheating. Not one marginal hand where a bad player draws out. Big deal.

 

[Born2Run]

You still haven't proven that this player knew what cards were coming. You showed us one hand. If this player knew what hands were coming you should show us dozens of hands and you should show us that he had alot more than 500 at the table. if he knew the cards that were coming i presume he left the table with at least $1,500 and probably even more.

Instead of presenting more proof you just decide to stop posting. If i ever felt i was cheated i would post up all the proof i had of the cheating. Not one marginal hand where a bad player draws out. Big deal.

All I want to accomplish is to put the information out there and each person can make their own conclusion. I know that intelligent players will see what I see and hopefully they will not play at these places. You say he played a "marginal" hand? Where is it marginal? He had no pair, no 4 flush, no straight draw, he had nothing. Hell he didn't even get the 4th card in his straight until the 6th card. These players that "know" don't try to make it too obvious, but they get greedy and screw up occasionally. A bad player that plays those types of hands, plays that way EVERY hand and you don't mind losing to them because you know the money will be coming back around. The players that play this way online, do it SELECTIVELY and I have NEVER seen one of them lose. Coincidence? Absolutely impossible, unless they know the cards that are coming.

You guys all want to call it a bad beat, well here is another hand from the same game that I call a bad beat, just a part of playing cards......I was rolled up, A-A-A 1st 3 cards........I got outdrawn by a flush..........guess by who? Thats right the SAME player, but looking at the cards he did have a pair of 5's early so he did have a reason to be in the hand. The other hand I originally posted he DID NOT.

I will post that hand below and you can draw your own conclusion, that one just looks like a bad beat to me but not the 1st one I posted. If you can't see that there is NO WAY a good player, a winning player, could have played those cards unless he KNEW what was coming then I don't what else to tell you.

And these players don't ever run their bankrolls up to $1500, this particular player left with just under $1000. These "players" try to be smart and make it not look obvious, but pay attention and you will catch them occasionally screw up.


#Game No : 4427902252
***** Hand History for Game 4427902252 *****
$10/$20 7 Card Stud - Saturday, June 03, 00:31:23 ET 2006
Table Table 96608 (Real Money)
Seat 0 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Chen88888 ( $486.46 )
Seat 4: Jack_Wilson ( $139.50 )
Seat 6: dasch_2000 ( $186 )
Seat 2: GmanT_584 ( $704.50 )
Seat 8: SistaD ( $644.50 )
Seat 5: Radar2255 ( $438.51 )
Seat 7: kaiban ( $287 )
Seat 3: lovemycharly ( $124 )
Chen88888 posts ante [$1].
GmanT_584 posts ante [$1].
lovemycharly posts ante [$1].
Jack_Wilson posts ante [$1].
Radar2255 posts ante [$1].
dasch_2000 posts ante [$1].
kaiban posts ante [$1].
SistaD posts ante [$1].
** Dealing **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ Ac Ad As ]
Jack_Wilson opens.
Jack_Wilson bring-ins [$3].
Radar2255 folds.
dasch_2000 calls [$3].
kaiban folds.
SistaD folds.
Chen88888 calls [$3].
GmanT_584 completes [$10].
lovemycharly folds.
Jack_Wilson folds.
dasch_2000 calls [$7].
Chen88888 calls [$7].
** Dealing Fourth street **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ 6d ]
dasch_2000 opens.
dasch_2000 checks.
Chen88888 checks.
GmanT_584 bets [$10].
dasch_2000 calls [$10].
Chen88888 calls [$10].
** Dealing Fifth street **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ 7c ]
dasch_2000 opens.
dasch_2000 checks.
Chen88888 checks.
GmanT_584 bets [$20].
dasch_2000 raises [$40].
Chen88888 calls [$40].
GmanT_584 raises [$40].
dasch_2000 raises [$40].
Chen88888 calls [$40].
GmanT_584 calls [$20].
** Dealing Sixth street **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ 3c ]
dasch_2000 opens.
dasch_2000 bets [$20].
Chen88888 raises [$40].
GmanT_584 calls [$40].
dasch_2000 calls [$20].
** Dealing River **
Dealt to dasch_2000 [ 8s ]
dasch_2000 opens.
dasch_2000 checks.
Chen88888 bets [$20].
GmanT_584 calls [$20].
dasch_2000 calls [$20].
Chen88888 shows [ Js, 5s, 5h, 3s, Ks, 2s, 9c ] a flush, king high.
GmanT_584 doesn't show [ 6s, Jc, Jh, Qh, 6c, Td, 7d ] two pairs, jacks and sixes.
dasch_2000 doesn't show [ Ac, Ad, As, 6d, 7c, 3c, 8s ] three of a kind, aces.
Chen88888 wins $488 from the main pot with a flush, king high.



Now thats a BAD BEAT, and if any other player had outdrawn me I wouldn't think it was any big deal, just a part of playing cards.

 

[primetime21+]

anyone else finding these hands extremely unremarkable? Is that the first time someone has called you down and drawn out a flush on you?

And i you look at the times the first hand occurred at 11:42 PM and the second hand posted occurred at 12:31AM. In that 40 minute time span he managed (with his ability to know the cards before they appear) to turn about 600 into 486 before the flush draw out. He is obviously a calling station that likes to call down bets on any kind of a draw.

If you really suspect he is cheating, send all the HH's to party poker and have them investigate this guys play.

 

[Born2Run]

anyone else finding these hands extremely unremarkable? Is that the first time someone has called you down and drawn out a flush on you?

And i you look at the times the first hand occurred at 11:42 PM and the second hand posted occurred at 12:31AM. In that 40 minute time span he managed (with his ability to know the cards before they appear) to turn about 600 into 486 before the flush draw out. He is obviously a calling station that likes to call down bets on any kind of a draw.

