i am sure it is all of those things. my friend stayeven scalps and makes like 30 bucks a day lol but with thousands of people, and the money compounding, i am sure they can do this. so for a while,they can do this but at any point in time they WILL disappear. it is only a matter of time. PAULTHOMAS dont be a sucker.
Thanks for making some other good points against this scam, guys. The interesting thing about all this, though, is that all you need do is ask yourself that one life-saving question "Is this too good to be true?" - you don't need to know any of the complexities of the arbitraging and European books and momentary scalps and money management, you just have to know the smell of bullshit when someone is trying to feed it to you - just say NO!
Looks like these fellows cannot tolerate open and honest questions about their scheme, er, business - they are now pre-reading the posts before allowing them to be posted, though somehow this one got by them (and no, I didn't write it but I wish I had! lol) ...
Author: Ponzi
Date: 11-02-03 22:15
Just signed up for a neteller account. I was a bit miffed at first due to the transaction costs on credit card deposits but then I realised my first return from Hedgesyn would more than cover these.
I am going to start with a smallish amount but I will increase later once I am confident in the system. I think it will be a better option to send funds to neteller by bank wire as this reduces the transaction costs.
John Ponzonby
Here's a topic I tried to post and somehow never showed up:
Honest concerns about this site
(1) Where are the principals operating from? Meaning, what country? If in the United States, you might be in violation of the Federal Wire Act.
(2) If you're returning 10% guaranteed every 10 days, then you must be making at least that on your scalps to break-even. What is your current weekly average return on scalps, or even 10-day average?
(3) Approximately how much capital do you have, in thousands?
(4) Are you a listed business in any country?
(5) What legal assurances are in place (like a certified escrow account) to ensure that you will pay all principal balances in the event of unforseen circumstances?
(6) To the casual eye, your concept has every single one of the attributes of a Ponzi scheme, in which the money from new investors is used to pay off the old investors, which attracts more money from the old investors who encourage others to join - this includes the cut-off date. How can a reasonable person know for a fact that this is not one?
(7) If you've been making at least 10% compounded every 10 days for 3 years, even starting with a modest capital, shouldn't every one of you be rich by now?
Thank you for answering whatever you can
Finally, I found this interesting:
Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: HEDGESYN.COM
Created on: 19-Aug-03
Expires on: 19-Aug-04
Registrant:
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
They CREATED the site on August 19, 2003. CREATED!!! Yet they already have 'thousands' of investors and are rushing to close the site to new bettors on November 12th, barely 3 months later - why the rush??? And ask yourself this - why did they register this site using a service that shields their identity (Domains by Proxy, Inc.)? They've taken every possible precaution not to be identified - and I WANT my MONEY in THEIR hands????
Doh!
Author: Ponzi
Date: 11-02-03 22:15
Just signed up for a neteller account. I was a bit miffed at first due to the transaction costs on credit card deposits but then I realised my first return from Hedgesyn would more than cover these.
I am going to start with a smallish amount but I will increase later once I am confident in the system. I think it will be a better option to send funds to neteller by bank wire as this reduces the transaction costs.
John Ponzonby
Here's a topic I tried to post and somehow never showed up:
Honest concerns about this site
(1) Where are the principals operating from? Meaning, what country? If in the United States, you might be in violation of the Federal Wire Act.
(2) If you're returning 10% guaranteed every 10 days, then you must be making at least that on your scalps to break-even. What is your current weekly average return on scalps, or even 10-day average?
(3) Approximately how much capital do you have, in thousands?
(4) Are you a listed business in any country?
(5) What legal assurances are in place (like a certified escrow account) to ensure that you will pay all principal balances in the event of unforseen circumstances?
(6) To the casual eye, your concept has every single one of the attributes of a Ponzi scheme, in which the money from new investors is used to pay off the old investors, which attracts more money from the old investors who encourage others to join - this includes the cut-off date. How can a reasonable person know for a fact that this is not one?
(7) If you've been making at least 10% compounded every 10 days for 3 years, even starting with a modest capital, shouldn't every one of you be rich by now?
Thank you for answering whatever you can
Finally, I found this interesting:
Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: HEDGESYN.COM
Created on: 19-Aug-03
Expires on: 19-Aug-04
Registrant:
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
They CREATED the site on August 19, 2003. CREATED!!! Yet they already have 'thousands' of investors and are rushing to close the site to new bettors on November 12th, barely 3 months later - why the rush??? And ask yourself this - why did they register this site using a service that shields their identity (Domains by Proxy, Inc.)? They've taken every possible precaution not to be identified - and I WANT my MONEY in THEIR hands????
Doh!
I can't believe there're people who still have doubts about this outright pyramid (Ponzi) scheme.
Btw, on tip-ex.com there's a running string "Live sure wins" with continuous arb updates, sometimes you can see an arb as high as 30%, the only (and the main) problem is the liquidity (books limits and offers on exchanges).
Btw, on tip-ex.com there's a running string "Live sure wins" with continuous arb updates, sometimes you can see an arb as high as 30%, the only (and the main) problem is the liquidity (books limits and offers on exchanges).
Good one, Paul - I noticed across the street in my 'trying to save puppies from drowning in 2 inches of water' topic that one of the site's ghosts, or perhaps you or even one of the other ghosts at Covers, was able to open an acct at this site under my moniker and post the same type of slack-jawed, ignorant and blind holy hoseannas to this operation posted all over that laughable joke of a 'forum' (all it needs is a little barbed wire to complete the 'prison camp' motif) - doesn't surprise me, they wouldn't post the REAL topic above because your heros are now previewing EVERYTHING before it gets posted, in their attempt to shut down all honest questions.
That single action tells me all I need to know - and Paul, I realize you're just having a bit o'fun with me because only a cretinous boob would believe I posted that - and of course you aren't - I have faith.
p.s. I'd say, Paul, you'd better pawn everything you own and jump in before Nov. 12th, you can lock up your future with ... with ... oh that's right, you don't know who they are, where they're operating from, you can't contact them except by email and their domain registration is anonymous. Well, don't let that deter you, that and the various rock-solid arguments posted in this topic and not refuted by you nor anyone else. God forbid you let reason get in the way of your greed. All you need do is now lay back and scoop up the easy life, with no effort - truly the 'Holy Grail'. And say hello to your fellow shill Christian for me, you know, the guy who said he has known these guys for over a year but never explained how that was possible when their site has been up only since August of this year.
God, P.T. Barnum was WRONG, there's one born every fvcking SECOND!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jazz:
Looks like these fellows cannot tolerate open and honest questions about their scheme, er, business - they are now pre-reading the posts before allowing them to be posted, ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not surprising, you asked too many pertinent questions. You should know better and have gone at it one thing at a time, knibbling around the edge.
BTW I thought Ponzi had a great post.
Looks like these fellows cannot tolerate open and honest questions about their scheme, er, business - they are now pre-reading the posts before allowing them to be posted, ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not surprising, you asked too many pertinent questions. You should know better and have gone at it one thing at a time, knibbling around the edge.
BTW I thought Ponzi had a great post.
Wow, that was one of the stupidest, most blatant rip-off sites I've ever seen. Some 13 year old kid probably put it up and is burying the post-up money in an account in CR.
If someone made 10% every 10 days, what do they need you're money for. After a few years of profit at that rate, the return would be equal to the GNP of the whole U.S.A.
Will they take a Western Union from me, do you think?
If someone made 10% every 10 days, what do they need you're money for. After a few years of profit at that rate, the return would be equal to the GNP of the whole U.S.A.
Will they take a Western Union from me, do you think?
Lol - well, I have been continuing responding 'across the street' but haven't checked MW yet to see if the same nonsense is there - and in the vein of trying to persuade others to stay the fbck away from this site and all others like it, I'm reposting verbatim the latest posts from Covers about this ... sorry for the length and non-editing, but this makes for instructive reading if you're bored or actually considering one of these sites ... I've highlighed the good stuff ...
theinformer
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Date Joined: 2/11/2003
Posted: 11/3/2003 11:35:16 PM
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Jazz,
You are full of crap, I got a credit for your join, how the hell did that happen? Just be honest with people. You invested $140 in it.
