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Put All Your Faith And Trust In the US Government. They Would NEVER Lie!!!!!!
- Thread starter Rattler+
- Start date
Other than my smartass comment I'll say that it's NOT illegal to photograph POW's for your own records. Just to display them publicly and officially. There were a lot of photos taken from various soldier's personal cameras that were leaked to the press.
Was this an official photo release? No it wasn't.
G. Bay detainees aren't POW's anyhow but that argument is too tired for me.
You know, that is John Walker who isn't even included in the G Bay group. He's an American citizen in an American federal prison. Hardly a POW. You can easily look up photos online of thousands of prison inmates. So now who's using propaganda???
Was this an official photo release? No it wasn't.
G. Bay detainees aren't POW's anyhow but that argument is too tired for me.
You know, that is John Walker who isn't even included in the G Bay group. He's an American citizen in an American federal prison. Hardly a POW. You can easily look up photos online of thousands of prison inmates. So now who's using propaganda???
I've seen hundred of faces of the surrendered Iraqi soldiers in the first few days.
Pure Hypocracy.
Pure Hypocracy.
Lander, you're driving me nuts man.
Do you know the difference between the free press and official state media?
It's not the US or UK governments that have been showing them. It's independent news organizaitons who happened to be in the same place at the same time they surrendered.
Have you seen any faces of Iraqi POW's actually in US custody, in the prison camps??
If you say yes, you had better post a pic to prove it. If you do I'll admit I'm wrong.
Do you know the difference between the free press and official state media?
It's not the US or UK governments that have been showing them. It's independent news organizaitons who happened to be in the same place at the same time they surrendered.
Have you seen any faces of Iraqi POW's actually in US custody, in the prison camps??
If you say yes, you had better post a pic to prove it. If you do I'll admit I'm wrong.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nanuk:
CNN _is_ the mouthpiece of the US government. (voice of James Earl James)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yawn. Give some EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE.
Christ you people are dense. Got anything other than your paranoid opinions?
Seriously, I'll admit I'm wrong. Just one photograph of Iraqi POW's faces while in a US POW camp. Just one. Not surrendering on the field, but in the actual camp.
CNN _is_ the mouthpiece of the US government. (voice of James Earl James)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yawn. Give some EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE.
Christ you people are dense. Got anything other than your paranoid opinions?
Seriously, I'll admit I'm wrong. Just one photograph of Iraqi POW's faces while in a US POW camp. Just one. Not surrendering on the field, but in the actual camp.
Governments would never lie...
A new game. Guess who made the following statements.
I didn't know about arms sales to Iran (now part of the axis of evil???!!)
I did not have improper sexual relations with that woman.
I am not a crook.
For Canadians...
We will scrap the GST
More money for health programs.
From the provinces....
Education is a priority
Healthcare is a priority
I knew nothing about the OPP actions on the Ipperwash reserve.
Reducing money to monitor water quality will not have any adverse effects.
A new game. Guess who made the following statements.
I didn't know about arms sales to Iran (now part of the axis of evil???!!)
I did not have improper sexual relations with that woman.
I am not a crook.
For Canadians...
We will scrap the GST
More money for health programs.
From the provinces....
Education is a priority
Healthcare is a priority
I knew nothing about the OPP actions on the Ipperwash reserve.
Reducing money to monitor water quality will not have any adverse effects.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nanuk:
Governments would never lie...
A new game. Guess who made the following statements.
I didn't know about arms sales to Iran (now part of the axis of evil???!!)
I did not have improper sexual relations with that woman.
I am not a crook.
For Canadians...
We will scrap the GST
More money for health programs.
From the provinces....
Education is a priority
Healthcare is a priority
I knew nothing about the OPP actions on the Ipperwash reserve.
Reducing money to monitor water quality will not have any adverse effects.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Still waiting for evidence of the particular issue we are discussing. I'm not going to write a textbook here on the history of world foreign policy. We are specifically talking about the issue of Iraqi POW's aand the Geneva Convention.
I'm sorry if I require evidence. You folks apparently are willing to believe anything.
Governments would never lie...
A new game. Guess who made the following statements.
I didn't know about arms sales to Iran (now part of the axis of evil???!!)
I did not have improper sexual relations with that woman.
I am not a crook.
For Canadians...
