Rather than putting pressure on the businesspeople of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!

[ScottL]

Biden or Hillary will run. Hillary would run even if she couldn't walk! Michelle would probably win if she ran.

Dems probably opposed by Rubio who is doing a good job of distancing himself from Trump at this point.

Surprised you are not more confident about 2020. I'd bet Dem -125 right now if I didn't have to wait years to collect.

 

[SgtLanquel]

My personal HSO on Prez elections in 21st century is no one over age 60 can attract enough support to pull 271 EC votes.

Was foiled last year by combo of 69 year old HRC and 70 year old DT.....Pretty confident that's the last time.

A year ago might have given some credence to DW Schultz for 2020 but she chose to strongly hitch her wagon to HRC and that spells the end of her shot to win national election.


All Dems need is another charismatic and (truly) highly educated candidate age 46-55 and they pretty much steamroll whoever GOP selects to replace little donnie.

Rubio may well be that guy but pretty sure he cannot pull anywhere near 270.....would likely be a similar 320-215 type Final Score as we just witnessed, but inverted to Dems

 

[ScottL]

Sorry Scott, but to say that Trump is / was defending Neo Nazis is pure sham.

I didn't say that. What he did was compare those who stood against the Nazis with the Nazis. He also said there were "fine people" who stood alongside the Nazis. IMO most people agree Trump had a meltdown and went off the rails.

Trump loves Campbell's Soup. As I type the White House kitchen is overstocked with it. But the CEO of Campbell's just dumped him, along with many other business leaders. "Racism and murder are unequivocally reprehensible and are not morally equivalent to anything else that happened in Charlottesville. I believe the president should have been -- and still needs to be -- unambiguous on that point." ~ Denise Morrison, Campbell Soup Co.

 

[superbeets]

Sorry Scott, but to say that Trump is / was defending Neo Nazis is pure sham.

Lets look at what Trump said.




[FONT=&quot]The White House
Office of the Press Secretary

For Immediate Release

August 14, 2017​

[/FONT]
[h=1]Statement by President Trump[/h]
[FONT=&quot]

Diplomatic Room​

12:38 P.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. I’m in Washington today to meet with my economic team about trade policy and major tax cuts and reform. We are renegotiating trade deals and making them good for the American worker. And it's about time.

Our economy is now strong. The stock market continues to hit record highs, unemployment is at a 16-year low, and businesses are more optimistic than ever before. Companies are moving back to the United States and bringing many thousands of jobs with them. We have already created over one million jobs since I took office.

We will be discussing economic issues in greater detail later this afternoon, but, based on the events that took place over the weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia, I would like to provide the nation with an update on the ongoing federal response to the horrific attack and violence that was witnessed by everyone.
I just met with FBI Director Christopher Wray and Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The Department of Justice has opened a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that killed one innocent American and wounded 20 others.

To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend’s racist violence, you will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered.

As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.

And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.

Two days ago, a young American woman, Heather Heyer, was tragically killed. Her death fills us with grief, and we send her family our thoughts, our prayers, and our love.

We also mourn the two Virginia state troopers who died in service to their community, their commonwealth, and their country. Troopers Jay Cullen and Burke Bates exemplify the very best of America, and our hearts go out to their families, their friends, and every member of American law enforcement.

These three fallen Americans embody the goodness and decency of our nation. In times such as these, America has always shown its true character: responding to hate with love, division with unity, and violence with an unwavering resolve for justice.

As a candidate, I promised to restore law and order to our country, and our federal law enforcement agencies are following through on that pledge. We will spare no resource in fighting so that every American child can grow up free from violence and fear. We will defend and protect the sacred rights of all Americans, and we will work together so that every citizen in this blessed land is free to follow their dreams in their hearts, and to express the love and joy in their souls.

Thank you. God bless you. And God bless America. Thank you very much.

END
12:43 P.M. EDT



[/FONT]

 

[superbeets]

Sorry Scott, but to say that Trump is / was defending Neo Nazis is pure sham.

Full transcript: Donald Trump’s press conference



A full rush transcript of Trump’s remarks follows, beginning with the first question he was asked about making a statement on Charlottesville.


