Obama calls for 'a world without' nuclear arms

Search

Rx Normal
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
52,402
Tokens
I can take naive but this is just another case to pile on the pres and take it out of context, like I said he's not apologizing he's trying bridge a gap, you guys are making this out to something it isn't

What gap? War is not sunshine and lollipops.

"Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans."

-- President Harry Truman


Typical libs - always trying to rewrite history to suit their radical agenda.
 

Rx Normal
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
52,402
Tokens
Here's some more historical context for ignorant Obama supporters:

The US fire-bombed 87 Japanese cities in the last six months of the war, AND STILL JAPAN WOULDN'T SURRENDER!

3365509023_f1fd596c20.jpg
 

Life's a bitch, then you die!
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
28,910
Tokens
I can take naive but this is just another case to pile on the pres and take it out of context, like I said he's not apologizing he's trying bridge a gap, you guys are making this out to something it isn't
Well gadzooks, how progressively Liberal of you.


If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.


If you like your health care plan, you can keep it.


I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year.


You should know that keeping the economy growing and making sure jobs are available is the first thing I think about when I wake up every morning. It’s the last thing I think about when I go to bed each night.


All taken out of context indeed.
 

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Messages
39,612
Tokens
[h=2][/h] "...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.
"During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."
- Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380
In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson:
"...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
- Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63
 

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
24,884
Tokens
[h=1]No Other Choice: Why Truman Dropped the Atomic Bomb on Japan[/h]Every summer, as the anniversaries of the U.S. nuclear strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki approach, Americans engage in the painful moral exercise of wondering whether President Harry Truman should have ordered the use of nuclear weapons (or as they were called at the time, the “special bombs”) against Japan in August 1945. And every year, as we get farther away in time from those horrible events, we wonder if we were wrong.

In 1945, Americans overwhelmingly supported the use of the bomb; seventy years later, that number is now a bare majority (some polls suggest less), with support for Truman’s decision concentrated among older people.

Truman, for his part, thought he was bringing the war to a swift close. Taken in its time, the decision was the right one. As historian David McCullough has been known to say, “people living ‘back then’ didn’t know they were living ‘back then’,” and to judge the decisions of people in 1945 by the standards of 2015 is not only ahistorical, it is pointless. Truman and his advisers made the only decision they could have made; indeed, considered in the context of World War II, it wasn’t really much of a decision at all.

There are three arguments usually marshalled against the use of the bomb in 1945. First, that to use the bomb only against Japan was racist; second, that it was pointless; and third, that it was done purely for political effect that had more to do with the Soviet Union than with the war in the Pacific. These objections make little sense when weighed against counterfactual thinking about American alternatives.

Was the use of nuclear bombs against Japan actually racism? Would Truman have used the bomb against the Germans? After all, America had a “Germany first” strategy from the very beginning of its involvement in the war, so why drop the bomb on Japan? Was American nuclear devastation reserved only for Asians but not Europeans?

It is difficult to believe that the Allies would have spared the Germans anything after turning the streets of German cities like Dresden to glass under repeated firebombing. The more obvious objection, however, is that the first atomic test took place in July 1945, two months after the Nazi surrender in May. There is some evidence that FDR’s advisers thought about using the bomb against Germany, but by the time Truman took office, it was a moot point: the Nazis were beaten and the invasion of Germany was winding down, not gearing up.

Truman’s detractors, in the absence of any evidence, merely claim that Truman would have done no such thing, especially at a time when so many Americans were of German descent. There is no arguing with this point, as I learned in the mid-1990s. At the time, I was teaching at Dartmouth College, where I had a chance encounter with a well-known historian on the subject. Truman’s papers had been unsealed in those years, and there was no evidence that Japan was singled out for any other reason than it was still fighting. (Indeed, the Americans specifically tried to seek out military targets rather than simply to butcher the Japanese.)

I asked this colleague what he thought of the new evidence. “I don’t care,” he said. For people who hold to the “it was about racism” theory, that’s about as far as you’re going to get.