We will scrap the GST
More money for health programs.
From the provinces....
Education is a priority
Healthcare is a priority
I knew nothing about the OPP actions on the Ipperwash reserve.
Reducing money to monitor water quality will not have any adverse effects.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Still waiting for evidence of the particular issue we are discussing. I'm not going to write a textbook here on the history of world foreign policy. We are specifically talking about the issue of Iraqi POW's aand the Geneva Convention.
I'm sorry if I require evidence. You folks apparently are willing to believe anything.
"Do you know the difference between the free press and official state media? "
The major networks are getting the majority of their coverage from the "embedded" journalists. The embedded journalist are subject to rules set forth by the government as part of the agreement to allow the embedding. NOT exactly FREE press.
If you want FREE press check out www.democracynow.org ... they have unembedded journalists in Baghdad, but I would imagine that their info isn't "controlled" enough for your taste.
The major networks are getting the majority of their coverage from the "embedded" journalists. The embedded journalist are subject to rules set forth by the government as part of the agreement to allow the embedding. NOT exactly FREE press.
If you want FREE press check out www.democracynow.org ... they have unembedded journalists in Baghdad, but I would imagine that their info isn't "controlled" enough for your taste.
Has anyone noticed that after Rattler posted this picture of John Walker Lindh (I'm assuming) that he has not posted who took this picture, why, and who it was released by?
I did.
Lander: I used to actually contribute to 90.1 FM out here in Kansas City a few years back (community radio), until I actually listened to all their news features they run from 9am to noon. Democracynow is a big part of it. I'm not sure what you meant by 'free press', but they and that station have some of the most virulent views I've ever seen from any media source, consistently and unhesitantingly left wing. So their bias is no different than anyone else's - their point of view drives what they wish to present - they are not 'objective', which is a Holy Grail I've yet to see captured by anyone. It's great if you agree with them, it's not if you don't - when they sent me mailers the final year, I wrote back exactly why they wouldn't be seeing a dime of my money, and at least they had the courtesy to take me off their mailing list.
[This message was edited by Jazz on 03-26-03 at 11:52 PM.]
I did.
Lander: I used to actually contribute to 90.1 FM out here in Kansas City a few years back (community radio), until I actually listened to all their news features they run from 9am to noon. Democracynow is a big part of it. I'm not sure what you meant by 'free press', but they and that station have some of the most virulent views I've ever seen from any media source, consistently and unhesitantingly left wing. So their bias is no different than anyone else's - their point of view drives what they wish to present - they are not 'objective', which is a Holy Grail I've yet to see captured by anyone. It's great if you agree with them, it's not if you don't - when they sent me mailers the final year, I wrote back exactly why they wouldn't be seeing a dime of my money, and at least they had the courtesy to take me off their mailing list.
[This message was edited by Jazz on 03-26-03 at 11:52 PM.]
that is a very interesting web site lander i'm going to add it to my favorites for additional points of view and information, thanks.
Also think you should know that while the embedded journalists are subject to the rules set forth by the government, that is almost wholly for security reasons. The units they are hooked into do not need saddam to turn on his tv and hear the exact location of our troops, among other things. Just thought maybe that should be added.
BB
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
--Jules winnfield
Also think you should know that while the embedded journalists are subject to the rules set forth by the government, that is almost wholly for security reasons. The units they are hooked into do not need saddam to turn on his tv and hear the exact location of our troops, among other things. Just thought maybe that should be added.
BB
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
--Jules winnfield
Where's the evidence? Where is it?
One photo please. One photo. That's all I ask. One photogrpah of one Iraqi POW inside a US/UK prison camp.
Wouldn't that be sweet to put me in my place? Surely you have evidence if you feel so strongly about your position. I would hope so.
You just keeping dodging the question with new subjects. If you want to talk about CNN later, then fine but this thread is about the US supposedly violating the Geneva Convention. And to prove that, you need a photograph like I described.
One photo please. One photo. That's all I ask. One photogrpah of one Iraqi POW inside a US/UK prison camp.
Wouldn't that be sweet to put me in my place? Surely you have evidence if you feel so strongly about your position. I would hope so.
You just keeping dodging the question with new subjects. If you want to talk about CNN later, then fine but this thread is about the US supposedly violating the Geneva Convention. And to prove that, you need a photograph like I described.