Jazz
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No. Posts: 5171
Date Joined: 1/29/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 12:11:54 AM
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Well, since now you're calling me a liar, which you are, I'll now call you a liar. The funny thing about all this is, I wasn't attacking you, I was attacking the concept of sending money to strangers for a possible Ponzi scheme. Also, since you stood to gain 10% of everyone who signed up and gave you the referral, you now have one hell of a reason to bash me, because we both know a lot of people who would have signed up for this now won't, due mostly to my posts.
Tough shit - I didn't do it to screw you over, I did it to prevent someone else from being screwed - you don't like that? Too ****ing bad.
If I posted up, then why don't you post my name on this forum? Really simple, isn't it? Post my name, my address, whatever E-gold requires. Oh, you say I could fake those? EXACTLY MY POINT - you DON'T KNOW WHO THE **** YOU'RE DEALING WITH ON THE INTERNET, DO YOU?????
But here you are, Informer, all giddy and waiting to have the money wash over you for the rest of your life without critically examining what you're doing. You STILL haven't had the balls to answer the major objections and problems that have been raised in this topic - nope, you scurry in like a little mouse and post quite funny but blatant lies about my posting up at an operation that laughingly pathetic, without proof, and to top it off you go for the 'ad hominem' attack, a nice tactic that attacks the poster without attacking the post.
You aren't capable of answering the questions posed for God knows what reason - I'm betting because you don't have a clue what the answers are, and if you aren't a shill for them, deep down you're probably frightened that I might be right. Minimum, you know my objections are based in reality and FACT, while your points are solely steeped in hope and greed, because you have nothing else but the anonymous word of strangers as security for your money.
I don't like attacking people, go back and you'll see I've gone out of my way not to, but I also don't back away from it when necessary, especially when a liar like yourself is doing it. Admit you are joking around, and we're fine, don't, and I'll know for a fact you're a liar.
Jazz
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Date Joined: 1/29/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 12:13:38 AM
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Btw, for those being amused by the witty repartee here - ask yourself one question: who stands to gain the most by discrediting the other? Nope, not me, I don't get a penny for my efforts, but these boys, well, 10% of your sign-up is one hell of a motivation, I'd imagine.
LEYKIS101
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No. Posts: 246
Date Joined: 11/8/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:05:46 AM
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Theyre obviously filling up the Hedgesyn forum with bogus posts. Real posts let you view the sender's email address, others do not. I smell a rat.
LEYKIS101
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No. Posts: 246
Date Joined: 11/8/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:10:51 AM
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Jazz, how can you check out the domain info on www.hyipmonitor.com? I see theyre always telling posters to rate HS there.
bluewhackadoo
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No. Posts: 830
Date Joined: 9/30/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:23:59 AM
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U can search domain registrations at almost any registraion site by doing a whois, try...
http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index.jhtml
theinformer
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Date Joined: 2/11/2003
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:34:54 AM
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Jazz, you stand to make 10% every 10 days off your $140.
So yes you do stand to make something.
Either you have the acc there OR someone by the name of Jazz has.
I am happy to believe it is not you and move on. My job marketing the site is done, they require no new clients and only time will tell if they are legit or not.
I have emailed Steve to ask him to change that post about Jazz on the boards.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 1:44:44 AM
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Thanks, informer - I don't lie, someone decided to have some fun by using 'my' name, which of course I've never registered anonymously.
I had no idea you were marketing the site - I thought you were just an enthusiastic bystander/investor - you're not implying you have some kind of relationship with that book, are you? Also, and not to beat a dead horse here, no way in this space-time continuum that I'd be satisfied with letting 'time tell' on something like this.
Leykis: no idea, I'll look into that tomorrow, time to crawl off after the MNF game and crash.
ChrisIL2003
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No. Posts: 44
Date Joined: 10/14/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:47:02 AM
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Hi Jazz,
I first found out about this group, thru contacts I had in a sports betting syndicate that I invested in last year.
bluewhackadoo
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Date Joined: 9/30/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:50:33 AM
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LOL. This is getting bizarre now.
That post by EveryOtherWord that the dumbasses at Hedgesyn failed to pick up on, orginally was constructed to say something to the effect of "Hedgsyn robs peoples money, stay away." when u read every other word of it.
And the topic title was "Hedgsyn doesnt robs" or "Hedgsyn robs" when u read every other word... That has been changed to "Hedgsyn Rocks" and the post has been edited to say... "Hedgesyn doesnt rob people. Trust them and you gets money. Negative people stay away!!"
Why the jackasses at Hedsyn didnt just delete the offended post after Informer, Informed them of it is beyond me... no they are so incompetent they re-edited it... but guess what troll-huffers, the post now says...
"Hedgesyn rob. Trust and gets negative."
Damn u guys are lame.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 2:26:29 AM
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lol, Blue - classic post by that guy!!!
Looks like Steve is feeling the heat - look at this post he put up:
...so rare an opportunity.....
Author: Steve
Date: 11-04-03 02:19
Risk and Reward....if you can't roll the dice you'll never make it big
I have lost 100k in scams and I have made 500k in real deals......
I started with 5 figure spends and now have multiple.....
It's easy to tell the difference in the Scams or the real deals....
Some forum members aren't sure or openly bash HS...others see the light
HS has been soliciting funds for about one month and now closing to new funds.....JUST THINK ABOUT IT......HS is one of those once in a lifetime opportunities....talk with Steve or Tony on live help...I have extensively....both are 100% Honest and back HS with their own money....In fact we've invested in some of the same HYIP's.......Skeptics are welcome...I've been paid everytime, including 5 figure payouts!!!!
...the door is soon closing as it should.....if you're on the edge it's time
To ROLL THE DICE!!!! Steve
Anyone notice that Steve says he's been soliciting funds for only ONE MONTH??? Does THAT ring any alarm bells with you??? Hoe about that the post above was purportedly written by Steve, yet the moron writing it slipped up with this one: "talk with Steve or Tony on live help...I have extensively....both are 100% Honest and back HS with their own money.". LMFAO!!!! So this ain't Steve posting!
And look at the pitch he's throwing at you - it's like a ****ing carnival barker? The idiot goes on to say this: "I have lost 100k in scams and I have made 500k in real deals"
LMFAO again!!! So pseudo-Steve is a real smart wheeler-dealer who is totally familiar with scams and 'real deals' (interpretation: non-existent deals or simply other successful scams) - he's literally spraying saliva at the screen in his typing, gonna get ya to 'ROLL THE DICE', it's a LIMITED TIME OFFER, GET IN NOW!!!
Omigod, this is rich material that deserves to be mined for all it's worth! Classic, classic shit! So after a WHOLE MONTH or so of paying off people with other people's money, this PROVES they're on the level??? ROTFLMFAO!!! And another: "It's easy to tell the difference in the Scams or the real deals.... ... yet he never says HOW! Jesus Christ, I pity the person who, after having read this entire topic, sends money in anyway - and I sincerely mean that, because you are going to be robbed blind the rest of your natural life.
Finally, go back and read pseudo-Steve's whole post - doesn't that remind you of the scamdicappers' pitches where they desperately try to sell you shit by the ounce and charge you for caviar by the pound???
It's my new favorite site on the Net for comedy relief
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 2:31:15 AM
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By the way - why in hell would you have to 'roll the dice' if there wasn't risk? Ahhhh, because actually there IS - and they're trying to appeal to that urge in gamblers to go for it. It's also called the Pavlov reflex
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 2:33:07 AM
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Finally, if pseudo-Steve made a net of $400,000 on scams and 'real deals', why did he need to raise 'synidcate' money to finance the arbitraging? Anyone care to estimate what rolling over HALF that amount in scalps every 10 days would bring?
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 2:36:51 AM
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Another classic by Casper the Friendly 'Mike' Ghost! This one is designed to make you believe a fellow investor has been thoughtful about his investment ...
Re: Closing to the Public and Spending Limits
Author: Mike
Date: 11-04-03 05:30
As a new investor, I'd would love to have the chance to have my investment grow some more. I think the ideas above are good. How about allowing us to compound one investment per month until we get to our $10,000? How about allowing us to add up to 20% new monies per month as well (just a figure thrown out there). Any option mentioned to keep my investment growing some would be welcomed to me. I'm sure there are other good possibilities out there.
I am going to assume the reserve fund will continue to grow. By slowing the growth down of current members while not accepting new ones, the reserve fund should protect Hedgesyn while allowing your clients the opportunity to receive the treasured $1000 every 10 days.