Trump: I didn't wait long. I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement.
The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement but you don't make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don't know the facts. It is a very, very important process to me. It is a very important statement. So I don't want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts.
If you go back to my statement, I brought it. I brought it. As I said, remember, saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. I went on from there. Here is the thing.
Excuse me. Take it nice and easy. Here is the thing.
When I make a statement, I like to be correct. I want the facts. This event just happened. A lot of the event didn't happen yet as we were speaking. This event just happened. Before I make a statement, I need the facts. I don't want to rush into a statement. So making the statement when I made it was excellent.
In fact, the young woman — who I hear is a fantastic young woman and it was on NBC, her mother wrote me and said through I guess Twitter, social media, the nicest things. I very much appreciated that. I hear she was a fine, really actually an incredible young woman. Her mother, on Twitter, thanked me for what I said. Honestly, if the press were not fake and if it was honest, the press would have said what I said was very nice. Unlike you and unlike the media, before I make a statement, I like to know the facts.
How about a couple of infrastructure questions.



Q: The CEO of Walmart said you missed a critical opportunity to help bring the country together. Did you?
Trump: Not at all. I think the country -- look, you take a look. I've created over 1 million jobs since I have been president. The country is booming. The stock market is setting records. We have the highest employment numbers we have ever had in the history of our country. We are doing record business. We have the highest levels of enthusiasm so the head of Walmart, who I know, a very nice guy, was making a political statement.
I would do it the same way, because I want to make sure when I make a statement that the statement is correct. There was no way of making a correct statement that early. I had to see the facts, unlike a lot of reporters. I didn't know David Duke was there. I wanted to see the facts. The facts, as they started coming out, were very well-stated. Everybody said his statement was beautiful. If he would have made it sooner, that would have been good.
I couldn't have made it sooner, because I didn't know all of the facts. Frankly, people still don't know all of the facts. It was very important -- excuse me, excuse me. It was very important to me to get the facts out and correctly. Because if I would have made a fast statement and the first statement was made without knowing much other than what we were seeing. The second statement was made with knowledge, with great knowledge. There are still things -- excuse me. There are still things that people don't know. I want to make a statement with knowledge. I want to know the facts.



Q: Was this terrorism? Can you tell us how you are feeling about Steve Bannon?
Trump: I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family and this country. You can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. There is a question. Is it murder? Is it terrorism? Then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. What he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing.


Q: Can you tell us how you are feeling about your chief strategist, Mr. Bannon?
Q: Steve Bannon --

Trump: I never spoke to Mr. Bannon about it.

Q: Can you tell us do you have confidence in Steve?

Trump: Look, look, I like Mr. Bannon. He is a friend of mine. Mr. Bannon came on very late. You know that. I went through 17 senators, governors and I won all the primaries. Mr. Bannon came on very much later than that. I like him. He is a good man. He is not a racist. I can tell you that. He is a good person. He actually gets a very unfair press in that regard. We'll see what happens with Mr. Bannon. He is a good person and I think the press treats him frankly very unfairly.

Q: They have called on you to defend your national security adviser H.R. McMaster against these attacks--
Trump: Senator McCain, you mean the one that voted against Obamacare? You mean senator McCain who voted against us getting good healthcare?

Q: Said that the alt-right is behind these attacks and he linked that same group to those that perpetrated the attack in Charlottesville.

Trump: I don't know. I can't tell you. I'm sure Senator McCain must know what he is talking about. When you say the alt right. You define it. Go ahead. Define it for me. Let's go.

Q: Senator McCain defined them as the same group.


Trump: What about the alt left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt right? Do they have any assemblage of guilt? What about the fact that they came charging with clubs in their hands swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do. That was a horrible, horrible day. Wait a minute. I'm not finished. I'm not finished, fake news. That was a horrible day. I will fell tell you something. I watched that very closely, much more closely than you people watched it. You had a group on one side that was bad. You had a group on the other side that was also very violent. Nobody wants to say that. I'll say it right now. You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.



Q: Do you think what you call the alt left is the same as neo-Nazis?

Trump: All of those people -- i've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups. Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.
You take a look at some of the groups and you see and you would know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases, you are not. Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop? You take a look. The night before. They were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.
Infrastructure question. Go ahead.


Q: Does the statue of Robert E. Lee stay up?

Trump: I would say that is up to a local town, community or the federal government, depending on where it is located.

Q: Do you think things have gotten worse or better since you took office with regard to race relationships?

Trump: They have been frayed for a long time. You can ask President Obama about that. He would make speeches about it. I believe that the fact that I brought in, it will be soon, millions of jobs, you see where companies are moving back into our countries. I think that's going to have a tremendous positive impact on race relations.
We have companies coming back into our country. We have two car companies that just announced. We have Foxconn in Wisconsin, just announced. We have many companies, I would say, pouring back into the country. I think that's going to have a huge positive impact on race relations.
You know why? It is jobs. What people want now, they want jobs. They want great jobs with good pay. When they have that, you watch how race relations will be. We are spending a lot of money on the inner cities. We are fixing the inner cities. We are doing far more than anybody has done with respect to the inner cities. It is a priority for me.

