Pinnacle Will Even take Over The Racing Market Now

entropy · Sep 28, 2003

Great points Beast, it would seem that Pinnacle has a hub it is dumping into

that would seem logical as i assume they could get more than 7% from the offshore hubs. i believe there is one on St Kitts but does anyone know how many??

could pinnacle have obtained a license themselves??

Whether the money you bet with them finds it's way back into the track parimutual pook will be decided on a wager by wager basis. They will SOMETIMES be laying off the wager, sometimes keeping it, depending on their own handicapping, the level of exposure, and how good they think the client is at horses. When they lay it off, with smaller parimutuals it will probably find it's way back into the parimutual pool, with larger parimutuals, it probably will NOT.

this is consistent ( though more detailed ) with what i was told before they opened.

i doubt they would trust anyone's handicapping so i think that one is a red herring.

if they are laying exotics anything of size should find its way back to the parimutuel pool.

GREENHEAD · Sep 28, 2003

yes the 7% bonus is great,but all the money bet goes into the pool.They are now pari-mutual.This will cost you alot more then 7%bonus that youll get.Trust me.

trytrytry · Sep 28, 2003

if you put in a wager 2 seconds before the race goes off how would they have time to blink let alone make a decision to lay it off???

GREENHEAD · Sep 28, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nick vlahos:
yes the 7% bonus is great,but all the money bet goes into the pool.They are now pari-mutual.This will cost you alot more then 7%bonus that youll get.Trust me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>.Because its just like your at the track at a window making a bet.If the race starts it wont accept your bet.

entropy · Sep 28, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nick vlahos:
yes the 7% bonus is great,but all the money bet goes into the pool.They are now pari-mutual.This will cost you alot more then 7%bonus that youll get.Trust me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i don't trust you at all. why would all the money go back into the pool ??? pinnacle can sort the winners from losers over time and feed back only what they need to.

GREENHEAD · Sep 28, 2003

If you dont want to beleive me fine.But I Know this for a fact.100%.IM OUT OF HERE.

entropy · Sep 28, 2003

This will cost you alot more then 7%bonus that youll get.Trust me.

maybe pinnacle would like to run a huge offshore parimtuel but without the gouging by the states their takeout would be much less. in fact pinnacle's whole style has been to deal in volume and try to beat out the competition with very low margins.

"i know this for a fact" 100% again inaccurate. what you think you know and fact are totally unrelated.

some sharps may lose from pinnacles move but i don't see how it can be other than a plus for the average punter.

note the big computer teams no doubt bet from offshore via the hubs ( or own the hubs ) so all this move does is move the public to something closer to an equal footing.

TheGeneral+ · Sep 28, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by nick vlahos:
yes the 7% bonus is great,but all the money bet goes into the pool.They are now pari-mutual.This will cost you alot more then 7%bonus that youll get.Trust me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Welcome to The Rx.com & good luck

aawied · Oct 9, 2003

I believe the money is going into the pools but what about taxes very strong for large handles not near as stong as other books that don,tgo in to small pools break even make money

aawied · Oct 9, 2003

the software is almostlike the sam machine does ayone know if they are going into the forsure on late bets no time to decide if to book or go the pools unless pre progamed one question if they are going into pools taxes???

peterx · Oct 9, 2003

Caliente Race Book is in the same building as Pinnacle. However, that Caliente doesn't pay track odds on all bet types, there are some payout limits including tri bets.

aawied · Oct 9, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Java:
sds-
Why is soccer such a low-volume sport for the books? NO AMERICANS WATCH IT!

The bars in the US are packed for football games. Most recreational bettors claim that a few bucks on the games make them more exciting to watch. They would probably would watch anyway, but the gambling intensifies it.

Americans don't go out of their way (or buy Direct TV) so they can watch horses, soccer, etc. You root for you home team. Who really roots for a horse (or buys horse collectables for their kids).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

aawied · Oct 10, 2003

The only question on my mind now if they are going into pools how are taxes handled and If they are not payoff for exotic bets that no one has in track pools how will this be paid had trouble getting bet last night saved $12.00

aawied · Oct 13, 2003

vaulted treehouse These sports bettors love that 11/10 you are right what is better than rebate and odds

valueman · Oct 13, 2003

Pinnacle's rebate system is aggresive marketing that is having the desired effect - squeezing other sports books. Questions we need to ask are:

1 - How temporary is this?
2 - What happens when they have enough of the market share?
3 - What choices will the bettor then have?

The answers to these in my mind are clear - that Pinnacle's sole intention is to dominate the market by squeezing the other sports books out and then screw the bettors as hard as they can.

That's why I'm sticking with Betfair - there 1-2% vig on horse racing + commision on winnings works out to about 3.5% total so that's better than Pinnacle anyway and that's here to stay not just a fly by night promotion to suck you in.

Sodium Pentethol V · Oct 13, 2003

Really think that 3.5% on WPS 12 entrants max is better than 7% rebates on gimmicks, trifectas in 12 horse field=1320 combinations?

The rest of your post is nothing more than bullshit conspiracy, innuendo, supposition.

Greater chance that the US tracks get Betfair to stop offering the races than Pinny doing away with the 7%(just like they did away with the reduced juice in sports?), but good try. Yea I wonder how long the Us racing industry, AKA a pseudo governement monopoly is going to allow more money to bet on an exchange than at their tracks, and do not for a second think they have no recourse.

Which soon to be doomed race book are you with?
Afterall who else would possibly concoct such a tale of market dominance and customer abuse, hasn't happened in sports and won't in racing, much to your and your employers chagrin.

valueman · Oct 13, 2003

I admitedly do all my horse race betting with betfair whose markets are as you correctly suggested very strong. My supposition that Pinnacle is trying to dominate the market is based on their strategy overall and is a very balanced and fair assessment given their strategy to date. Their offering is as you also suggested misleadingly good and much better offerings are available at betfair. Being a newcomer to North america you'll have to give me the website for WPS and i'll gladly check it out and compare to Betfair if you like.

Your argument that american racecourses will ban exchanges from betting on their events is so far in cuckoo land - i can't imagine how you thought of it. What could they possibly do? the whole world bets on Uk soccer, NFL, Cricket - are the premiership, NFL or ICC going to sue the world for betting on their product. I very much doubt if any one can do anything about it. Yes, the horse racing industry suffers but the bettors get a good deal so that's how the cookie crumbles my friend.

Sodium Pentethol V · Oct 14, 2003

Okay first WPS=Win, place or show betting.

Cuckoo cuckoo land, why is it I cannot bet at betfair, nor willhill or ladbrokes or centrebet for that matter.

It's called the long arm of the good Ole USA.

Racing is a $15billion dollar industry, that is run akin to some socialist experiment gone mad, in other words the government coffers are loaded on a daily basis thanks to racing in the USA. Do not for a second kid yourself and think that if they start to feel a pinch from some betting exchange that they do not have recourse. It's ludicrous and only a matter of time.

valueman · Oct 14, 2003

The reason you can't bet at those companies is the percieved threat and the fact that the companies listed are making very good money for investors/shareholders etc.

They do not see the need to take the risk in this FEAR of the "long arm of the good ole US" as you put it. Companies such as tradesports, bet365, sportingbet, canbet who are based out of the UK/Ireland are not so well established and therefore ARE taking the chance to gain some market share.
Of all the 1000's of sportsbooks that are here or have come and gone - how many have been prosecuted? Very few if any. There is a percieved threat of action that the bigger boys 'don't need" but that's all it is - PERCIEVED!