As for those already at or beyond the $10000 mark, let them work toward one more $10000 like was mentioned. Whatever helps all of us and keeps Hedgesyn stay afloat I am all for!
theinformer
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No. Posts: 101
Date Joined: 2/11/2003
Posted: 11/4/2003 3:09:38 AM
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Jazz,
Those Steves are not the same, look at the email address of Steve, I know this guy from other forums, why not at least email the guy before calling him a fake as you are 100% wrong on this one.
Also, so you are telling me if HS dont take any more money in, and in 12 month time is still paying it's clients, you will still call it a scam?
TI
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 10:08:52 AM
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Informer: was HOPING you'd say something about that Steve - proves my point that I wasn't the Jazz in that forum - lol. Anyhow, if I haven't made it crystal clear yet, I'll try to do so again: it is IRRELEVANT whether that happens or not - the simple, undeniable FACT is that it is indistinguishable from a Ponzi scheme. If you invest in this, you'll invest in ALL Ponzi schemes, chain letters, pyramid clubs, etc. Meanwhile, here's another ghost's reply to Steve:
Author: Tom
Date: 11-04-03 02:43
You are right Steve,
If this was a scam then why wouldn't they keep taking more funds? They were going to until the end of the year, and then changed that to the end of November and have now said one week as there are many funding their egold accs.
They are getting so much money thrown at them that they have had to say dont send anymoe.
I think them not taking more shows this is NOT a scam.
Tom
-------------
Don't the hairs raise on the back of your neck when you realize their forum is filled with shills, ghosts and original posts that they've edited to completely change the meaning, and that honest questions are not allowed to be asked if too painful? In case anyone has missed this - the reasons a Ponzi scheme closes to new investors: if they've reached 'the wall' in getting new investors in, or have some time limitation (like they need the money), they would do this to trigger the panic-greed reaction in current investors and potential ones, who if they sit out now will forever lose a golden opportunity.
Oh, for Christ’s sakes, Chris’s comment about finding out about this place “thru contacts I had in a sports betting syndicate that I invested in last year.” just rang a loud bell - theinformer, aren't you the same one who touted a sports syndicate earlier in the year that I posted warnings about, and aren't you the same 'theinformer' who posted the following touting yet a THIRD syndicate??? These are excerpts from your ad ...
Topic: Check out this SYNDICATE, they rock
Posted: 9/3/2003 11:08:58 AM
theinformer
"Hi Guys,
Around 14 months ago I joined this syndicate, at first I thought it was a scam but thought I'd go in for $200 with it. My $200 is now worth $3200. Wish I got in from the start. Anyhow last week I took out $2,000 and got paid within 24 hours. I have met some great friends via the syndicate and highly recommend it to anyone who is willing to give it ago."
"Forgot to include this, they sent out an ad last week and I happen to of got one even though I am a member, go figure. Please do not think of this as marketing, I get nothing out of this, just wanted to give everyone a chance of making some money." Jazz - who here is gullible enough to believe you wouldn't be making referral fees from this, when you ARE from this HedgeSyn? For all anyone knows, you deposit small amounts in these syndicates then convince others to pony up so you can make money simply off the referrals - for after all, who really knows what your motivation is? Just a thought
And this tidbit I find startingly similar to HedgeSyn: "Here is your opportunity to generate 2-10% a week on your money without stepping one foot near a race track. They do all of the work! The Turf Club Syndicate is basically a pool of membership funds, which are wagered in an extremely controlled fashion on 1-6 carefully selected races by the Turf Clubs expert handicapping staff. The average win percentage of these plays is over 70% (powersyn.com) " Jazz: hmmmm, that's close to 10% every 10 days, isn't it? Yet the mechanism for generating the profits is totally different.
Theinformer: another fascinating piece of info I just picked up from Powersyn's site:
"In December 2001 we started our first (turfclubsyn) of the three syndicates below. Each of the six months cycle has produced and average of 250% PROFIT!!
Our two newest syndicates, sportsyn and baccsyn were started in June and July of 2003 respectively. So far both are performing awesomely up over 70% each!!
In November we will be introducing our GDBF synidcate which has been 3 years of tireless research on GOOD DOGS and BAD FAVORITES, capitlalizing on the money flow of MLB and NHL sports betting.
Slow and steady growth wins the race, and our goal each six months is to make our members 200- 400% PROFIT."
Jesus, informer, why aren't you RICH by now, you lack the confidence to invest more money at the same time you are urging others to throw THEIRS in??? You've been in this 14 months??? And now joining another???
Bottom line for me: you've touted at LEAST 3 syndicates in this forum, you've admitted to receiving a referral fee from HedgeSyn, and yet you expect people to simply take you at YOUR WORD that this is a good deal? At best, you're simply naive for investing in these - at worst, you're profiting by convincing others to put up money in extremely risky operations.
Exactly HOW STUPID do you think we are?
theinformer
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No. Posts: 101
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Posted: 11/4/2003 10:54:21 AM
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Jazz,
I have been paid for around 32 signups for therx/covers.
So you are saying the following, please correct me if I am wrong.
That if this time next year that HS is still going and paying its members AND it doesnt take in ANY new funds from next week, that it is a ponzi/scam.
A ponzi is where they use new money to pay old people. How is this possible if there is no new money and everyone is getting their principle +10% sent back each ten days?
I dont think it can be called a scam/ponzi if they take in NO MORE money from next week and they are still around in 12 months? True?
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:08:48 AM
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theinformer: then my guess was correct, you are profiting.
As to your point about being a Ponzi scheme, no, because you have no idea whether these same guys also have money coming in from other similar sites or scams, but I'd hazard a guess that if you were able to get ALL of your money out after a year, then it probably isn't one.
But none of the points about how unlikely their scheme is have been refuted - don't you see that it's the INVESTOR (i.e., naive gambler) who is the one taking ALL of the risks??? You only have THEIR word for it that they've invested ANY of THEIR money in this - why in hell would you risk losing good money on this? Answer: greed.
Fine - send all your money to all the syndicates promising to double your money in 90 days, quadruple it in 6 months - believe strangers at Hedgesyn who cannot be identified nor personally contacted are more wise and honorable stewards of your money that you are, that returns like this can simply be picked from the fabled Money Tree, without effort. I still don't understand how you haven't gotten rich yet with these syndicates, but I suppose you'll find out one day, sooner rather than later, that "all that glisters is not gold".
You have not made ONE effort to answer all of the reasoned, critical arguments made concerning not sending your money in, EXCEPT for one: 'time will tell'. If that alone seems reasonable to you, then I submit you don't understand what 'reason' means.
totalguy
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:15:35 AM
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Christian, Informer, Stevo, et al are so entrenched into this HYIP scene that they can't even recognize why a normal, logical-thinking person would not be interested in their HYIP.
I went to that HYIPmonitor site and read some of the posts there. Its a whole different mentality there. Here are a couple of posts from there:
"People the entire INDUSTRY is set up to be scams. One after the other, and we all KNOW this, but we keep playing the "games" hoping that one will last more than 3 months. Please name ONE from last year that is still around and paying out. Just one."
Response:
"It's called gambling. It's like playing the slots, but intsead of being held to the fixed odds of a programmed machine, we are matching wits against the admins in a realm of ultimate poker. You know what it's like? Ever play that poker game "Guts"? It's just like that."
and
"If you can't swim do not go in the pool."
They chalk up getting bent over and screwed in these HYIP scams as a part of life and get screwed over and over again. Once this one is over, they'll either start/"invest" in another one in 3 months. What a self-destructive mentality.
theinformer
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:48:07 AM
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Totalguy,
I see it as gambling. I know the risks.
Jazz, Yes i did make some money out of this, I only hope everyone else does. And I wonder how many people who have bagged it actually joined from here. I know one did (100%) and no its not you jazz, I will not mention here as I dont want to embarrass them.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:49:05 AM
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a sad but true and great post, totalguy - it's sad - just like in the original Ponzi scheme, SEVEN YEARS after it was proven to be a total fraud and Ponzi had served jail time, you still had people believing in him - it's an odd psychosis of some sort, which gamblers seem more prone to that others and which is why these scams are set up around sports betting - there are a LOT of greedy gamblers out there.