But what about a stronger objection, that Truman should have realized that Japan was beaten? This is one of those arguments that assumes modern-day omniscience on the part of historical figures. The fact of the matter is that Japan was not preparing to surrender; it was preparing to fight to the death. The invasion of the Japanese home islands was not going to look like the invasion of Germany, where the Nazi armies were crushed between advancing U.S. and British forces on one side and an avalanche of enraged Soviet troops on the other. The Japanese invasion, on the other hand was likely to cost a half-million Allied and Japanese lives— all in what should have been the last months of the war.

Here, I will candidly admit that I am not objective about this question. In 1945, my father finished infantry school in Georgia and was immediately shipped to California to await his orders to carry a rifle during the invasion of Japan. Fortunately, as things turned out, he did nothing more than fight “the Battle of Fort Ord,” as my mother wryly called it. My father, for the remainder of his life, considered nuclear weapons to be an awful and inhumane instrument of war, but he was certain that they saved his own life.

Still, let’s assume, as some historians have done, that Harry Truman was either duped or made an honest mistake, and that the invasion casualty estimates were way off. (One historian has suggested that these estimates were ten times too high.) What should Truman have done? If the figure of 500,000 casualties was wrong, perhaps Truman would have been risking only—only—50,000 lives. But would even one more Allied death have been worth not dropping the bomb, in the minds of the president and his advisors, after six years of the worst fighting in the history of the human race?

Imagine if Truman had decided to hold back. The war ends, with yet more massive bloodshed, probably at some point in 1946. Truman at some point reveals the existence of the bomb, and the president of the United States explains to thousands of grieving parents and wounded veterans that he did not use it because he thought it was too horrible to drop on the enemy, even after a sneak attack, a global war, hundreds of thousands of Americans killed and wounded in two theaters, and years of ghastly firebombing. Seventy years later, we would likely be writing retrospectives on “the impeachment of Harry S. Truman.”

Finally, what about the argument, imbued (wrongly) in several generations of students of international relations, that Truman only dropped the bomb in order to impress the Soviets and establish U.S. dominance in the coming Cold War?

There’s no doubt that the Americans wanted the war over before the Soviets could enter Japan—ironically, something we ourselves had asked them to do when we thought we would have to invade. From the victory at Stalingrad in 1943 onward, U.S. leaders (at least those other than the sickly Roosevelt) realized that Stalin’s Soviet Union was not interested in a peaceful world order policed by the great powers. The Americans were in a hurry to force a Japanese surrender, but they had no way of knowing whether that surrender was imminent. Ward Wilson, for one, claims that the Japanese surrendered not because of the bomb but because of the Soviet entry into the Pacific war, but only the most cold-blooded president would have counted on this and held America’s greatest weapon in reserve.

Again, consider the counterfactual. For years after World War II, the Soviets charged that the nuclear attacks on Japan were a warning to the USSR. Imagine, however, a world in which America held back the bomb, and allowed the Soviets to fight their way through Japan, taking huge casualties along the way. The speeches Stalin and his successors would have given during the Cold War write themselves: “America allowed Soviet soldiers to spill their blood on the beaches of Japan, while Truman and his criminal gang protected the secret of their ultimate weapon. We shall never forget, nor forgive, this squandering of Soviet lives…”

In reality, of course, as soon as the bomb was tested, Truman told Stalin that America had a weapon of great power nearing completion. Stalin, well informed due to his spy networks inside the U.S. nuclear effort, knew exactly what Truman meant, and he told the U.S. president to make good use of this new addition to the Allied arsenal. Both leaders were being cagey, but it was really the only conversation these two men, leading huge armies against the Axis, could have had in 1945 that would have made any sense.

In the 1995 film Crimson Tide, Gene Hackman played a Navy captain whose views are no doubt how critics see American thinking about the decision to use nuclear weapons. “If someone asked me if we should bomb Japan,” he opines while enjoying cigar in the wardroom, “a simple ‘Yes.’ By all means, sir, drop that [expletive]. Twice.”

The actual decision to drop the bomb was not nearly as casual as “a simple yes.” Critics of the decision to use the “special bomb” in 1945 are judging men born in the 19th century by the standards of the 21st. Had Truman and his commanders shrunk from doing everything possible to force the war to its end, the American people would never have forgiven them. This judgment no doubt mattered more to these leaders than the disapproval of academic historians a half century later, and rightly so.