Jazz,
They are indeed VERY lefty (way beyond my liking), but it's refreshing to actually get live interviews without worrying about what was subject to the "embedded" journalist rules.
Actually, they've handed most of their war coverage over to Pacifica Radio, but they're quite similiar.
BB,
Good points. I can't agrue that.
They are indeed VERY lefty (way beyond my liking), but it's refreshing to actually get live interviews without worrying about what was subject to the "embedded" journalist rules.
Actually, they've handed most of their war coverage over to Pacifica Radio, but they're quite similiar.
BB,
Good points. I can't agrue that.
More evidence of US war crimes in Afghanistan: Taliban POWs suffocated inside cargo containers
By Jerry White
13 December 2001
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author
Scores, if not hundreds, of Taliban prisoners of war suffocated to death inside metal cargo containers where they were imprisoned after surrendering to Northern Alliance and US forces in the Afghan city of Kunduz in late November. The Taliban prisoners, mostly foreign volunteers from Pakistan, died of asphyxiation and injuries inside the airtight shipping containers during a two or three day journey to a prison in the town of Sheberghan, according to a report in Tuesday’ s New York Times.
These horrific deaths occurred around the same time as hundreds of other Taliban POWs from Kunduz were being massacred by US and Northern Alliance forces at the prison fortress near Mazar-i-Sharif, and have been followed by reports of widespread killings of surrendering soldiers in the Kandahar area and elsewhere. Nothing more clearly exposes the barbaric and colonial character of the war in Afghanistan than the fact that the US and its proxy forces are openly and knowingly violating the Geneva Convention by carrying out the deliberate torture and extermination of non-Afghan Taliban prisoners.
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), mandated by the Geneva Convention to ensure the humane treatment of war prisoners, announced it would conduct an investigation into the deaths in the shipping containers. Macarena Aguilar, an ICRC spokeswoman said, “Our staff first visited the prison at Sheberghan on Monday, after pushing for 10 days to be allowed to do so.” Aguilar said many of the 3,000 prisoners there were in need of medical treatment and that ICRC workers had arranged for those needing surgery to be moved to a local hospital.
Journalists who had also been barred from the prison entered last Saturday and began interviewing prisoners, as well as the Northern Alliance commander in charge. Colonel General Jurabek said 43 prisoners had died inside the containers, while another 3 died from their wounds upon arrival. Several prisoners interviewed by the Times, however, said the number was much higher.
Omar, described by the newspaper as a “pale and slight youth,” said through the bars of his prison wing that all but seven people in his container died from lack of air. He estimated that more than 100 had died. Another Pakistani said 13 had died in his container and that survivors had taken turns to breathe through a hole in the metal wall.
One prisoner, Ibrahim, a 30-year-old Pakistani mechanic interviewed by the Times in the presence of General Jurabek, said he thought some 35 people died in his container en route from Kunduz. “No oxygen, no oxygen,” he said urgently in English. “The general corrected him and said only five or six had died,” the Times reported.
One witness, a local driver who declined to be interviewed but spoke to Afghan acquaintances, said he had seen soldiers unloading many dead bodies from a container by the road not far from Sheberghan. Three containers were lined up by the road in Dasht-i-Laili, and soldiers were unloading one container that was full of bodies, throwing them onto the ground, he said.
Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions prohibits “violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture,” of prisoners of war. Moreover Article 20 mandates that the “evacuation of prisoners of war shall always be effected humanely.” The same article requires that “the Detaining Power shall supply prisoners of war who are being evacuated with sufficient food and potable water, and with necessary clothing and medical attention” and “take all suitable precautions to ensure their safety during evacuation.”
The war crimes being carried out by the US are unprecedented for a country that claims to be democratic. The wanton slaughter of prisoners of war recalls the barbaric treatment meted out by the Nazis to Soviet soldiers on the Eastern Front and is conduct condemned as uncivilized for hundreds of years.
The US media, in keeping with its role as an uncritical propaganda arm of the Pentagon, largely ignored the atrocity in Sheberghan. A lone editorial in the Baltimore Sun urged “Washington to declare loud and clear that the Geneva Convention must be observed for all prisoners held by all parties in Afghanistan.” The editorial warned that failing to do so would undermine world opinion and “continued domestic support for the war effort, which includes the behavior of allies.”