Jazz
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No. Posts: 5171
Date Joined: 1/29/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 11:53:35 AM
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informer, not ONE other 'investor' other than you and Chris have stepped in here after my initial posts and follow-ups to give testimonials to HSYN - not one. Why? Because I think they're embarrassed because they fell for this, and understandably don't want to show up here because now they probably understand what they got themselves into. But all I can tell them is PULL YOUR MONEY OUT NOW before you regret it - do you REALLY want to think about the possibility EACH AND EVERY DAY that these anonymous, un-contactable strangers are just going to take your money and run??
Risk-taking my ass, this is just stupid.
totalguy
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No. Posts: 1748
Date Joined: 10/29/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 12:01:52 PM
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Informer, thanks for helping me prove the point which should be abundantly clear to anyone with half a brain. If the HYIP veterans are resigned to the fact that at some point very soon, the HYIP owners will close shop and skip out with their money and that that is expected and simply part of the game, then they clearly live in a whole different world than the rest of us.
theinformer
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No. Posts: 101
Date Joined: 2/11/2003
Posted: 11/3/2003 11:35:16 PM
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Jazz,
You are full of crap, I got a credit for your join, how the hell did that happen? Just be honest with people. You invested $140 in it.
Jazz
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No. Posts: 5171
Date Joined: 1/29/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 12:11:54 AM
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Well, since now you're calling me a liar, which you are, I'll now call you a liar. The funny thing about all this is, I wasn't attacking you, I was attacking the concept of sending money to strangers for a possible Ponzi scheme. Also, since you stood to gain 10% of everyone who signed up and gave you the referral, you now have one hell of a reason to bash me, because we both know a lot of people who would have signed up for this now won't, due mostly to my posts.
Tough shit - I didn't do it to screw you over, I did it to prevent someone else from being screwed - you don't like that? Too ****ing bad.
If I posted up, then why don't you post my name on this forum? Really simple, isn't it? Post my name, my address, whatever E-gold requires. Oh, you say I could fake those? EXACTLY MY POINT - you DON'T KNOW WHO THE **** YOU'RE DEALING WITH ON THE INTERNET, DO YOU?????
But here you are, Informer, all giddy and waiting to have the money wash over you for the rest of your life without critically examining what you're doing. You STILL haven't had the balls to answer the major objections and problems that have been raised in this topic - nope, you scurry in like a little mouse and post quite funny but blatant lies about my posting up at an operation that laughingly pathetic, without proof, and to top it off you go for the 'ad hominem' attack, a nice tactic that attacks the poster without attacking the post.
You aren't capable of answering the questions posed for God knows what reason - I'm betting because you don't have a clue what the answers are, and if you aren't a shill for them, deep down you're probably frightened that I might be right. Minimum, you know my objections are based in reality and FACT, while your points are solely steeped in hope and greed, because you have nothing else but the anonymous word of strangers as security for your money.
I don't like attacking people, go back and you'll see I've gone out of my way not to, but I also don't back away from it when necessary, especially when a liar like yourself is doing it. Admit you are joking around, and we're fine, don't, and I'll know for a fact you're a liar.
Jazz
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No. Posts: 5171
Date Joined: 1/29/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 12:13:38 AM
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Btw, for those being amused by the witty repartee here - ask yourself one question: who stands to gain the most by discrediting the other? Nope, not me, I don't get a penny for my efforts, but these boys, well, 10% of your sign-up is one hell of a motivation, I'd imagine.
LEYKIS101
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No. Posts: 246
Date Joined: 11/8/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:05:46 AM
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Theyre obviously filling up the Hedgesyn forum with bogus posts. Real posts let you view the sender's email address, others do not. I smell a rat.
LEYKIS101
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No. Posts: 246
Date Joined: 11/8/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:10:51 AM
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Jazz, how can you check out the domain info on www.hyipmonitor.com? I see theyre always telling posters to rate HS there.
bluewhackadoo
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No. Posts: 830
Date Joined: 9/30/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:23:59 AM
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U can search domain registrations at almost any registraion site by doing a whois, try...
http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index.jhtml
theinformer
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No. Posts: 101
Date Joined: 2/11/2003
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:34:54 AM
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Jazz, you stand to make 10% every 10 days off your $140.
So yes you do stand to make something.
Either you have the acc there OR someone by the name of Jazz has.
I am happy to believe it is not you and move on. My job marketing the site is done, they require no new clients and only time will tell if they are legit or not.
I have emailed Steve to ask him to change that post about Jazz on the boards.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 1:44:44 AM
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Thanks, informer - I don't lie, someone decided to have some fun by using 'my' name, which of course I've never registered anonymously.
I had no idea you were marketing the site - I thought you were just an enthusiastic bystander/investor - you're not implying you have some kind of relationship with that book, are you? Also, and not to beat a dead horse here, no way in this space-time continuum that I'd be satisfied with letting 'time tell' on something like this.
Leykis: no idea, I'll look into that tomorrow, time to crawl off after the MNF game and crash.
ChrisIL2003
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No. Posts: 44
Date Joined: 10/14/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:47:02 AM
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Hi Jazz,
I first found out about this group, thru contacts I had in a sports betting syndicate that I invested in last year.
bluewhackadoo
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Date Joined: 9/30/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 1:50:33 AM
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LOL. This is getting bizarre now.
That post by EveryOtherWord that the dumbasses at Hedgesyn failed to pick up on, orginally was constructed to say something to the effect of "Hedgsyn robs peoples money, stay away." when u read every other word of it.
And the topic title was "Hedgsyn doesnt robs" or "Hedgsyn robs" when u read every other word... That has been changed to "Hedgsyn Rocks" and the post has been edited to say... "Hedgesyn doesnt rob people. Trust them and you gets money. Negative people stay away!!"
Why the jackasses at Hedsyn didnt just delete the offended post after Informer, Informed them of it is beyond me... no they are so incompetent they re-edited it... but guess what troll-huffers, the post now says...
"Hedgesyn rob. Trust and gets negative."
Damn u guys are lame.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 2:26:29 AM
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lol, Blue - classic post by that guy!!!
Looks like Steve is feeling the heat - look at this post he put up:
...so rare an opportunity.....
Author: Steve
Date: 11-04-03 02:19
Risk and Reward....if you can't roll the dice you'll never make it big
I have lost 100k in scams and I have made 500k in real deals......
I started with 5 figure spends and now have multiple.....
It's easy to tell the difference in the Scams or the real deals....
Some forum members aren't sure or openly bash HS...others see the light
HS has been soliciting funds for about one month and now closing to new funds.....JUST THINK ABOUT IT......HS is one of those once in a lifetime opportunities....talk with Steve or Tony on live help...I have extensively....both are 100% Honest and back HS with their own money....In fact we've invested in some of the same HYIP's.......Skeptics are welcome...I've been paid everytime, including 5 figure payouts!!!!
...the door is soon closing as it should.....if you're on the edge it's time
To ROLL THE DICE!!!! Steve
Anyone notice that Steve says he's been soliciting funds for only ONE MONTH??? Does THAT ring any alarm bells with you??? Hoe about that the post above was purportedly written by Steve, yet the moron writing it slipped up with this one: "talk with Steve or Tony on live help...I have extensively....both are 100% Honest and back HS with their own money.". LMFAO!!!! So this ain't Steve posting!
And look at the pitch he's throwing at you - it's like a ****ing carnival barker? The idiot goes on to say this: "I have lost 100k in scams and I have made 500k in real deals"
LMFAO again!!! So pseudo-Steve is a real smart wheeler-dealer who is totally familiar with scams and 'real deals' (interpretation: non-existent deals or simply other successful scams) - he's literally spraying saliva at the screen in his typing, gonna get ya to 'ROLL THE DICE', it's a LIMITED TIME OFFER, GET IN NOW!!!
Omigod, this is rich material that deserves to be mined for all it's worth! Classic, classic shit! So after a WHOLE MONTH or so of paying off people with other people's money, this PROVES they're on the level??? ROTFLMFAO!!! And another: "It's easy to tell the difference in the Scams or the real deals.... ... yet he never says HOW! Jesus Christ, I pity the person who, after having read this entire topic, sends money in anyway - and I sincerely mean that, because you are going to be robbed blind the rest of your natural life.
Finally, go back and read pseudo-Steve's whole post - doesn't that remind you of the scamdicappers' pitches where they desperately try to sell you shit by the ounce and charge you for caviar by the pound???