Q: Mr. President, are you putting what you are calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

Trump: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane. You had a group on one side and the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible. It was a horrible thing to watch. There is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You have just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. You can say what you want. That's the way it is.

Q: You said there was hatred and violence on both sides?

Trump: I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame object both on both sides. I have no doubt about it. You don't have doubt about it either. If you reported it accurately, you would say that the neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. Excuse me. They didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis. You had some very bad people in that group. You also had some very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.
George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me. Are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him. Good. Are we going to take down his statue. He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? It is fine. You are changing history and culture.
You had people and i'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists. They should be condemned totally. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. The press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

Q: You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly?

Trump: No, no. There were people in that rally. I looked the night before. If you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I am sure there were some bad ones.
The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. You had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest. I don't know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit.
So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country.
Does anybody have a final question? Do you have an infrastructure question?


Q: What makes you think you can get an infrastructure bill?

Trump: Well, we came very close with health care. Unfortunately, John McCain decided to vote against it at the last minute. You will have to ask him why he did that. We came very close to health care. We will end up getting health care. We will get the infrastructure. That is something I think we'll have bipartisan support on. I think democrats will go along with the infrastructure.

Q: Have you spoken to the family of the victim of the car attack?

Trump: No. I will be reaching out.

Q: When will you be reaching out?

Trump: I thought that the statement put out, the mother's statement, I thought was a beautiful statement. It was something that I really appreciated. I thought it was terrific. Under the kind of stress that she is under and the heartache she is under, I thought putting out that statement to me was really something I won't forget. Thank you all very much. Thank you.

 

[superbeets]

Sorry Scott, but to say that Trump is / was defending Neo Nazis is pure sham.

[h=3]DID THE LEFT COME ARMED?[/h]Trump's claim at the 15-minute question-and-answer in Trump Tower that leftists 'came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs' has some basis in reports of what happened in Charlottseville.



The Washington Post on Monday described the situation in Charlottesville on Friday night, at the statue of Thomas Jefferson on the lawn of UVA as around 250 white far-right protesters met a group of 30 counter-protesters - and that both sides were armed in some form.
'Within moments, there was chaos. Shoves. Punches. Both groups sprayed chemical irritants,' the paper reported.
The next day, it said, armed anti-right wing protesters were present in Emancipation Park from around 8.30am.
'Members of anti-fascist groups yelled at the rallygoers. Many of them also carried sticks and shields,' the paper said.



And the New York Times reported that not all the anti-far-right protesters were violent.


And the New York Times

It noted the presence of a group called Redneck Revolt, which had up to 20 people present carrying rifles and which describes itself as 'a pro-worker, anti-racist organization that focuses on working class liberation from the oppressive systems which dominate our lives' and claims to be inspired by John Brown, the anti-slavery rebel.

 

[superbeets]

Trump was correct to wait until he had the facts.

Obama got it wrong time after time when jumping in early tp make statements on Police shootings of blacks, of Black Lives Matter riots and other issues.


Trump was correct many were marching to protest the removal of the statues and those were not fascists or white supremacists.


The pro statue supporters had a permit to march. The anti march protesters did not and turned up with intent to stop a lawful march.


He was right there was violence on both sides.


Q: You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly?

Trump: No, no. There were people in that rally. I looked the night before. If you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I am sure there were some bad ones.

The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. You had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest. I don't know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit.


So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country.



Q: You said there was hatred and violence on both sides?

Trump: I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame object both on both sides. I have no doubt about it. You don't have doubt about it either. If you reported it accurately, you would say that the neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. Excuse me. They didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis. You had some very bad people in that group. You also had some very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me. Are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson?

You like him. Good. Are we going to take down his statue. He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? It is fine. You are changing history and culture.

You had people and i'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists. They should be condemned totally. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists.

The press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats.


You had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

 

[superbeets]

I didn't say that. What he did was compare those who stood against the Nazis with the Nazis. He also said there were "fine people" who stood alongside the Nazis. IMO most people agree Trump had a meltdown and went off the rails.

Trump loves Campbell's Soup. As I type the White House kitchen is overstocked with it. But the CEO of Campbell's just dumped him, along with many other business leaders. "Racism and murder are unequivocally reprehensible and are not morally equivalent to anything else that happened in Charlottesville. I believe the president should have been -- and still needs to be -- unambiguous on that point." ~ Denise Morrison, Campbell Soup Co.

