Media Says War In Iraq Is Going Badly.

[Marco]

There is some real dreaming going on if I am to believe that I can actually watch and see all the fighting that is going on and believe that we can invade a few hot spots like Fallujah and get it all to end.

There will be roadside bombs and resistance as long as we're over there, and when we cut our losses and leave the fighting will be among the separate factions there.....a genuine civil war free-for-all....

All you have to do is look to the Israel/Palestine region and thier fine tradition of fighting for a glimpse at the true reality of the situation in Iraq.

This isn't some army we're fighting, where the commander in chief waves a flag and calls for his men to lay down thier arms and cease fighting upon defeat, like the Nazis or the Japanese.....we're talking about more loosely connected forces, independent of what other factions do, and steeped in religion so deeply that they won't just lay down and go away like a conventional army....

We have an urban version of Vietnam as our battlefield.

 

[GAMEFACE]

yep, pie in the sky. 20 some odd million are pleased we are there and we should pack our bags over 20K, foolish indeed.

 

[mudbone]

Game,

I hope you're right - I hope it's as easy as kick ass in Fallujah and it's all home free from there.

But CIA and DIA and Colin Powell are more pessimistic than that.

Israeli intelligence Agents have told US that Iraq will blow into civil war as soon as we leave so we might as well leave now and minimize casualties.

Maybe you can help me understand: What logical rationale or principle does Bush have that would leave us to believe that democracy will flourish and grow like a planted flower in the Middle East as it has never been done before? Is this one of those ideas you just embrace on faith with no evidence to back it up?

Then, if you can, in addition to the 1100 plus deaths, 7000 plus wounded and the 200 billion for the invasion, what will be the estimated deaths, wounded and money spent before we leave and what will be the outcome? Just a ballpark will do.

 

[GAMEFACE]

Mud, that's exactly why we can't leave now, civil war. Our guys can take fullujah now that political correctness is on the back burner. 15 days or less and it's over.

 

[GAMEFACE]

Just give full military might a chance. If it fails we are in big trouble, get your rug and burka ready.

 

[eek.]

Just give full military might a chance. If it fails we are in big trouble, get your rug and burka ready.

:>Grin> :>Grin>


Yeah. If you left Vietnam all of us were finished.
And when you finally DID leave things trundled on as usual.

Flattening Chechnya changed nothing for the Russkies.

Afghanistan is your blueprint if you want real influence.
Leave them alone to find their own path.

You should have left the Baathists in power.

Now Iraq is like the USA after the Brits left, there's no ruling structure and once US soldiers leave Iraq they will fight each other.

Your own civil war cost more US lives than WW1 and WW2 combined if I remember right.

You go get 'em Game. hehe :>Grin>

 

[Phaedrus]

Iraqi insurgents take 21 Iraqi policement hostage and kill them all, capping off two days of violence in which more than 50 people have been killed.

Prime Minister Allawi declares the nation of Iraq officially under martial law.

I can't believe the way the fúcking liberal, lying, leftist media keeps saying things aren't going well in Iraq. What bastards.


Phaedrus

 

[docmercer--banned]

Fallujah ...

then what "Hot spot" is next???

Face facts .... this cycle is continual and our boys are screwed

I wish Cheneys lesbo daughter could be dropped into Baghdad so then we could see how quickly Cheney would be in love with this war

 

[GAMEFACE]

Give PC-less war a chance. The vast majority of Iraqi's want us there. Lets try a novel concept, kill all the holdouts ie foriegn fighters and saddam loyalist. When we have the slightest set back we hear doom and gloom, gloom and doom. We can't win, bogged down, vietnam and on and on. I don't buy it, political correctness has stalled our efforts and that's about to change. I could be wrong, however, I highly doubt it. Lets revisit this in Feb. Right now it's back to hearing from the defeatest, when they are wrong like usual they'll move on to the next lie. To understand what America has accomplished with so few casualities is remarkable. Check the number of Russians that died in Afghanistan and the soldiers lost on both sides of the Iran-Iraq war. Just give these war operations a chance and if they fail we'll have plenty of time to blame Bush.