It's my new favorite site on the Net for comedy relief
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 2:31:15 AM
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By the way - why in hell would you have to 'roll the dice' if there wasn't risk? Ahhhh, because actually there IS - and they're trying to appeal to that urge in gamblers to go for it. It's also called the Pavlov reflex
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 2:33:07 AM
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Finally, if pseudo-Steve made a net of $400,000 on scams and 'real deals', why did he need to raise 'synidcate' money to finance the arbitraging? Anyone care to estimate what rolling over HALF that amount in scalps every 10 days would bring?
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 2:36:51 AM
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Another classic by Casper the Friendly 'Mike' Ghost! This one is designed to make you believe a fellow investor has been thoughtful about his investment ...
Re: Closing to the Public and Spending Limits
Author: Mike
Date: 11-04-03 05:30
As a new investor, I'd would love to have the chance to have my investment grow some more. I think the ideas above are good. How about allowing us to compound one investment per month until we get to our $10,000? How about allowing us to add up to 20% new monies per month as well (just a figure thrown out there). Any option mentioned to keep my investment growing some would be welcomed to me. I'm sure there are other good possibilities out there.
I am going to assume the reserve fund will continue to grow. By slowing the growth down of current members while not accepting new ones, the reserve fund should protect Hedgesyn while allowing your clients the opportunity to receive the treasured $1000 every 10 days.
As for those already at or beyond the $10000 mark, let them work toward one more $10000 like was mentioned. Whatever helps all of us and keeps Hedgesyn stay afloat I am all for!
theinformer
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No. Posts: 101
Date Joined: 2/11/2003
Posted: 11/4/2003 3:09:38 AM
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Jazz,
Those Steves are not the same, look at the email address of Steve, I know this guy from other forums, why not at least email the guy before calling him a fake as you are 100% wrong on this one.
Also, so you are telling me if HS dont take any more money in, and in 12 month time is still paying it's clients, you will still call it a scam?
TI
Jazz
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Date Joined: 1/29/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 10:08:52 AM
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Informer: was HOPING you'd say something about that Steve - proves my point that I wasn't the Jazz in that forum - lol. Anyhow, if I haven't made it crystal clear yet, I'll try to do so again: it is IRRELEVANT whether that happens or not - the simple, undeniable FACT is that it is indistinguishable from a Ponzi scheme. If you invest in this, you'll invest in ALL Ponzi schemes, chain letters, pyramid clubs, etc. Meanwhile, here's another ghost's reply to Steve:
Author: Tom
Date: 11-04-03 02:43
You are right Steve,
If this was a scam then why wouldn't they keep taking more funds? They were going to until the end of the year, and then changed that to the end of November and have now said one week as there are many funding their egold accs.
They are getting so much money thrown at them that they have had to say dont send anymoe.
I think them not taking more shows this is NOT a scam.
Tom
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Don't the hairs raise on the back of your neck when you realize their forum is filled with shills, ghosts and original posts that they've edited to completely change the meaning, and that honest questions are not allowed to be asked if too painful? In case anyone has missed this - the reasons a Ponzi scheme closes to new investors: if they've reached 'the wall' in getting new investors in, or have some time limitation (like they need the money), they would do this to trigger the panic-greed reaction in current investors and potential ones, who if they sit out now will forever lose a golden opportunity.
Oh, for Christ’s sakes, Chris’s comment about finding out about this place “thru contacts I had in a sports betting syndicate that I invested in last year.” just rang a loud bell - theinformer, aren't you the same one who touted a sports syndicate earlier in the year that I posted warnings about, and aren't you the same 'theinformer' who posted the following touting yet a THIRD syndicate??? These are excerpts from your ad ...
Topic: Check out this SYNDICATE, they rock
Posted: 9/3/2003 11:08:58 AM
theinformer
"Hi Guys,
Around 14 months ago I joined this syndicate, at first I thought it was a scam but thought I'd go in for $200 with it. My $200 is now worth $3200. Wish I got in from the start. Anyhow last week I took out $2,000 and got paid within 24 hours. I have met some great friends via the syndicate and highly recommend it to anyone who is willing to give it ago."
"Forgot to include this, they sent out an ad last week and I happen to of got one even though I am a member, go figure. Please do not think of this as marketing, I get nothing out of this, just wanted to give everyone a chance of making some money." Jazz - who here is gullible enough to believe you wouldn't be making referral fees from this, when you ARE from this HedgeSyn? For all anyone knows, you deposit small amounts in these syndicates then convince others to pony up so you can make money simply off the referrals - for after all, who really knows what your motivation is? Just a thought
And this tidbit I find startingly similar to HedgeSyn: "Here is your opportunity to generate 2-10% a week on your money without stepping one foot near a race track. They do all of the work! The Turf Club Syndicate is basically a pool of membership funds, which are wagered in an extremely controlled fashion on 1-6 carefully selected races by the Turf Clubs expert handicapping staff. The average win percentage of these plays is over 70% (powersyn.com) " Jazz: hmmmm, that's close to 10% every 10 days, isn't it? Yet the mechanism for generating the profits is totally different.
Theinformer: another fascinating piece of info I just picked up from Powersyn's site:
"In December 2001 we started our first (turfclubsyn) of the three syndicates below. Each of the six months cycle has produced and average of 250% PROFIT!!
Our two newest syndicates, sportsyn and baccsyn were started in June and July of 2003 respectively. So far both are performing awesomely up over 70% each!!
In November we will be introducing our GDBF synidcate which has been 3 years of tireless research on GOOD DOGS and BAD FAVORITES, capitlalizing on the money flow of MLB and NHL sports betting.
Slow and steady growth wins the race, and our goal each six months is to make our members 200- 400% PROFIT."
Jesus, informer, why aren't you RICH by now, you lack the confidence to invest more money at the same time you are urging others to throw THEIRS in??? You've been in this 14 months??? And now joining another???
Bottom line for me: you've touted at LEAST 3 syndicates in this forum, you've admitted to receiving a referral fee from HedgeSyn, and yet you expect people to simply take you at YOUR WORD that this is a good deal? At best, you're simply naive for investing in these - at worst, you're profiting by convincing others to put up money in extremely risky operations.
Exactly HOW STUPID do you think we are?
theinformer
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No. Posts: 101
Date Joined: 2/11/2003
Posted: 11/4/2003 10:54:21 AM
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Jazz,
I have been paid for around 32 signups for therx/covers.
So you are saying the following, please correct me if I am wrong.
That if this time next year that HS is still going and paying its members AND it doesnt take in ANY new funds from next week, that it is a ponzi/scam.
A ponzi is where they use new money to pay old people. How is this possible if there is no new money and everyone is getting their principle +10% sent back each ten days?
I dont think it can be called a scam/ponzi if they take in NO MORE money from next week and they are still around in 12 months? True?
Jazz
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No. Posts: 5171
Date Joined: 1/29/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 11:08:48 AM
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theinformer: then my guess was correct, you are profiting.
As to your point about being a Ponzi scheme, no, because you have no idea whether these same guys also have money coming in from other similar sites or scams, but I'd hazard a guess that if you were able to get ALL of your money out after a year, then it probably isn't one.
But none of the points about how unlikely their scheme is have been refuted - don't you see that it's the INVESTOR (i.e., naive gambler) who is the one taking ALL of the risks??? You only have THEIR word for it that they've invested ANY of THEIR money in this - why in hell would you risk losing good money on this? Answer: greed.
Fine - send all your money to all the syndicates promising to double your money in 90 days, quadruple it in 6 months - believe strangers at Hedgesyn who cannot be identified nor personally contacted are more wise and honorable stewards of your money that you are, that returns like this can simply be picked from the fabled Money Tree, without effort. I still don't understand how you haven't gotten rich yet with these syndicates, but I suppose you'll find out one day, sooner rather than later, that "all that glisters is not gold".
You have not made ONE effort to answer all of the reasoned, critical arguments made concerning not sending your money in, EXCEPT for one: 'time will tell'. If that alone seems reasonable to you, then I submit you don't understand what 'reason' means.
totalguy
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:15:35 AM
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Christian, Informer, Stevo, et al are so entrenched into this HYIP scene that they can't even recognize why a normal, logical-thinking person would not be interested in their HYIP.
I went to that HYIPmonitor site and read some of the posts there. Its a whole different mentality there. Here are a couple of posts from there:
"People the entire INDUSTRY is set up to be scams. One after the other, and we all KNOW this, but we keep playing the "games" hoping that one will last more than 3 months. Please name ONE from last year that is still around and paying out. Just one."