Nuclear arms are hideous, immoral weapons whose existence continues to threaten our civilization. To say, however, that Harry Truman should have sacrificed hundreds of thousands of American lives because of what happened in the nuclear arms race decades later is not only ahistorical, it is moral arrogance enabled from the safe distance provided by time and victory.

Tom Nichols is Professor of National Security Affairs at the Naval War College and an adjunct at the Harvard Extension School. His most recent book is No Use: Nuclear Weapons and U.S. National Security (University of Pennsylvania, 2014) The views expressed are his own.
 

Rx Normal
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
52,402
Tokens
Well over 100,000 troops killed, another 250,000 wounded and 20,000 abused POWs...but Japan was getting close to surrendering and dropping those nukes was like totally unnecessary! face)(*^%

Truman was a Democrat but thank God he wasn't a libtard.
 

Banned
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
15,948
Tokens
I don't know why you're quoting me. I didn't write anything about an apology. I only wrote about the bombs and the alternative.

"Context, Obama. Context. (God is he stupid!)"
And you called Obama stupid, which naturally fed into the nutcase and lying narrative that he apologized, when of course, he didn't. It was Stupid to call Obama stupid for anything he did in this scenario, and you should be better than the common lying, misleading trash down here who did so.
 

Rx Normal
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
52,402
Tokens
"Context, Obama. Context. (God is he stupid!)"
And you called Obama stupid, which naturally fed into the nutcase and lying narrative that he apologized, when of course, he didn't. It was Stupid to call Obama stupid for anything he did in this scenario, and you should be better than the common lying, misleading trash down here who did so.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Read his shameful remarks, dipshit.

I haven't witnessed that much craven grovelling since...

obama-bows-saudi-king.jpg
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
2,924
Tokens
Well gadzooks, how progressively Liberal of you.


If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.


If you like your health care plan, you can keep it.


I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year.


You should know that keeping the economy growing and making sure jobs are available is the first thing I think about when I wake up every morning. It’s the last thing I think about when I go to bed each night.


All taken out of context indeed.

If you have read my posts about his ACA, you will see that I have knocked him for presenting a plan that wasn't there. I still believe in the basis of Universal Health Care but I have knocked his plan once it came into play. I believe in some conservative values, I think the country is lacking good conservative and liberal politicians. In this case I have Obama's back.
 

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
24,884
Tokens
"Context, Obama. Context. (God is he stupid!)"
And you called Obama stupid, which naturally fed into the nutcase and lying narrative that he apologized, when of course, he didn't. It was Stupid to call Obama stupid for anything he did in this scenario, and you should be better than the common lying, misleading trash down here who did so.

Oh he's stupid alright. And nutcases will be so, regardless of me pointing that out. It doesn't matter if I feed them. They're never full!
 

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
78,682
Tokens
In a 1986 study, historian and journalist Edwin P. Hoyt nailed the "great myth, perpetuated by well-meaning people throughout the world," that "the atomic bomb caused the surrender of Japan." In Japan's War: The Great Pacific Conflict(p. 420), he explained:


The fact is that as far as the Japanese militarists were concerned, the atomic bomb was just another weapon.

The two atomic bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were icing on the cake, and did not do as much damage as the firebombings of Japanese cities.

The B-29 firebombing campaign had brought the destruction of 3,100,000 homes, leaving 15 million people homeless, and killing about a million of them. It was the ruthless firebombing, and Hirohito's realization that if necessary the Allies would completely destroy Japan and kill every Japanese to achieve "unconditional surrender" that persuaded him to the decision to end the war.

The atomic bomb is indeed a fearsome weapon, but it was not the cause of Japan's surrender, even though the myth persists even to this day.

 

Banned
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
15,948
Tokens
Oh he's stupid alright. And nutcases will be so, regardless of me pointing that out. It doesn't matter if I feed them. They're never full!
What was "stupid"about what he said and did in Japan? I understand your bias against him, but in this thread, the only thing stupid is the Lying Vermin that are claiming he apologized to Japan about the US dropping Nukes, when he did nothing of the sort, and your post added to that lying scenario, with your shot against him, when none was called for in this instance.
 