 

[peskypup]

my book on this

Here is my book on this post:

Gameface is correct and things will all be as peaceful as Iowa by 28 Feb 05

+900

Gameface is talking out of his arse and killings will still be at or above current levels by 28 Feb 05

-1000

We've heard it all before. The First World War was going to be over by Christmas 1914 according to BOTH sides. Vietnam was never planned out as a 10 year muckup.

There are 2 main problems as I see it for the USA and UK:

1. We are fighting people who in the main are using guerilla tactics, and who have the support of a sizeable minority of the local population. Hence they are able to melt away like butter left out in the sun.

2. We are less willing - a lot less willing - to take casualties than our opponents. This means that we have to use shock and awe style tactics instead of a house to house style infantry campaign. Bombing causes big tactical problems in terms of providing better cover for defenders, ask any German who was in Stalingrad in 1942, any Brit or GI who fought at Monte Cassino in 44. In addition, bombing greatly increases the civilian losses and thereby stores up future problems since we are seen as the aggressors.

If we clean up these problem areas in the next 15 days we will have achieved something no army did in the twentieth century in terms of winkling out committed defenders from well set up positions, with the ability to melt away into the community at large if their position becomes too hot to handle.

 

[Marco]

Thank you Pesky......more realistic thinking and a healthy review of past history could be used right now if the warmongers would open up thier fawking eyes for once.

Listening to some of these people....if it was thier choice, we'd still be taking casualties in Vietnam right now.

 

[GAMEFACE]

Boys,

Iraq is not Iowa, maybe it will be as peaceful as compton or some parts of new york. Actually marco vietnam could have be won if not for political correctness, end of story. back to the doom and gloom drum beat.

 

[bblight]

eek said:
"Yeah. If you left Vietnam all of us were finished.
And when you finally DID leave things trundled on as usual."

eek - I'd like you to check that out with the approximately two million lives that were taken in the North Vietnamese purge when the NVN took over!

Things never trundled on as usual after Vietnam - Vietnam is a sore on the minds of everyone from my generation- whether they served or went to college - we all have our little package of guilt or resentment.

 

[Seymour]

We cannot possible lose the war in Iraq - the enemy does not have a plane, helicopter or one tank - but it looks highly unlikely that we can win the way we would like to.

 

[Marco]

Political correctness from a responsible government should have kept us out of 'Nam, and left the French stuck in the jungle.

Country's bankrupt...
Dumping countless billions into an unwinnable, poorly planned war...
Healthcare costs soaring...
Record deficit...
Dollar falling....
Social Security on the ropes...
Record gas prices....
Political corruption and the no-bid contract....

Yes, back to the clear reality of doom and gloom......maybe a couple more thousand troops in body bags would cheer you up.....

 

[GAMEFACE]

all this matters not one bit if radical islam is left to plot, plan and blow up america. lets not forget they've been at war with us full scale since the 90's and clinton tried to appease, ignore and make friendly. since 9-11 was not an illusion we now know for a fact the clinton strategy did not work. lets try this new way awhile and see what happens. gloom and doom the beat goes on.

 

[eek.]

The Vietnam war changed nothing BB. nada. zip.

And yet 30 years later, after you left/lost, business enterprise zones to encourage foreign capitalists have been appearing in Vietnam.

They got to decide their own fate after they kicked you out dude.

If you had never been there, their society would have had the same basic destiny.

The NVA, being battle hardened after 'The American war' did a couple of useful things afterwards too.

They removed Pol-Pot (who the US sympathised with because he was anti-vietnamese-communist), and they gave the Chinese Army a good bytch-slapping in 1979 when they ventured across the border, thereby putting the Chinese military firmly in its place.

 

[peskypup]

One thing I agree with Gameface

One thing I agree with Gameface on. No way will bush be deflected from his current policy, no way will he ever change his mind.

Tomorrow I am going to contact my spread bookie and short the dollar with a big bet.

 

[GAMEFACE]

everywhere i travel they can't get enough of the yankees bills.

 

[Marco]

GAME......spending them in the USA doesn't count....