Response:
"It's called gambling. It's like playing the slots, but intsead of being held to the fixed odds of a programmed machine, we are matching wits against the admins in a realm of ultimate poker. You know what it's like? Ever play that poker game "Guts"? It's just like that."
and
"If you can't swim do not go in the pool."
They chalk up getting bent over and screwed in these HYIP scams as a part of life and get screwed over and over again. Once this one is over, they'll either start/"invest" in another one in 3 months. What a self-destructive mentality.
theinformer
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No. Posts: 101
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:48:07 AM
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Totalguy,
I see it as gambling. I know the risks.
Jazz, Yes i did make some money out of this, I only hope everyone else does. And I wonder how many people who have bagged it actually joined from here. I know one did (100%) and no its not you jazz, I will not mention here as I dont want to embarrass them.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:49:05 AM
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a sad but true and great post, totalguy - it's sad - just like in the original Ponzi scheme, SEVEN YEARS after it was proven to be a total fraud and Ponzi had served jail time, you still had people believing in him - it's an odd psychosis of some sort, which gamblers seem more prone to that others and which is why these scams are set up around sports betting - there are a LOT of greedy gamblers out there.
Jazz
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No. Posts: 5171
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:53:35 AM
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informer, not ONE other 'investor' other than you and Chris have stepped in here after my initial posts and follow-ups to give testimonials to HSYN - not one. Why? Because I think they're embarrassed because they fell for this, and understandably don't want to show up here because now they probably understand what they got themselves into. But all I can tell them is PULL YOUR MONEY OUT NOW before you regret it - do you REALLY want to think about the possibility EACH AND EVERY DAY that these anonymous, un-contactable strangers are just going to take your money and run??
Risk-taking my ass, this is just stupid.
totalguy
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Posted: 11/4/2003 12:01:52 PM
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Informer, thanks for helping me prove the point which should be abundantly clear to anyone with half a brain. If the HYIP veterans are resigned to the fact that at some point very soon, the HYIP owners will close shop and skip out with their money and that that is expected and simply part of the game, then they clearly live in a whole different world than the rest of us.
Go get'em Jazz
I first remember the Pyramid schemes in the late 70's.....everyone was talking about how much money they made and how easy it was yada yada yada. Until the bottom fell out. They brought it back in the 80's and 90's.
And now in 2003 IT's BACK again with a gambling twist.
There will ALWAYS be fools that fall for it as there will always be LAZY minds that want their piece of the pie that's the EASIEST to get. Because they feel they deserve it. And they don't want to miss out this time
And that's just the way it is. Let them find out the HARD way like others before them.
I'd rather WORK for my money.
I first remember the Pyramid schemes in the late 70's.....everyone was talking about how much money they made and how easy it was yada yada yada. Until the bottom fell out. They brought it back in the 80's and 90's.
And now in 2003 IT's BACK again with a gambling twist.
There will ALWAYS be fools that fall for it as there will always be LAZY minds that want their piece of the pie that's the EASIEST to get. Because they feel they deserve it. And they don't want to miss out this time
And that's just the way it is. Let them find out the HARD way like others before them.
I'd rather WORK for my money.
Good work, Jazz.
I had a couple posts deleted from their site as well. But if this doesn't tell you what kind of people you (anyone) is dealing with then you deserve to lose your money:
"I have lost 100k in scams and I have made 500k in real deals......
It's easy to tell the difference in the Scams or the real deals...."
So he just felt like donating 100K? LMAO
There is just so much wrong with this that if a person isn't made deaf, dumb and blind by greed you can see through the tissue-thin facade.
I had a couple posts deleted from their site as well. But if this doesn't tell you what kind of people you (anyone) is dealing with then you deserve to lose your money:
"I have lost 100k in scams and I have made 500k in real deals......
It's easy to tell the difference in the Scams or the real deals...."
So he just felt like donating 100K? LMAO
There is just so much wrong with this that if a person isn't made deaf, dumb and blind by greed you can see through the tissue-thin facade.
Today's update from the Covers' topic, for those who are amusing themselves with this story ... I actually think I made a difference in one case and certainly proved a point about these schemes being scams in another ...
SEV711
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Posted: 11/4/2003 6:05:15 PM
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...yes I really exist...I had my share of losers in life(everyone learns....)HYIP's are risky business...90%+ are scams I know...so why do I invest in hedgesyn...."TRUST"...I have work with members of hedgesyn for one year...they have only recomended two other investments to me....both yeilding triple digit returns....BASH all you want.....but with diversification in multiple high risk investments(stocks,options, futures, precious metals,etc....) I have out done any returns one could expect anywhere else
HS could go belly up tommorrow.....the stock market could crash...the US dollar might tank.....world war might break out......but time will tell!!!
Waiting for bashers to let us know there money making strategies....
Do you "SOAR with the Eagles" or "Scratch with the Turkeys"
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 6:19:26 PM
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GREAT first-time post!!! LMFAO!!!
You couldn't have posted a finer example of a clueless booster post - so pathetic, so lame, so totally without any FACTS whatsoever.
Let me put it this way - you're either an idiot or a liar - which is it?
I knew this ****er was a scammer from the moment I saw the forum - look at what he just said:
"HYIP's are risky business...90%+ are scams I know...so why do I invest in hedgesyn...."TRUST"
90% are scams and STILL you expect people to give you money??? Yeah, I'm sure some do, they just had no clue 90% were scams (low figure - 110% would be more accurate) when they sent their money in.
You are incredibly stupid to admit that, and in the next lame scamming breath say 'but you can TRUST Hedgesyn because I've blah blah blah' - well who the **** CARES what YOU think, when no one knows WHO THE **** YOU ARE? A lying scammer would say the same thing.
Jesus, people like you really do exist
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 6:25:26 PM
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"HS could go belly up tommorrow.....the stock market could crash...the US dollar might tank.....world war might break out......but time will tell!!!"
You're a ****ing moron - why would it go belly-up tomorrow unless it was a scam?
"Waiting for bashers to let us know there money making strategies...."
Same as usual - get a ****ing job you cretinous dumb-ass. That, and saving in a diversified portfolio of laddered CDS, Treasuries and no-load mutual funds, as well as maintaining a 6-month cash cushion for emergencies in money markets.
"Do you "SOAR with the Eagles" or "Scratch with the Turkeys" "
Jesus, but you have to be in your teens, low twenties TOPS to put that old hackneyed quote out there - what's it supposed to do, inspire us to send money WE actually earned to you so you can skate off with it?
Steve, if that's who you are - I'd recommend you go **** yourself but I assume that won't be possible until you pull your head out of your ass.
LEYKIS101
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No. Posts: 248
Date Joined: 11/8/2002
Posted: 11/4/2003 7:14:37 PM
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"Scratch with the Turkeys" " - gobble gobble up your $$$
theinformer
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No. Posts: 103
Date Joined: 2/11/2003
Posted: 11/4/2003 8:31:16 PM
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Steve,
Let these guys wait and see how good hedgesyn is, i cant wait to see what they have to say this time next year!
SEV711
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No. Posts: 4
Date Joined: 11/4/2003
Posted: 11/4/2003 9:19:02 PM
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JAZZ, Seems like your good at "picking out scams" and "PROFANITY"....where you get all this wonderful talent???? Either you've LOST YOUR ASS alot or your just a nice guy looking out for everyone else.....let's here some insight form YOU.....doubt you can handle this challenge. Steve
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 10:32:21 PM
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Steve: what challenge? You send your minions out to pump up your scam, you yourself will admit to 90% of these being scams, and yet somehow, someway you think ALL of us are so stupid as to believe you?
Answer these questions in full for a start - you cannot say 'roll the dice' or 'life's a gamble' or any of the other trite non-answers I've been seeing:
(1) Where are the principals operating from? Meaning, what country? If in the United States, you might be in violation of the Federal Wire Act.
(2) If you're returning 10% guaranteed every 10 days, then you must be making at least that on your scalps to break-even. What is your current weekly average return on scalps, or even 10-day average?
(3) Approximately how much capital do you have, in thousands?
(4) Are you a listed business in any country?
(5) What legal assurances are in place (like a certified escrow account) to ensure that you will pay all principal balances in the event of unforseen circumstances?