By Jerry White
13 December 2001
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author
Scores, if not hundreds, of Taliban prisoners of war suffocated to death inside metal cargo containers where they were imprisoned after surrendering to Northern Alliance and US forces in the Afghan city of Kunduz in late November. The Taliban prisoners, mostly foreign volunteers from Pakistan, died of asphyxiation and injuries inside the airtight shipping containers during a two or three day journey to a prison in the town of Sheberghan, according to a report in Tuesday’ s New York Times.
These horrific deaths occurred around the same time as hundreds of other Taliban POWs from Kunduz were being massacred by US and Northern Alliance forces at the prison fortress near Mazar-i-Sharif, and have been followed by reports of widespread killings of surrendering soldiers in the Kandahar area and elsewhere. Nothing more clearly exposes the barbaric and colonial character of the war in Afghanistan than the fact that the US and its proxy forces are openly and knowingly violating the Geneva Convention by carrying out the deliberate torture and extermination of non-Afghan Taliban prisoners.
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), mandated by the Geneva Convention to ensure the humane treatment of war prisoners, announced it would conduct an investigation into the deaths in the shipping containers. Macarena Aguilar, an ICRC spokeswoman said, “Our staff first visited the prison at Sheberghan on Monday, after pushing for 10 days to be allowed to do so.” Aguilar said many of the 3,000 prisoners there were in need of medical treatment and that ICRC workers had arranged for those needing surgery to be moved to a local hospital.
Journalists who had also been barred from the prison entered last Saturday and began interviewing prisoners, as well as the Northern Alliance commander in charge. Colonel General Jurabek said 43 prisoners had died inside the containers, while another 3 died from their wounds upon arrival. Several prisoners interviewed by the Times, however, said the number was much higher.
Omar, described by the newspaper as a “pale and slight youth,” said through the bars of his prison wing that all but seven people in his container died from lack of air. He estimated that more than 100 had died. Another Pakistani said 13 had died in his container and that survivors had taken turns to breathe through a hole in the metal wall.
One prisoner, Ibrahim, a 30-year-old Pakistani mechanic interviewed by the Times in the presence of General Jurabek, said he thought some 35 people died in his container en route from Kunduz. “No oxygen, no oxygen,” he said urgently in English. “The general corrected him and said only five or six had died,” the Times reported.
One witness, a local driver who declined to be interviewed but spoke to Afghan acquaintances, said he had seen soldiers unloading many dead bodies from a container by the road not far from Sheberghan. Three containers were lined up by the road in Dasht-i-Laili, and soldiers were unloading one container that was full of bodies, throwing them onto the ground, he said.
Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions prohibits “violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture,” of prisoners of war. Moreover Article 20 mandates that the “evacuation of prisoners of war shall always be effected humanely.” The same article requires that “the Detaining Power shall supply prisoners of war who are being evacuated with sufficient food and potable water, and with necessary clothing and medical attention” and “take all suitable precautions to ensure their safety during evacuation.”
The war crimes being carried out by the US are unprecedented for a country that claims to be democratic. The wanton slaughter of prisoners of war recalls the barbaric treatment meted out by the Nazis to Soviet soldiers on the Eastern Front and is conduct condemned as uncivilized for hundreds of years.
The US media, in keeping with its role as an uncritical propaganda arm of the Pentagon, largely ignored the atrocity in Sheberghan. A lone editorial in the Baltimore Sun urged “Washington to declare loud and clear that the Geneva Convention must be observed for all prisoners held by all parties in Afghanistan.” The editorial warned that failing to do so would undermine world opinion and “continued domestic support for the war effort, which includes the behavior of allies.”
You guys all have your priorities seriously wrong!! Ok, so our government may ocasionally backfire on their words, but come on, this is our US soldiers that we are talking about. Most of you here are US citizens, act like it. Who gives a rats ass about the enemy. The taliban that suffocated in the containers rightfully deserved their deaths.
What about the passengers of the 3 airplane flights of 9/11?
What about people that had to jumb off of the buildings because there was no other way to escape?
What about the people that were burned alive from the fires?
What about the people that suffocated to death being burried alive under all the rubble?