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
78,682
Tokens
While polls showed most Japanese welcomed Obama’s gesture, other countries in the region warned against allowing the visit to reinforce a one-dimensional view of Japan’s role in the second world war.


The Chinese foreign ministry said Japan should not forget the “grave suffering” it inflicted on its neighbours during the war.


“We hope Japan can take a responsible attitude toward its own people and the international community, and earnestly take history as a mirror to avoid a recurrence of the tragedy of the war,” ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told reporters.


The state-run China Daily went much further, claiming the “atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were of Japan’s own making”.

In an editorial on the eve of the visit, the paper accused Japan of “trying to portray Japan as the victim of world war two rather than one of its major perpetrators”.

The bombing of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki was justified, the China Daily said, as “a bid to bring an early end to the war and prevent protracted warfare from claiming even more lives”.

It added: “It was the war of aggression the Japanese militarist government launched against its neighbours and its refusal to accept its failure that had led to US dropping the atomic bombs.”
 

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
24,884
Tokens
What was "stupid"about what he said and did in Japan? I understand your bias against him, but in this thread, the only thing stupid is the Lying Vermin that are claiming he apologized to Japan about the US dropping Nukes, when he did nothing of the sort, and your post added to that lying scenario, with your shot against him, when none was called for in this instance.

What can I say? That it still feels apologetic to me? He gives me car sickness every time I see his picture anymore. Like, "driver please pull over to the side of the road so I can hurl." It's slightly short of the instant hurl that comes up when I see Hillary at a Memorial Day Parade acting like the parade is being throw for her.
 

Rx Normal
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
52,402
Tokens
In a 1986 study, historian and journalist Edwin P. Hoyt nailed the "great myth, perpetuated by well-meaning people throughout the world," that "the atomic bomb caused the surrender of Japan." In Japan's War: The Great Pacific Conflict(p. 420), he explained:


The fact is that as far as the Japanese militarists were concerned, the atomic bomb was just another weapon.

The two atomic bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were icing on the cake, and did not do as much damage as the firebombings of Japanese cities.

The B-29 firebombing campaign had brought the destruction of 3,100,000 homes, leaving 15 million people homeless, and killing about a million of them. It was the ruthless firebombing, and Hirohito's realization that if necessary the Allies would completely destroy Japan and kill every Japanese to achieve "unconditional surrender" that persuaded him to the decision to end the war.

The atomic bomb is indeed a fearsome weapon, but it was not the cause of Japan's surrender, even though the myth persists even to this day.


4420295.jpg
 

Life's a bitch, then you die!
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
28,910
Tokens
If you have read my posts about his ACA, you will see that I have knocked him for presenting a plan that wasn't there. I still believe in the basis of Universal Health Care but I have knocked his plan once it came into play. I believe in some conservative values, I think the country is lacking good conservative and liberal politicians. In this case I have Obama's back.
Nonsense. First off that’s what the ACA was designed to lead to, Universal Health Care and it sucks. You have to look no further than England and the VA. You can’t see the forest for the trees.


Obama doesn’t like America in it’s current form IE a capitalistic society. His roots were formed in communism. He sees America as arrogant thus all the apology tours. The Constitution is the only thing that saved the country from becoming a banana republic. Why do you think the founders set term limits on the presidency? It was to limit the damage that one man could do.


The founders were visionaries and but for a few exceptions there haven’t been any men like them since.
 

Banned
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
15,948
Tokens
What can I say? That it still feels apologetic to me? He gives me car sickness every time I see his picture anymore. Like, "driver please pull over to the side of the road so I can hurl." It's slightly short of the instant hurl that comes up when I see Hillary at a Memorial Day Parade acting like the parade is being throw for her.
The defense rests. The witness admits total bias in this(and every case) regarding this plaintiff. :):)
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,858
Messages
13,574,173
Members
100,876
Latest member
kiemt5385
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com