Q: Mr. President, are you putting what you are calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

Trump: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane. You had a group on one side and the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible. It was a horrible thing to watch. There is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You have just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. You can say what you want. That's the way it is.




Q: Do you think what you call the alt left is the same as neo-Nazis?

Trump: All of those people -- i've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups. Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.
You take a look at some of the groups and you see and you would know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases, you are not. Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop? You take a look. The night before. They were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.

 

[superbeets]

We have a situation of mass hysteria were people are making statements without really any idea what Trump said. I abhor that.

 

[superbeets]

Bar I think we are witnessing the beginning of the collapse of Trump's presidency. But I fear I won't like the person that comes next in 2020 nearly as much as you.


"It would be great if they (all republicans) had that moral fortitude, but I think it is enough to say that there is no moral equivalence between neo-Nazis and those who would condemn them.
I thought what Richard was saying earlier was interesting, that business leaders were having to walk a fine line. I don't think it's a fine line. I think, actually, on this issue, it's a really easy decision. Donald Trump is on an island of his own.
This issue was settled 70 years ago by a global community. There's no one say (ph) for neo-Nazis themselves who defend neo-Nazis. So whether it's Republicans in leadership, business leaders, name another group, it's not a difficult thing to go out and say, and I don't see this equivalence." ~ S.E. Cupp

[FONT=&quot]All in all, the Germans deliberately killed about 11 million noncombatants, a figure that rises to more than 12 million if foreseeable deaths from deportation, hunger, and sentences in concentration camps are included.

For the Soviets during the Stalin period, the analogous figures are approximately six million and nine million.

These figures are of course subject to revision, but it is very unlikely that the consensus will change again as radically as it has since the opening of Eastern European archives in the 1990s.

Since the Germans killed chiefly in lands that later fell behind the Iron Curtain, access to Eastern European sources has been almost as important to our new understanding of Nazi Germany as it has been to research on the Soviet Union itself. (The Nazi regime killed approximately 165,000 German Jews.)[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Our wartime and postwar European alliances, after all, required a certain amount of moral and thus historical flexibility. In 1939 Germany and the Soviet Union were military allies. By the end of 1941, after the Germans had attacked the Soviet Union and Japan the United States, Moscow in effect had traded Berlin for Washington. By 1949, the alliances had switched again, with the United States and the Federal Republic of Germany together in NATO, facing off against the Soviet Union and its Eastern European allies, including the smaller German Democratic Republic. During the cold war, it was sometimes hard for Americans to see clearly the particular evils of Nazis and Soviets. Hitler had brought about a Holocaust: but Germans were now our allies. Stalin too had killed millions of people: but some of the worst episodes, taking place as they had before the war, had already been downplayed in wartime US propaganda, when we were on the same side.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We formed an alliance with Stalin right at the end of the most murderous years of Stalinism, and then allied with a West German state a few years after the Holocaust.

It was perhaps not surprising that in this intellectual environment a certain compromise position about the evils of Hitler and Stalin—that both, in effect, were worse—emerged and became the conventional wisdom.[/FONT]

 

[superbeets]

There is evil on the right and there is evil on the left.

Trump was correct violence on both sides.


Both were condemned by Trump and correctly but mass hysteria has resulted in tunnel vision.

 

[superbeets]

Not condemning one side empowers that side; they then believe it is their moral right to put down protests by the opposing side. No protesting group has the right to prevent another group protesting. There can only be one group that has that power and that is law enforcement. Otherwise you have anarchy.

 

[superbeets]

You can't assault people just because you hate what they are saying.

 

[roadreeler57]

Some of you sound ready to dump Trump over this......Just like the Jews lost faith in Moses.....You better keep the faith before you are proven wrong....

 

[ScottL]

SB there's an e-mail thread going on right now amongst my extended family about our history. I may have already mentioned here that Russian cosacks burned 11 of my grandmother's family (mother's side) in a barn when she was a small child. I recently found out that on my father's side, his grandmother was burned alive in her house by the nazis. His father snuck aboard a ship to America when he was 14. He sent his mother money to come here, but it's doubtful she ever received it.

So anyway, give me a little leeway if I tend not to rewarm personal feelings toward Russia and Germany as quickly as my country does.

 

[REDEYE]

The CEOs of corporate America made some resounding statements today about Trump's moral failure. So did Bush 41 and 43, as well as 5 of the joint chiefs of staff. It isn't just the 'fake news' now that's turning on him.

Bush 41 and 43 statements looked liked Trumps comments. condemned bigotry ..I'm confused..