I respect the Geneva Convention and all, but this was the enemy. Any one of those Taliban and Al-Queda whom were executed would take the role of the 9/11 hijackers in a heartbeat.
Now, I am currently living in D.C. and I recently went to the 9/11 memorial in the Smithsonian and I have to admit that it was extremely emotional. It clearly reminded me why we it is right for us to go and take out Saddam. Yes, maybe it has to do a little with oil, but Saddam is a threat and could do something to the US in the future.
I think that it is better to act before an atrocity occurs rather than try diplomatic means until another 9/11 or even Pearl Harbor occurs. Try Pres. Clinton's unsuccessfull strategy dealing with Bin Laden on Saddam. Or try the UN's unsuccessfull strategy with Bosnia and then allow Slobodam Milosevich commit massive genocide.
What about the passengers of the 3 airplane flights of 9/11?
What about people that had to jumb off of the buildings because there was no other way to escape?
What about the people that were burned alive from the fires?
What about the people that suffocated to death being burried alive under all the rubble?
I respect the Geneva Convention and all, but this was the enemy. Any one of those Taliban and Al-Queda whom were executed would take the role of the 9/11 hijackers in a heartbeat.
Now, I am currently living in D.C. and I recently went to the 9/11 memorial in the Smithsonian and I have to admit that it was extremely emotional. It clearly reminded me why we it is right for us to go and take out Saddam. Yes, maybe it has to do a little with oil, but Saddam is a threat and could do something to the US in the future.
I think that it is better to act before an atrocity occurs rather than try diplomatic means until another 9/11 or even Pearl Harbor occurs. Try Pres. Clinton's unsuccessfull strategy dealing with Bin Laden on Saddam. Or try the UN's unsuccessfull strategy with Bosnia and then allow Slobodam Milosevich commit massive genocide.
good post alex.
Who gives a rats ass about the enemy. The taliban that suffocated in the containers rightfully deserved their deaths.
mildly insane is a vast understatement.
the taliban who died were quite likely conscripts and had nothing to do with 911.
It clearly reminded me why we it is right for us to go and take out Saddam. Yes, maybe it has to do a little with oil, but Saddam is a threat and could do something to the US in the future.
despite near infinite attempts to tie iraq to alqueda the US has ignomoniously failed to do so. saddam was no more a threat to the US than half the countries of the world.
RPM it seems you are similarly brainwashed --- you would both fit in well in North Korea.
mildly insane is a vast understatement.
the taliban who died were quite likely conscripts and had nothing to do with 911.
It clearly reminded me why we it is right for us to go and take out Saddam. Yes, maybe it has to do a little with oil, but Saddam is a threat and could do something to the US in the future.
despite near infinite attempts to tie iraq to alqueda the US has ignomoniously failed to do so. saddam was no more a threat to the US than half the countries of the world.
RPM it seems you are similarly brainwashed --- you would both fit in well in North Korea.
"The same arrogance, and fundamentally the same racist and supremacist mindset that forever and always inspires the masters of the universe to believe their own hype and expect everyone else to be so gullible, unintelligent and child-like as to accept it too.
The same arrogance that allows us to believe that we and we alone have the right to dictate who will and will not have weapons of mass destruction; who will and will not have to follow United Nations resolutions; who will and will not be able to launch "preventative war."
The same arrogance that allows Donald Rumsfeld to shriek hysterically at the violations of the Geneva Conventions by the Iraqis for merely showing American POW's on film and thereby "humiliating them," ....
The same arrogance that ultimately explains the widespread hatred of the U.S. throughout much of the Arab and Muslim world."
from article posted by banned4life.
American POW's on film is a crime but suffocating taliban prisoners is Aok. some americans are truly ****ed up.
The same arrogance that allows us to believe that we and we alone have the right to dictate who will and will not have weapons of mass destruction; who will and will not have to follow United Nations resolutions; who will and will not be able to launch "preventative war."
The same arrogance that allows Donald Rumsfeld to shriek hysterically at the violations of the Geneva Conventions by the Iraqis for merely showing American POW's on film and thereby "humiliating them," ....
The same arrogance that ultimately explains the widespread hatred of the U.S. throughout much of the Arab and Muslim world."
from article posted by banned4life.
American POW's on film is a crime but suffocating taliban prisoners is Aok. some americans are truly ****ed up.
