Rio betting with Player funds?????????????????????????????????

[PatrickMcIrish]

Minnow - I don't know I used the word extortion in any of this. The point is no matter what Rio does Russ will not get off their ass (other than advertising over there again). Almost everyone other than you apparently understands this. I can't believe ownership is now a hot item with Russ, LOL. Do you remember the Camelot story? If not go look it up. I know you guys are big on identifying who the real owners of these books are.

Let me give you an example too of how Rio can't win. It was not long ago when I read Russ was bashing them about cold calling. Several thoughts of what if a book was short on cash, would that be why they are cold calling? Anything to spread a seed of doubt. Recently I think they have went ahead and got rid of the rest of the crew who did that. Based in large part to the reaction of the forums they decided to do away with that stuff. Now according to Russ it is still a bad sign because Rio is in danger as they are laying off employees. LOL. No matter what they do it will be bash city with him. I know you have to defend this behavior regardless of if you believe it or not but at least be aware of what is going on. Just for your personal use if you do gamble. Rio is just as strong today as they were when they advertised with you and Russ was gushing about how solid they were. Only thing missing is the check for Russ's back pocket.

Do me a favor, ask Spiro tonight in chat what he thinks of Rio. I know what he thinks, so does Russ. As I said I doubt the real truth is the issue here but in case you really don't know this is nothing more than a witchhunt about an advertiser who moved on. I believe that with all my heart Minnow. BTW what's going on with BoDog? I haven't heard much lately over there on how "dangerous" of a book they are. Did they settle that figure Russ wanted? Seems awful quiet of late.....

 

[BillDozer]

D2
Well think of the rate of return you could have if you weren't paying interest becasue it was your own money.

I know all about good debt/bad debt but this isn't about buying property on a loan so you can rent it out for a higher return. Its about having to borrow out of necessity because you can't pay for something otherwise.

This isnt like US finances where trusts are guarenteed on an interest rate. My perception is Peter is borrowig to pay Paul.

I very well could be wrong. Maybe Rio has a kick ass line of credit which would be great.

 

[Siggy]

"Does it betray a reckless nature, or does it portray one? Just askin'."

Betray:
To make known unintentionally: Her hollow laugh betrayed her contempt for the idea.

You tell me.

 

[ballsofblue]

i think an important thing to keep in mind is that these players they paid with borrowed money were credit players.

To pay these players they did not dip into post up money, which they could have and no one would have ever known. it has been said that bluemarlin although having a square base had some sharp credit players. when these credit players won they were paid in post up money leaving them underfunded to pay their postup players

that is a huge difference.

"I know all about good debt/bad debt but this isn't about buying property on a loan so you can rent it out for a higher return. Its about having to borrow out of necessity because you can't pay for something otherwise."

this is about being a solid operation that wants to and will be in business for a very long time. rio did not put their post up business in jeopardy to pay these credit players. they simply went out and got the money to pay them.

is it a good idea to borrow money to pay any players? it depends on the book. for rio they know they have a good business model, they know they are profitable, and they know that they can pay back the loans.

 

[BillDozer]

good post blue balls

 

[BuzzRavanaugh]

So what if Rio is betting with player funds. As long as they are paying everyone on time and on demand who cares.


Doesn't Pinnacle bet with players funds?

 

Pat, Ken used the word "extortion".. my first post was addressed to him.

I think it might have been me who posted first about Skybook coldcalling. When Toledo finally laid off, a guy named Neil took over. Nevermind the breach of the unwritten "never talk to a woman" cold calling credo.. they knew my name and phone number. I emailed Ken about it twice, but never heard back. They finally did quit calling, so maybe he did ask them to stop on my behalf. Halifax asked the same question I asked. Rio had an entire department strictly for cold calling? And they waited til just now to "let them go"?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Rio is just as strong today as they were when they advertised with you and Russ was gushing about how solid they were.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry Patrick, I don't believe that, and a lot of other people don't believe it either. I honestly don't care who owns them on paper. But people are concerned about the debt they are accruing, and even if the owner bets more in a week than Majorbettings entire bankroll, well that really isn't very reassuring.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As I said I doubt the real truth is the issue here but in case you really don't know this is nothing more than a witchhunt about an advertiser who moved on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did not come here to pile on Rio, but to once again point out the fact that Russ NEVER said a negative thing about Rio until 6 or 7 months after they quit advertising at MW, and when he did, the reasons were valid.

As for the chat with Spiro, you or anyone else here are more than welcome to attend. We have guidelines when it comes to bookie chats though, and ask that participants abide by them. I'll be posting it after awhile, for anyone who is interested.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

I did not come here to pile on Rio, but to once again point out the fact that Russ NEVER said a negative thing about Rio until 6 or 7 months after they quit advertising at MW, and when he did, the reasons were valid.

Minnow, what is a valid reason to you? I'm just curious what your definition is. To pile on like this it is probably something none of your other advertisers are involved in. Again, if you want to know the truth about Rio why not ask Spiro what he thinks? I already know, I don't need a lesson in chat rules. Just trying to help you see the light if that is of interest to you. Maybe it's easier to carry out your role as fluffer (to use Lou's term) for Russ if you don't know what is truly going on. Russ would be unhappy of you to not support him so maybe it's better for you to believe there is trouble here. Easier for you to come over here and set us straight since you don't know any better? Not being ugly to you Minnow, just really curious why you don't want to ask people who would have good insight into this situation.

Let me ask you this Minnow. Can we take off our MW and RX hats and just use common sense for a minute? Russ (like us) has missed the boat on Camelot, Aces, NAB, SecureBux, Blue Marlin, Gamblers Avenue etc..... All the information Russ is privy to and he never saw one thing on any of this? Some of these relationships were quite close too, like sharing the same office with one of these books. In every case Russ and his sources were apparently completely blindsided. Now here we are with a book who has been going on for at least 3 years without a problem but in this case Russ is magically onto them. Wow! All those months and months of pocketing advertising checks from those other stiff books and he never saw anything? Yet now he is able to see quite clearly Rio is in severe trouble!!? LOL. Can you say with a straight face you genuinely believe that? Suddenly Russ has new and improved contacts in the case of this nonadvertiser? None of the industry big boys see anything here but your boss does? Maybe he was just warming up on all the other books who went down right underneath his nose. LOL. Knock it off Minnow, please. Even Russ knows when he is getting completely out of line with this foolishness. We do poorly on this stuff too so we aren't creating big scenes about a MW advertiser who is doomed to go down because they won't advertise with us. With our track record of late, just like yours, we understand our credibility on these issues is not exactly soaring. Only Russ and whatever sidekicks he can find would even attempt to jusitfy this smear attempt and portray themselves as knowledgable in this area. Think for yourself Minnow, if Ken does something I disagree with I just don't comment on it. Why go along with this when you have got to know better than this?

BTW I missed your answer on BoDog? Was reading all about them with pictures and everything else at your place not long ago, not hardly a word of late? Are players still in danger or did they pay that money with Russ? Probably just a coincidence if they paid it. Money is no object to Russ, he calls it the way he sees it. Enjoy your chat tonight Minnow.

[This message was edited by Patrick McIrish on November 18, 2003 at 05:34 PM.]

 

[THE SHRINK]

I need to clarify something regarding Cascade.

Cascade NEVER borrowed any money to my knowledge. Rather, they took on new investors, so that is a big difference.

However, my point was to emphasize that great books like CRIS and CASCADE have not always had it easy...

THE SHRINK

[This message was edited by THE SHRINK on November 18, 2003 at 06:35 PM.]

 

[Railbird]

Minnow,


I would appreciate if you would not make up lies about me doing western union scams. I use to like you before you became a puppet for Russ.

 

I don't know why you do this Patrick. I am posting in this one thread on this one subject and you feel compelled to bring up every point of contention you have ever had with me for a year?

My point- I took exemption to Ken calling us extortionists. You chose to reply. Did you search MW and find all of the malicious posts Russ made about Rio after they stopped advertising with us, or was it indeed, as I pointed out, 7 months later?

As for Bodog, not sure what your point is there, but yes, the advertising dispute was settled. bodog dispute settled
People may say what they want about Bodog, pro or con. What was the question?

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Minnow - trust me I am not bringing up every point of contention I have ever had with you? Not even close. I am speaking of nothing other than Rio right now and/or things directly related to that. I have to say I feel strongly on this that Russ does not know any more than I do about this. Nor do I think you do. I try not to speak on things I know nothing about, it's hard for me to sit back while your boss tries to ruin these guys when I know this is not right. He's working way too hard to only be worried about warning players of possible danger ahead. Come on! You can alert your readers without this total smear fest that he is involved in. After a while you can sort of see when Russ is warning players out of concern and when he is out for blood and it is a personal issue with him. He is out for blood here Minnow. He gets very nasty when it's an agenda, he remains halfway professional if it was a legit concern on a book. You can't see a difference huh?

I would gather most readers over there have long since noted his concern over Rio, what do you think? On top of this I feel that was an honest question in the last post I gave to you. Given what you know on his track record of books going down why do you think Russ has got to be right about Rio all of a sudden? Do you not recognize the fact all of these contacts he has have done nothing to save the posters from any of the books who have gone under? Why suddenly now he is due to hit a homerun? It's simple, he wants to punish this book and nothing or no one will stop him. You are here trying to jusitfy this? Here's his post from yesterday dragging other people's names into this war with Rio....

http://www.majorwager.com/fusetalk/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=75948


That's real appropriate huh? Yet you call me out for not sticking to the issues? As I told you over IM's this is another lie from Russ as well. Not that it is any business of his but I do not get paid by Rio. All the talk in this thread about who and how we get paid is not necessary anyway. Does Shrink go over to your site and address a thread to Grandfather, Total Square, Steve and you about who pays you? It's just that it is no one's business at all and is not a factor in any of this. There is talk here of tax evasion from a poster, and then to top it off Peep has to correct him about it. He is surprised that Russ quoted him out of context!! Are you kidding me? When Peep has to correct your boss on his own forum about an issue to do with the RX that tells you how far off base Russ is on all this. I know you can't say he's wrong but at least don't come over here and play the victim Minnow! These people didn't do anything to Russ and I am sure you are aware of that. The point is again, does this seem like a diligent site owner just tryng to warn posters about a book he is worried about? Or does this appear to be another case of a pissed of Russ trying to do all he can to make an enemy of his suffer? For God's sake bringing Angelle, Dante, Lander and all the other employees up into this? Yet to you this is perfectly fine, business as usual. You see nothing at all wrong with this, in fact you are over here to shove more of this shit down our throats.

Sorry Minnow, I like you for the most part but this is got to be the worst case of being a homer I have ever seen. It is hard for me to believe you can't see the difference between a concerned site owner and an enraged man who is out to put a hurting on a book. This is a personal vendetta now. When he gets like this anyone who disagrees with him or gets in his way at all is sucked in. He makes sure of it, to not be with him you are to be punished as well. The fact I did not agree with him has him starting threads about our pay and calling all of us liars. The fact he is dead wrong again is almost besides the point. Just like yesterday and the lie from him that our whole DOS thing is fake, that doesn't bother you either. After a wager was offered he slid away like all these shit starters do. You want to play the Russ is a hero stuff pick better topics than this one or pick a more gullible site. Some places you can just say the RX sucks and they will cheer for you until the cows come home, this is the new RX though. Bring more than "Russ is out to help posters on the Rio situation" take with you. I hear he may even be a good hearted guy but when he is angry no one matches this guy in cheap shots and out and out bullshit, I think you already know that. He knows this book is fine but will do all he can to "teach them a lesson" and make them pay for not being an advertiser.

In closing your last comment to me over IM's sums you up perfectly in all this. When I told you this whole pay thing was a complete lie and there was no reason to bring our folks into this, you had an excuse for him there too. "Well yes your employees have nothing to do with it but if Russ knew who the owners were he wouldn't have to do things like this". LOL. That's not an exact quote but damn close. I couldn't believe people like Dante and Angelle "deserved" to be brought up in all this but you saw it as our fault somehow. Russ needs to know the exact ownership and %'s of Rio or he is forced to go after the rest of the people here too? Would almost be funny if not so pathetic. Anyway we have beat this horse to death but keep this crap at your place if you don't want my opinion. I don't like the site war stuff but you are missing the boat if you think I will allow you to run over here and bash our people over this crap. Now our employees were mentioned by him and I don't like it, was no reason for it. No excuse for what he is doing or you being over here insisting he is justified by doing it. What an absolute joke this is....

 

[TheGeneral+]

Rio is fine. Russ is not to be trusted. Simply a case of hoping that his kind stop spilling this garbage.

 

[TheMajor+]

Patrick, I know you love me

Funny how you wrote this about 12 hours ago. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The RX is not interested in site wars. At times when a hot item comes up there may be some back and forth but we do not sit and plan how to attack other sites and the people who own them. When other forums engage in the "your mom is a whore and your dad is a drunk" talk we do not get involved. I believe there is no winners in that sort of stuff. You do not see Shrink or myself over at these anti-RX places starting threads trying to attack people's character, it's a waste of time in our opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

can I be the first to say,,,,,,,,u u u u BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Russ I would like you a lot more if you didn't send Minnow over to carry out your transparent agendas. And please no need to bring up our people and their pay like that? Why? What's the point of all that? You trying to scare a guy like Dante to death for something he knows nothing about?

If you have this top secret information on Rio stick with that, why is that hard to do? All this personal stuff about our people seem to show me you are more interested in flaming any and all Rio "supporters" rather than trying to save anyone from possible trouble. At least tell Minnow off the forum what is going on Russ, she's a nice lady who seems to think you are a saint or something. I hate to be around the day she realizes the truth.

 

[WEEKENDALKI]

McIrish, nice posts. I think it is quite blatant that Russ only cares about one thing--collecting money from sportsbooks that believe they should be on his site, and then are too afraid to leave once they find out they are unhappy. His intimidation tactics are the primary reason that many are afraid to move on. He is not one iota interested in helping his (50) readers, he is only interested in having enough money left over after expenses to pay his exorbitant hooker bills. Anyone who has seen him knows that he could never pull a "real girl" our of a burning building. lolol. The nice thing about the RX is that the vast majority of the readers are good people with an education well beyond eight grade. the fact that Russ has ANY following at all is because of the overall ignorance and gullibility of his few readers. Smart people know how to read between the lines. The General and McIrish have eloquently stated the facts. And the facts are that he only cares for himself with disregard for the entire industry. He is the National Inquirer of all gaming sites, and anyone with any intelligence figures it out quickly, and moves on. To those people who actually believe that he has one ounce of credibility, I am sorry for you. Good luck to all, and let's win all of our games this weekend! My top play is New Orleans plus 5.5 Fade me for all the Cash!