SIX DAYS OF SHAME!

[AlphaMale]

Baghdad is under attack. And, as has been the case since the start of the war, there has been no retaliation using banned weapons, further eroding the US claim that Saddam has or would use weapons of mass destruction on the invading army.

The UN is now in a terrible political fix. It was the UN which has disarmed Iraq not only of their WMDs, but also of conventional weapons which would be useful against the illegal invasion. The Al Samoud Missile was ordered destroyed because a test missile, without the weight of a real warhead, flew 15 miles further than it should have. Iraq destroyed these missiles in great numbers under orders from the UN, with the implied promise that if these missiles were destroyed, the UN would prevent a US invasion. The US invaded anyway, and unless the UN take immediate action to halt the war against the Iraqi people the UN disarmed, the UN will soon join the League of Nations on the dust heap of great failed experiments in international law, with Kofi Annan remembered as the man who directed the UN into ruin

Iraqi Chemical Plant Is Clean "Okay, so we were caught in another lie. But it's all for a good cause. No, not the oil, I mean Democracy and that other stuff we're going to do for the rag-heads. But I'm not kidding. any minute now, ANY MINUTE NOW, Iraq is going to use weapons of mass destruction and then Bush will be proved right. any minute. Yep. Any minute. Any minute now........... Let's go grab some lunch."

The Downward SpiralThe Downward Spiral Since we’re in the neighborhood – packin our newfound low tolerance for nuclear bullies and genocidal thugs – how about we march on to Tel Aviv and clean up the real monsters in the hood? They’re the ones with the gasses, viruses, and nukes - and a history of using any means necessary to cleanse Palestine of Palestinians, replacing them with their own “superior stock”. What with their relatives entrenched in the power elite of America to guide us into ever more ambitious hegemonies, this powerful minority also exacts $3 billion a year from taxpayers to underwrite the round-ups, build the camps, and otherwise exterminate the other indigenous populations.

"When in doubt, do it!" Fatty Arbuckle

 

[SAFETANA]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> how about we march on to Tel Aviv and clean up the real monsters in the hood? They’re the ones with the gasses, viruses, and nukes - and a history of using any means necessary to cleanse Palestine of Palestinians, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://discuss.pittsburghlive.com/viewtopic.php?t=9889

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MY BIGGEST LIES:
1- I love you!
2- The check is in the mail!
3- I wont cum in your mouth!

 

[PatPatriot]

Who put out this statment? The Clinton Fedayeen?

 

[Jazz]

Alpha: 'caught in another lie'? Please provide a government or Pentagon source which stated that it had ever been confirmed that it WAS a chemical weapons facility. It was always reported as a suspected site, and that they were waiting for experts to confirm it. You can't - even Fox never said it WAS such a site. Here's what Fox said: "Coalition forces discovered Monday a "huge" suspected chemical weapons factory near the Iraqi city of Najaf, some 90 miles south of Baghdad, a senior Pentagon official confirmed to Fox News."

Concerning your chafing that WMDS have not been used on our troops, I'd say a few things about that. First, good. Secondly, I haven't heard a peep out of you concerning the 3,000 chemical suits and masks found stored in that hospital, nor the atropine injectors found in canvas bags, which are used as an antitidote for VX nerve gas, and Cipro was also found on some of the captured Iraqis, which is of course an antiobiotic effective against anthrax. Do you suppose they had them because they feared such an attack from the US - yes or no?

You've rewritten history with the statement 'with the implied promise that is these missiles were destroyed, the UN would prevent an invasion'. That's laughable in the extreme. Nowhere did I ever hear a word about the UN 'preventing' the US from doing anything, or that the fact that Hussein's final delaying tactic was meant in any sense of sincerity, only another in 12 years of delaying tactics.

Atropine injectors, AM. Cipro, AM. Why?

 

[Banned4Life]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Here's what Fox said: "Coalition forces discovered Monday a "huge" suspected chemical weapons factory near the Iraqi city of Najaf, some 90 miles south of Baghdad, a senior Pentagon official confirmed to Fox News." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And most people will merely ignore the word "suspected" and latch onto the accusation itself. This is a way that the media can lie without actually telling a lie.

 

[Jazz]

The headline also prominently uses that word. It's not a lie. People, however, will jump to conclusions, but they do it for any 'suspected' article.

Again, and I repeat, it's not a lie or attempt to deceive.

 

It's a leading statement.

As were many Bush Administration lies including "evidence" presented to the American FORGED documents. Ground for impeachment.

But does the average American care? No, of course not, they're too naive.

 

[Jazz]

lander: really - a leading statement? Okay, fine, please tell me exactly how you would have reported the discovery of such a site, which it turns out actually WAS such a site but was no longer active, meaning the troops on the ground who reported it as a potential site could not verify it was. Or is your contention that one should never report anything as 'suspected' in any article about anything whatsoever until absolute proof is obtained?

 

[SAFETANA]

STOP fighting with the posters god dammit!

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MY BIGGEST LIES:
1- I love you!
2- The check is in the mail!
3- I wont cum in your mouth!

 

get a grip, the US is not going to go public until they've won the war. there's an out side chance Saddam will not use the chemicals. if we shame him with the discovery the lies are over. i'm sure the 3000 chemical suits were business wear.

"Walter Williams is my hero" outandup 2002

 

[D2bets]

The bottomline is that we'll have to wait and see what we find. That's all there is to it. I sincerely hope they are not used but that we do find them...because hiding WMD's was the only possibly legit justification for this war. Freeing the Iraqi people, etc etc was simply not a valid reason. I mean if that's the real justification then we've got about 8 to 10 more stops to make on this evil dictatorship cleansing mission. This is not a road we want to go down, however noble it may be.

 

[Jazz]

"The bottomline is that we'll have to wait and see what we find. That's all there is to it."

I agree, though one can see that the atropine injectors (VX nerge gas antidote) and chemical suits and masks found in that hospital with the 170+ Iraqi troops is a 'find' worth paying attention to. Not to mention the APPARENT reports of Cipro being found on some of these troops, an anthrax antibiotic.

 

[D2bets]

Yeah, but it sounds like both of those items are antidotes not the actual weapons. I'm not saying it is the case, but just having those things could be just as consistent with formerly having chem weapons that have since been destroyed as they claimed. In such a case I would think you'd still keep antitodes and masks like I'm sure (and hope!) the U.S. has. I think this is less likely than the alternative, but it is possible.

 

[KillerWatermelon]

Freeing the Iraqi people, etc etc was simply not a valid reason

I agree in principle, but I think it depends on where the country is located and if that region is vital to our national interest.

An Arab country such as Iraq is much more problematic for the U.S. than say Cameroon. Even if we do not find WMD's I think this action is worthwhile. If we can liberate Iraq and set up some semblance of a representive government, we have a chance of easing future terrorist threats. And there is also the chance of Democratic values spreading to other Arab nations. We will also protect the free flow of oil at market prices (yes, I will say it, oil is one of the reasons for this war). Finally, we can offer the average Iraqi a better future, and stop the madness of Saddam.

And there are many Iraqi’s who are for this action, particularly the expatriate Iraqi groups: http://209.50.251.188/p_en/statements/archives/00000022.htm

Unfortunately, I’m not convinced the Bush crowd is the right crowd to accomplish all of this. In fact, I’m certain they will screw it up (and their plan to date, isn’t quite living up to their promises).

 

[D2bets]

Waging war to replace a regime/govt simply because it is better for out national interest just doesn't cut the mustard. That type of policy would just give the green light to countries all over the wordl to take out their neighbors because it's better for them. It doesn't work that way. Lots of countries may benefit from liberation and a better form of government but that's not a justification for war. And as for democracy, yeah it's the best but it's not something you can shove down everybody's throats. What makes us think that they will want it? You can't force it. There are human rights violations all over the globe, the U.S. is simply not equipped or responsible to be the world's policeman and I hope that tis war is not set up to send us down that road. We should try to promote human rights but not via waging war. It's not practical or sensible.

 

[Jazz]

"Waging war to replace a regime/govt simply because it is better for out national interest just doesn't cut the mustard."

Did you mean mustard gas?

Anyhow, I know you were responding to the post above, but we went to war not to replace his regime as the triggering reason, but to get rid of his WMDS. Had he complied with disarmament, there would been no war, no regime change and no liberation of Iraqis. That's a fact. Saddam would still be putting innocent civilians in shredders and we would have done NOTHING about it. Anyone thinking otherwise, you're deluding yourselves. The U.S. in fact is not racing around the globe to free the oppressed willy-nilly - there was a reason here due to the threat to our national security, whether you think it's illusionary or not.

But, now that we're there, it would be the worst stupidity not to take out that butchering regime for good, as it's the only hope of allowing those people to develop a society that doesn't embrace Stalinist horrors and terrorizes and kills its own people to keep power.

 

[D2bets]

Like I said, I hope that's the case. That is the only justification for that war that is reasonable. Of course it would have been nice to see ahead of time concrete proof that he had WMD's that were not being destroyed. So at the end of the day if we don't find WMD's then our entire sufficient justification for the war will have been non-existent. That would be a major OOPS!

 

[Jazz]

Saddam committed the major OOPS by not disarming and providing proof that the weapons the UN itself know for a literal, undeniable fact he had were indeed destroyed, and in fact claiming to have destroyed them all with no one there to verify it. I'm sorry, but if it looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit, it's probably shit.

 

[D2bets]

If it tastes like shit one should choose another item off the menu.

P.S. Jazz - you might want to cheque your email.

 

[Jazz]

D2 - too late for me on that email - but no worries on the 'shit' issue, I hired an out-of-work French vintner who did those tests for me - man, what a nose!