(6) To the casual eye, your concept has every single one of the attributes of a Ponzi scheme, in which the money from new investors is used to pay off the old investors, which attracts more money from the old investors who encourage others to join - this includes the cut-off date. How can a reasonable person know for a fact that this is not one?
(7) If you've been making at least 10% compounded every 10 days for 3 years, even starting with a modest capital, shouldn't every one of you be rich by now?
theinformer
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Posted: 11/4/2003 10:46:51 PM
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Jazz,
Why do you ask us all these questions about HS as if we are running the joint, we are just investors, why not ask HS themselves.
And you need to learn what a ponzi scam really is, because you need fresh money to keep it alive.
How the hell is that happening when people can put anymore fresh money in?
Talking to you is like
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 10:56:07 PM
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informer: are you actually reading ANY of my posts! I DID ASK THOSE QUESTIONS AT HS, THEY WOULD NOT ANSWER THEM NOR POST THEM BECAUSE THEY PREVIEW ALL POSTS, CHANGE POSTS THAT ARE NOT POSITIVE ABOUT THEM, AND SIMPLY LIE. And in point of FACT, I posted that for STEVE who supposedly IS 'HS', not you - it's obvious by now you don't have a clue nor care in the world about any of the answers. Go to that monitor site referenced in a post above (search on 'monitor') and you'll see a lot of negative comments about these kind of scams.
You believe because you need to believe. If someone believes you and loses their money, they are out big-time. If someone believes a more rational point of view and listens to me and others who agree with me, they still have their money.
Go look at that monitor site and see how MANY scams are promising these kind of returns and more - all kinds of schemes to do so, all seemingly reasonable - but none stand the glare of examination by a thinking mind.
I'm out of here for tonight - I'll check back tomorrow for more entertaining nonsense from Steve.
SEV711
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No. Posts: 4
Date Joined: 11/4/2003
Posted: 11/4/2003 11:42:27 PM
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God ...divine intervention.... a post without profanity!!!! I respect JAZZ for that!!!
#1 I've had 2 investments destroyed by the feds...most recent a stock(SSSI-sedona software) was to merge with a gold mining company....a newsletter which I greatly respect made SSSI there number one stock pick for the year...bought 1000 share @8.00.....one week later SEC blocks the deal with little explaination(...they didn't like the plubicity)...basically I'm out 8k...would never trust HYIP in US...they couldn't exist anyway...I lost 20k in another legitamate firm that the CFTC legally strangled...the original owner died in proverty....yet I personally knew him(honest as anyone I knew).....HS is homequartered in NEW Zealand
#2 I don't do scalp bets they do....I understand arbitrage well...I mainly do my own investments selling options to speculators....easy to prey on FEAR
#3...my personal worth is over 6 figures and growing....my investment in HS is less than 2% of networth
#4 corporation in South Dakota....my corporation invest with HS and so do I....I could care less about refferral fees
#5 FDIC or SEC...boy they really protect you I lost 70K to fast talking stock brokers in 2000-2001.....if you need absolute guarantees take that 1% money market or 4% 30 year bond(...these are the sucker bets of the century).....really there are no guaratees...If you have a greaat guaranteed investment...let us all know...I take RISK..you have to....I know friend with 2 million 401k account at the peak of 2000.....value dropped 80 to 90%...some unretired...wonder why
#6) Why have cutoof date of 40 days from when you were first promoted? If you were a true ponzi....HELL extend the cut off date indefinitely...wait till the weight of the scam causes the collapse...I think you could go on 6 months or more.....go to Hegdesyn.com and logon to live help...have a personable discussion with Tony or Steve(...this is not me I live in SD)...then let us know...if your still skeptical....fine I understand...I take risk...I have lost big ....but won bigger
#7) your math is good...so is mine...yes you could own the whole world at that rate of compounding.....why are they cutting off their funds???They know their limitations.....HS won't last forever..nothing ever does ...but they'll treat all investors well...And I expect no loss of capital...no I don't expect to retire on them
Things they don't promise:forex traders.....I have tried to trade currencies and lost my ass...so does everyone else
50,000 star lock or parlay of the year...tried that more than once....learned my lesson.....when these Joker's call I just tell them I can pick better than them....usually true
oil drilling...I lost their once(10K)
hottest stock pick......well after losing over 70k to these idiots I finally did all my own investing.....best thing I ever did....I'm 80% focused on precious metals....but look at the 3 year charts of any gold/silver stock(eg. GSS, GG, GLG, RGLD,PAAS , SSRI, KGC, etc.)...love to sell call options to the speculators...better than an ATM for generating returns
Small seeds can produce BIG returns...I gave up telling people how to make money...I just pay attention to KARMA...what goes around comes around...if your out to screw someone over...you might be sucessful...but only in the short run.....I put my money in HS...I don't have a crystal ball...but I forcast next FEB04 I'll be discussing their value
Let's hear some of JAZZ's investing experiences...once we know where your coming from you might help everyone in the forum
GAMBLE_4heisman
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:56:22 PM
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jazz i respect you and commend your critical point of view. my thoughts are this:
we here are all gamblers. the hedgesyn opportunity is basically a 30-1 future bet right now with a year of investing.
so it's basically a gamble but one that seems to be worth maybe a dime or so. i wouldn't risk 10 grand for sure but i can spare 1000 bucks for this. by compounding 1 grand could be 30 grand, good buy student loans.
I'm not saying your wrong, you have pointed out every point where this looks fishy and if i was a betting man I would bet that you will ultimately be correct. but i think up to a certain point the reward is worth the risk.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 12:16:25 AM
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Popped back in and was stunned to find out Sev is not Steve, at least not one of the owners.
Let me make this clear, whoever you are: this is not about comparing investments, this is about judging investments - and in that regard, this HedgeSyn is ridiculous. My investments included what I outlined above, which is how I retired at the age of 47 this year - I worked hard for 26 years, I saved a lot, I invested in mutual funds, CDS, treasuries and most importantly, I didn't invest my money in Internet stocks during the bubble nor in schemes that promise a return of 10% every 10 days, because I am not prone to falling for scams and bad investments that you've clearly outlined for all of us that you ARE. I have no use for speculators personally.
People, listen to what this guy just posted:
(1) "would never trust HYIP in US...they couldn't exist anyway..."
Of course they couldn't - because they are by their nature SCAMS. Ponzis and pyramids are outlawed in the United States - here's hoping the countries who haven't outlawed those yet will do so soon.
(2) "I mainly do my own investments selling options to speculators....easy to prey on FEAR"
It's also easy to prey on GREED, isn't it? That's what these scams are doing.
Basically, you've outlined that you are a wild-eyed speculator who'll take a chance at anything, and your writing proves it. Fantastic, terrific - good for you.
But if you honestly think that I would believe a WORD of what you or your pals over there at HedgeSyn are going to say, you are heavily medicated. The whole point of having the gray matter between the ears is to actually use it in making decisions, interpreting the world around you, and comprehending not only complex matters but the simple stuff, like the sun will rise tomorrow, the sky is blue, and if someone promises you an unbelievable rate of return if you'll just hand them over your money in a foreign country for a scheme you cannot possibly know the details of nor believe a word that is said and that an apple will jump up off the floor and spit cider in your ear, then you can safely bet the following 2 things will happen: you will lose your money, and you'll end up with an earful of cider.
We already have you on record admitting 90% of these are scams. I am unsure at this point how to further communicate the simple, oh-so-simple fact that it is impossible to tell this scheme from a Ponzi - and I'm certainly not the only one who thinks so, I simply have more time on my hands to be this persistent in this forum.
I'll answer one other thing before I go: perhaps the reason your pals are closing this so early is BECAUSE it might convince people THIS one is not a Ponzi scheme.
This discussion simply goes round in circles - your pals over there have manufactured posts and altered posts in a primitive, laughable attempt to make their site look good. It's amateur hour, Steve, and I'd be quite embarrassed to be with such low-level scammers who can't even get out of the toilet long enough during the day to man the 'Live Person' feature.
But hey, you're a world-class speculator, a real world-beater, you go get 'em, honcho, ring up those great returns and let us know all the details. And if those returns don't turn up, WHO CARES, because you and your pals and all their ghostly friends can claim they are anyway - it's the INTERNET, remember, you can be and do whatever you want to do!!!
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 12:24:01 AM
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Gamble: **** it, man, throw the whole 10 grand in while you're at it, good for a penny, good for a pound, I always say!