If you really suspect he is cheating, send all the HH's to party poker and have them investigate this guys play.

As I said in my last post, the 2nd hand I posted, that was just a bad beat, but NOT the 1st, and i'm not trying to be obnoxious but if you can't see that you really shouldn't play poker

......and if you saw the chat between myself and a few of the others at the table after the 1st hand you would understand why his bankroll was less 40 minutes later.....then when the talking died down because he lost a few hands BAM he outdrew everybody in 4 hands and left the game with just under a grand.

and your last comment about sending the HH to PP....LOL.... I have done that before, spent hours and hours getting everything together on several players, names ,dates, tables, hand numbers, everything on others who did the same remarkable things..........and guess what? they barely acknowledged it and I NEVER heard anything about it. But guess what else, I NEVER saw any of those players ever again to this day. Who would be able to know the cards coming? Answer=whoever developed their software and PP.

 

[primetime21+]

I think the reason you don't see these players too often is because they eventually go broke. THey hit a hot table and make someone like you think they are "cheaters" and then when the odds even out and they stop hitting their miracle 2 outers they go busto (usually soon thereafter to some lucky bastard at a different table). That is why most of the fish i track rarely appear for too long.

And still, nothing you have posted would tell me that there has been any sort of cheating. I have played hundreds of thousands of hands of online poker with a monster database of stats and nothing leads me to believe online poker is rigged. Unless of course it is rigged in my favor.

And if someone who developed the software is cheating the game he has been kind enough to leave me alone.

I would suggest spending more time on getting better and less time worrying about some massive conspiracy. I have noticed one thing over time, and that is that players that cry about online poker being fixed (one way or another) never get better and inevitably give up. THere are plenty of online poker players that do well. And none that i know of were former PP software developers.

 

[Born2Run]

THe reason I didn't want to go back and forth about this is because there are always going to be people that don't understand and will argue........so, in my final post about this I just want to tell everybody what to look for:


1) These players NEVER chat

2) If you see a suspicious hand, make sure you post the hand # at the table in chat so everybody at the table can review it. In the past,these players have always given some of their winnings back after exposing them.

3) They NEVER leave immediately and NEVER defend themselves. I have no idea why this is (bot?). They will then lose some back and then win that back and a little more then leave. Rarely do they stay for more than an hour more.

4) NEVER have I ever seen one of them leave without winning


Hell, its hard enough to win when things are fair, so good luck if you try at these places.

PS- I have no idea if this applies to tournaments, all of my experiences have been in money ring games. The tournaments could very well be fair, I have no idea.

:toast:

 

[Matt24]

Think about this. Given You know the cards that are coming out. ok. Now would you stay in and make stupid suckouts or just eek a steady profit playing good cards and making a few more turn and river folds?

 

[ProPokerPlayer]

"4) NEVER have I ever seen one of them leave without winning"

I took the opportunity yesterday to look for said player several times....for 1 thing he was multi tabling 10/20 when there were full table 30/60 being played. if i knew what cards were coming id be in the biggest game i could find..but anyway, he seems to buy in for $500 at 2-3 tables at a time, so we know he's got a nice bankroll. also i ckd the tourny players database and he never plays any at all, so this multi tabling is what he does full time.......i watched him in the aft for about an hr and last night for probably 2 hrs.....in the aft he bought in to 2 tables, lost his entire 500 on 1 and was at 430 when he quit the other..last night he was on 2 tables, got 1 up to about 600 when he chased some hands and found himself down to 125, at this point he quit the other game at 435 and started trying to get his money back on the table where he was at 125....for an hr he bounced around and eventually went broke...

But i did see a play that he likes to do that i think is what he may have done to you in that 1 st hand, i saw him do this several times and although it lost for him last night i can see how at times he may be able to win big pots doing it.....heres what i think he was doing.

When a player would enter the pot with say a Q showing and raise the pot he would put him on a big pr. now when a player starts out with a big pr in 7 card what they will usually do is bet the crap out of it trying to get as many people out the pot as possible and win the hand before anyone can improve, make it very costly to draw out on him in other words.....but Chen seemed to relish this situation and would call that raise everytime with nothing and then try to hit something , if he did hit say 2 pr or better the player betting his pckt pr on every street would lose a big pot....i saw him do this probably 6-8 times and last night anyway it only worked in his favor twice and he lost a good bit trying to draw out on these guys, but i could see how if the results were reversed he would have cleaned up on these guys......now you would think that someone who thinks they have a system like this knows that it is +ev over time, im not sure thats the caes cus again if he was sure it pd off he would be doing it at the 30/60 table instead of 10/20.......im going to watch him some more in the next week to see how it goes for him and if what im seeing is what he is actually doing but heres my conclusion so far.........this guy has a huge bankroll that he doesnt mind gambling with and he has found an angle he likes to shoot.the reason i say that is despite being down to 125 and quiting his 2nd game to try to catch up he never stopped trying this play when it looked available to him.......AND if i can see that this is what he does EVERYTIME the opportunity presents itself i believe he might be setting himself up to get his money taken from him......if i know this is what he's doing i think i can work him for his roll ........ofcourse playing 10/20 is way over my normal bankroll but if he's still doing this by say weds or thurs i may sit down at his table and give him a run.if i had say a 3 flush or a 3 straight with a big door card showing and raised the pot he would jump on it thinking i was betting the big pr.when i actually have a lot of outs to improve my hand, he's looking for people betting hands that dont have a lot of outs to improve but are best after 3 cards....hopefully he doesnt read this forum and we are looking to drain him dry soon.........:drink: