<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> He absolutely and completely ruined the integrity of the game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As many players are doing today & before, just not caught in their deeds.
Pete Rose deserves the Hall of Fame & the right to manage if he chooses.
Which players said F*** the fans & let's strike? Pete would not have been for that. He would have wanted to play for the fans I think.
As many players are doing today & before, just not caught in their deeds.
Pete Rose deserves the Hall of Fame & the right to manage if he chooses.
Which players said F*** the fans & let's strike? Pete would not have been for that. He would have wanted to play for the fans I think.
General --
I don't begrudge the players for having a 'f*ck the fans' attitude.
Yes, that sucks, because we fans care about our teams and favorite players passionately, and in a way, it's insulting that they don't reciprocate the 'relationship', as it were.
But you know what? That 'relationship' is nothing more than our own creations, a figment of our own imagination. The players are, for the most part, men who grew up from either poor urban areas or poor parts of the third world. Suddenly, for simply being blessed with extraordinary physical abilities that they do little to cultivate (particularly in baseball), they're granted gagillions of dollars to play a game for a living, instead of hauling garbage or working in quickie-marts or dealing drugs or whatever else they would be stuck doing if they couldn't get out of the inner city/third world.
Do they 'owe' anything to the fans? For all of the attention we shower on them, and the fact that they can only draw the exorbitant salaries they do because we're willing to pay hefty ticket prices, we'd like to believe so. But in fact, they don't. They don't play for the fans. They don't play for the game. They play for their obscene checks they pocket every two weeks. And you know what I say to that? All power to em. They have a gift, a gift that is exploitable for only 10-20 years at most, and they should try to milk that gift for every penny they can. I would, if I had that talent. Hell, if I had an extraordinary talent for milking goats, to the extent that people were willing to pay me $20 mil a year to do it, I would, even if I didn't give a rat's ass about goat ass (pardon the animal puns).
A player not having allegiance to fans, or even not particularly liking the game of baseball, is not grounds for denial of admission to the Hall. The Hall of Fame exists to honor one thing: extraordinary work on a baseball diamond. That's it. It ain't about how much love they have for the game, or how committed they are to contributing to the BAT program, or how effectively they teach other kids to catch fly balls with milk crates. The Hall is to honor their success on the field.
Pete Rose had arguably more success on the field than anyone else. But the immense disgrace that he caused to the game, the complete ruination of its integrity, and the audacity to lie about it for so long completely and totally mitigates anything he might have achieved between the lines as a player. Moreover, the very fact that he WAS such an accomplished player, the fact that he was conscious of all the records you broke, the fact that he did have so much knowledge of the history of the game, that he did profess to have such 'love and respect for the game' makes his despicable act all the more heinous.
I love baseball more than any other game or sport. I hate MLB for creating a situation in which there is such a gross disparity between the haves and the have-nots, the fact that two-thirds of the teams go into the season knowing they have zero shot at winning the World Series (and what's worse, knowing that they'll have no shot to win the Series next year or the year after that, for that matter), and for doing virtually nothing to remedy the problem. The League can redeem itself a tad in my eyes IF, and only IF, they have the balls to stand up to this Pete Rose travesty and announce unequivocally that he will never, ever be in the Hall of Fame, and never set foot in a baseball stadium as a manager or general manager again. That would restore a modicum of dignity to the league.
Anything less than that, and I'm passing around a petition for a baseball version of the CFL.
I don't begrudge the players for having a 'f*ck the fans' attitude.
Yes, that sucks, because we fans care about our teams and favorite players passionately, and in a way, it's insulting that they don't reciprocate the 'relationship', as it were.
But you know what? That 'relationship' is nothing more than our own creations, a figment of our own imagination. The players are, for the most part, men who grew up from either poor urban areas or poor parts of the third world. Suddenly, for simply being blessed with extraordinary physical abilities that they do little to cultivate (particularly in baseball), they're granted gagillions of dollars to play a game for a living, instead of hauling garbage or working in quickie-marts or dealing drugs or whatever else they would be stuck doing if they couldn't get out of the inner city/third world.
Do they 'owe' anything to the fans? For all of the attention we shower on them, and the fact that they can only draw the exorbitant salaries they do because we're willing to pay hefty ticket prices, we'd like to believe so. But in fact, they don't. They don't play for the fans. They don't play for the game. They play for their obscene checks they pocket every two weeks. And you know what I say to that? All power to em. They have a gift, a gift that is exploitable for only 10-20 years at most, and they should try to milk that gift for every penny they can. I would, if I had that talent. Hell, if I had an extraordinary talent for milking goats, to the extent that people were willing to pay me $20 mil a year to do it, I would, even if I didn't give a rat's ass about goat ass (pardon the animal puns).
A player not having allegiance to fans, or even not particularly liking the game of baseball, is not grounds for denial of admission to the Hall. The Hall of Fame exists to honor one thing: extraordinary work on a baseball diamond. That's it. It ain't about how much love they have for the game, or how committed they are to contributing to the BAT program, or how effectively they teach other kids to catch fly balls with milk crates. The Hall is to honor their success on the field.
Pete Rose had arguably more success on the field than anyone else. But the immense disgrace that he caused to the game, the complete ruination of its integrity, and the audacity to lie about it for so long completely and totally mitigates anything he might have achieved between the lines as a player. Moreover, the very fact that he WAS such an accomplished player, the fact that he was conscious of all the records you broke, the fact that he did have so much knowledge of the history of the game, that he did profess to have such 'love and respect for the game' makes his despicable act all the more heinous.
I love baseball more than any other game or sport. I hate MLB for creating a situation in which there is such a gross disparity between the haves and the have-nots, the fact that two-thirds of the teams go into the season knowing they have zero shot at winning the World Series (and what's worse, knowing that they'll have no shot to win the Series next year or the year after that, for that matter), and for doing virtually nothing to remedy the problem. The League can redeem itself a tad in my eyes IF, and only IF, they have the balls to stand up to this Pete Rose travesty and announce unequivocally that he will never, ever be in the Hall of Fame, and never set foot in a baseball stadium as a manager or general manager again. That would restore a modicum of dignity to the league.
Anything less than that, and I'm passing around a petition for a baseball version of the CFL.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The League can redeem itself a tad in my eyes IF, and only IF, they have the balls to stand up to this Pete Rose travesty and announce unequivocally that he will never, ever be in the Hall of Fame, and never set foot in a baseball stadium as a manager or general manager again. That would restore a modicum of dignity to the league.
Anything less than that, and I'm passing around a petition for a baseball version of the CFL. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Baseball needs Pete Rose.
Anything less than that, and I'm passing around a petition for a baseball version of the CFL. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Baseball needs Pete Rose.
General, are you just trying to incite posts with "Railbird style" posts?
Rose is the biggest black eye baseball has ever had. HE BET HIS OWN GAMES WHERE HE MANAGED ONE OF THE TEAMS....
Please tell me you are just trying to incite posts, and are not really this ignorant.
[This message was edited by TTinCO on January 05, 2004 at 11:35 PM.]
Rose is the biggest black eye baseball has ever had. HE BET HIS OWN GAMES WHERE HE MANAGED ONE OF THE TEAMS....
Please tell me you are just trying to incite posts, and are not really this ignorant.
[This message was edited by TTinCO on January 05, 2004 at 11:35 PM.]
General,
Don't think you fall into the ignorant group but do think that of all people with your background in USMC you would understand.
When you joined the Corps you gave up your opportunities to grow your hair long, smoke dope and bang your buddy's wife from work. Not saying you would do those things, but you understood those were against the rules and could get you discharged accordingly for harm to the morale and integrity of that organization.
Rose was free to do all of those - what he wasn't free to do was bet on baseball including his own team and subsequently lie about it. He violated the ethics of his particular profession and paid the price.
BTW, minor argument - even now he is being disengenuous as he said he never bet against the Reds, but only bet for 'em on select occasions (which is even being disputed). Say it's true - if you were in the know and saw Rose wasn't laying down on the Reds that day, don't you think that you might be more inclined to bet on the opponent knowing that if Rose failed to get down on his own team like he did in the past, it might signify something.
Screw him.
Don't think you fall into the ignorant group but do think that of all people with your background in USMC you would understand.
When you joined the Corps you gave up your opportunities to grow your hair long, smoke dope and bang your buddy's wife from work. Not saying you would do those things, but you understood those were against the rules and could get you discharged accordingly for harm to the morale and integrity of that organization.
Rose was free to do all of those - what he wasn't free to do was bet on baseball including his own team and subsequently lie about it. He violated the ethics of his particular profession and paid the price.
BTW, minor argument - even now he is being disengenuous as he said he never bet against the Reds, but only bet for 'em on select occasions (which is even being disputed). Say it's true - if you were in the know and saw Rose wasn't laying down on the Reds that day, don't you think that you might be more inclined to bet on the opponent knowing that if Rose failed to get down on his own team like he did in the past, it might signify something.
Screw him.
Pete seems to have a hard enough time figuring out "his" story!
And public acceptance will decline after this latest stunt Rose pulled...Its a shame he is exploiting the HOF induction and his finally admitting he bet ... Its not an accident he picked this time to admit this and release a book, already the supposed public stats have declined (down to 60%) funny how no one here really supports Rose, accept General Pete...I to wonder why the military man is so accepting of him? Why hasn`t wilheim sounded off on this?
And public acceptance will decline after this latest stunt Rose pulled...Its a shame he is exploiting the HOF induction and his finally admitting he bet ... Its not an accident he picked this time to admit this and release a book, already the supposed public stats have declined (down to 60%) funny how no one here really supports Rose, accept General Pete...I to wonder why the military man is so accepting of him? Why hasn`t wilheim sounded off on this?
he should be allowed in as he should have all this time but there is no ****ign way he should be allowed to manage
nad this crap about the haves and have nots is a myth
im sure we all bet on the marlins and angels to win it all the last 2 years
Not to mention that in 2001(or2002) it was the 1st year ever where no team won more than 60% of its games and no team lost more than 40%
By the way guess who had the highest payroll in the al central this year?
Give up?
The Tigers
nad this crap about the haves and have nots is a myth
im sure we all bet on the marlins and angels to win it all the last 2 years
Not to mention that in 2001(or2002) it was the 1st year ever where no team won more than 60% of its games and no team lost more than 40%
By the way guess who had the highest payroll in the al central this year?
Give up?
The Tigers
Boxers, UFC guys and Tennis players are allowed to bet on themselfs, its not a big deal. Baseball is a greed buisness with selective morality. Steroids, Tobacco, adultery and over charging fans is ok, but dont bet on your own team to win the game. The sport is a complete joke, I call it "The American past its time"
I cant't defend what Pete did by gambling, but he has paid the price. Time now to forgive. Compared to the strike allowed by the players and the steroid incidents, his problem is not that bad and like Bobby Knight to CBK, Pete brought more good to baseball than bad.
Let's get him in the Hall & then worry about managing.
Let's get him in the Hall & then worry about managing.
Oct. 24, 1999: At a ceremony honoring baseball's All-Century team before Game 2 of the World Series, Commissioner Bud Selig allows Rose to appear in the ballpark. Rose receives the longest ovation of any player.
None of this matters now.
What matters is what kind of numbers did you put up on the field? Pete has them.
None of this matters now.
What matters is what kind of numbers did you put up on the field? Pete has them.
Given the chance 14 years ago to admit he had bet on baseball games, Pete Rose lied to baseball's commissioner. He says now in his book -- My Prison Without Bars, due out Thursday -- that he did so because he didn't have anyone to confess to who could help him.
"I should have had the opportunity to get help,'' he writes in the book, excerpted this week in Sports Illustrated, "but baseball had no fancy rehab for gamblers like they do for drug addicts.''
This could be the next part of Rose's legacy: an analysis of what Major League Baseball does for compulsive gamblers.
"If he would have come forth and said he had a gambling problem, we'd have helped him,'' former commissioner Fay Vincent said Monday on WSCR-AM.
But compulsive gambling expert Arnie Wexler agrees with Rose that baseball isn't doing its part. Wexler, who has spoken with several professional athletes and given clinics at colleges, said the gambling problem in sports is serious and not limited to Rose.
"They know it,'' he said of baseball officials, "but they have their heads in the sand. It's very prevalent.''
Wexler said one major professional league hired him to go from team to team and discuss the seriousness of gambling. He would conduct a survey of the athletes, but that league wanted to see the questions in advance.
"We were dumb enough to give them the questions,'' he said. "And then the president of the league said, 'No way.'''
That president was afraid word would get to reporters that the league was worried about gambling.
Wexler said baseball and other sports need to treat gambling as a sickness and not a crime. But they are so afraid of public response to the possibility that games are being thrown by gamblers that they try to hide the problem. In the end, he said, that only leads to more gambling problems.
"The league is addicted to gambling itself because they don't understand the addiction,'' he said. "What they need to do is give real education to what this addiction is all about. They need to address the issue, and if they're smart, they'll send Rose to a treatment center.''
www.suntimes.com
"I should have had the opportunity to get help,'' he writes in the book, excerpted this week in Sports Illustrated, "but baseball had no fancy rehab for gamblers like they do for drug addicts.''
This could be the next part of Rose's legacy: an analysis of what Major League Baseball does for compulsive gamblers.
"If he would have come forth and said he had a gambling problem, we'd have helped him,'' former commissioner Fay Vincent said Monday on WSCR-AM.
But compulsive gambling expert Arnie Wexler agrees with Rose that baseball isn't doing its part. Wexler, who has spoken with several professional athletes and given clinics at colleges, said the gambling problem in sports is serious and not limited to Rose.
"They know it,'' he said of baseball officials, "but they have their heads in the sand. It's very prevalent.''
Wexler said one major professional league hired him to go from team to team and discuss the seriousness of gambling. He would conduct a survey of the athletes, but that league wanted to see the questions in advance.
"We were dumb enough to give them the questions,'' he said. "And then the president of the league said, 'No way.'''
That president was afraid word would get to reporters that the league was worried about gambling.
Wexler said baseball and other sports need to treat gambling as a sickness and not a crime. But they are so afraid of public response to the possibility that games are being thrown by gamblers that they try to hide the problem. In the end, he said, that only leads to more gambling problems.
"The league is addicted to gambling itself because they don't understand the addiction,'' he said. "What they need to do is give real education to what this addiction is all about. They need to address the issue, and if they're smart, they'll send Rose to a treatment center.''
www.suntimes.com