Seriously, Gamble, you're exactly the prey they and others like them are looking for. According to that monitor site, a lot of these outfits have simply vanished with the money, some operating out of places like Russia. Do yourself a favor and think, man. Past that I cannot offer you any other advice other than what I've posted - except perhaps if this is such a great deal, shouldn't it be able to pass the scrutiny of your parents? And if you're embarrassed to tell them, why would that be? Because perhaps you know otherwise? Listen to that part of yourself, this isn't supposed to be a 'gamble', it's supposed to be guaranteed - but they see you coming from miles away, all they need do is open a web site, post the bullshit, and wait for the suckers to flock in.
This is a scam INDUSTRY. READ the posts above! Go here and see similar sites promising the same or better returns with different schemes - PLEASE USE YOUR MIND!
Gamble: here's the monitor site ... www.hyipmonitor.com
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 12:51:49 AM
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One final thing - that 'monitor' site is a good deal more open than the Berlin Wall over at Hedgesyn, but it operates based on advertisements from these scam outfits, so naturally you're going to read some posts that extoll the virtues of those outfits, written by the scammers, their relatives, their ghosts, their pet monkeys, any damn thing they can get to type. Why do they do that? Because it WORKS! Because people respond to testimonials from other seemingly real peope, we're a social, gregarious species, we WANT to believe others.
But don't.
Good night.
SEV711
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Date Joined: 11/4/2003
Posted: 11/5/2003 1:47:13 AM
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Jazz,
I respect your response ...I may not agree with all of it ...but I especially respect the Fact that you're civil....I think we are both right in some concepts....
sure I might dump 20k here...something else always makes up for it
.....venture capital...stocks,futures or sold options(...
yes the best days to sell are into the greed factor)
.......I am a speculator and it's proved worthwhile...yet I am cautious at the same time....basically "I hate to lose" and that's taught me a lot.....I've been fooled more than once and now that I've learned the ropes I make money consistently at futures,stocks and options(my fortee), and so far HYIP's(my smallest investments by far)
I percieve wisdom in your post and maybe we'll both learn from each other
......
most HYIP are too good to be true or should I say 99.9999% are(I'm sure this is a good line for you to copy)
...but every so often that gold nugget shows up....much better odds than the stupid "powerball" tickets they sell around here...Best Wishes, Steve(sev711)
GAMBLE_4heisman
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Posted: 11/5/2003 2:36:38 AM
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thanks for the advice jazz, but as you have stated i like others are greedy. i haven't decided if i will test this yet.
jazz the parent line is a very good one bro, very good, almost scary, my parents, especially mom is always right about everything. period.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 9:33:39 AM
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Gamble: I was hoping that line would would give you pause - lol - but really, if a rational, non-gambling person you respect in your life tells you the same as I (and your Mom would be perfect), then you'd best take her advice if not mine.
Sev: well, you're right, that's a great line for me to copy"
"most HYIP are too good to be true or should I say 99.9999% are"
We've made progress, guys - we've got an apparent backer of HS now increasing his estimate of the scams in HYIPs from 90% to 99.9999% - which means you have a 0.01% chance that Hedgesyn is NOT a scam.
Those odds look good to you?
theinformer
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Posted: 11/5/2003 9:40:21 AM
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Gamble 4, good call on the future bet, yes i see it like this aswell.
Worth a go.
Jazz, I told you there are people on this forum that are investing, maybe you will be saying told you so next year, or they will be seeing you kick yourself in the arse.
Time will tell!
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 9:56:20 AM
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Here's another quote from Sev - you guys now understand what is going on yet?
"sure I might dump 20k here...something else always makes up for it.....venture capital...stocks,futures or sold options(...yes the best days to sell are into the greed factor)......."
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 9:58:20 AM
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informer: you're one pretty dense cat - you can read what Steve said and what I quoted above and still you flock - you'd make a perfect alpha lemming, all you need is for someone to show you the cliff.
SEV711
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Date Joined: 11/4/2003
Posted: 11/4/2003 6:05:15 PM
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...yes I really exist...I had my share of losers in life(everyone learns....)HYIP's are risky business...90%+ are scams I know...so why do I invest in hedgesyn...."TRUST"...I have work with members of hedgesyn for one year...they have only recomended two other investments to me....both yeilding triple digit returns....BASH all you want.....but with diversification in multiple high risk investments(stocks,options, futures, precious metals,etc....) I have out done any returns one could expect anywhere else
HS could go belly up tommorrow.....the stock market could crash...the US dollar might tank.....world war might break out......but time will tell!!!
Waiting for bashers to let us know there money making strategies....
Do you "SOAR with the Eagles" or "Scratch with the Turkeys"
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 6:19:26 PM
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GREAT first-time post!!! LMFAO!!!
You couldn't have posted a finer example of a clueless booster post - so pathetic, so lame, so totally without any FACTS whatsoever.
Let me put it this way - you're either an idiot or a liar - which is it?
I knew this ****er was a scammer from the moment I saw the forum - look at what he just said:
"HYIP's are risky business...90%+ are scams I know...so why do I invest in hedgesyn...."TRUST"
90% are scams and STILL you expect people to give you money??? Yeah, I'm sure some do, they just had no clue 90% were scams (low figure - 110% would be more accurate) when they sent their money in.
You are incredibly stupid to admit that, and in the next lame scamming breath say 'but you can TRUST Hedgesyn because I've blah blah blah' - well who the **** CARES what YOU think, when no one knows WHO THE **** YOU ARE? A lying scammer would say the same thing.
Jesus, people like you really do exist
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 6:25:26 PM
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"HS could go belly up tommorrow.....the stock market could crash...the US dollar might tank.....world war might break out......but time will tell!!!"
You're a ****ing moron - why would it go belly-up tomorrow unless it was a scam?
"Waiting for bashers to let us know there money making strategies...."
Same as usual - get a ****ing job you cretinous dumb-ass. That, and saving in a diversified portfolio of laddered CDS, Treasuries and no-load mutual funds, as well as maintaining a 6-month cash cushion for emergencies in money markets.
"Do you "SOAR with the Eagles" or "Scratch with the Turkeys" "
Jesus, but you have to be in your teens, low twenties TOPS to put that old hackneyed quote out there - what's it supposed to do, inspire us to send money WE actually earned to you so you can skate off with it?
Steve, if that's who you are - I'd recommend you go **** yourself but I assume that won't be possible until you pull your head out of your ass.
LEYKIS101
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Posted: 11/4/2003 7:14:37 PM
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"Scratch with the Turkeys" " - gobble gobble up your $$$
theinformer
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Posted: 11/4/2003 8:31:16 PM
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Steve,
Let these guys wait and see how good hedgesyn is, i cant wait to see what they have to say this time next year!
SEV711
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Posted: 11/4/2003 9:19:02 PM
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JAZZ, Seems like your good at "picking out scams" and "PROFANITY"....where you get all this wonderful talent???? Either you've LOST YOUR ASS alot or your just a nice guy looking out for everyone else.....let's here some insight form YOU.....doubt you can handle this challenge. Steve
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 10:32:21 PM
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Steve: what challenge? You send your minions out to pump up your scam, you yourself will admit to 90% of these being scams, and yet somehow, someway you think ALL of us are so stupid as to believe you?
Answer these questions in full for a start - you cannot say 'roll the dice' or 'life's a gamble' or any of the other trite non-answers I've been seeing:
(1) Where are the principals operating from? Meaning, what country? If in the United States, you might be in violation of the Federal Wire Act.
(2) If you're returning 10% guaranteed every 10 days, then you must be making at least that on your scalps to break-even. What is your current weekly average return on scalps, or even 10-day average?
(3) Approximately how much capital do you have, in thousands?
(4) Are you a listed business in any country?
(5) What legal assurances are in place (like a certified escrow account) to ensure that you will pay all principal balances in the event of unforseen circumstances?
(6) To the casual eye, your concept has every single one of the attributes of a Ponzi scheme, in which the money from new investors is used to pay off the old investors, which attracts more money from the old investors who encourage others to join - this includes the cut-off date. How can a reasonable person know for a fact that this is not one?
(7) If you've been making at least 10% compounded every 10 days for 3 years, even starting with a modest capital, shouldn't every one of you be rich by now?
theinformer
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Posted: 11/4/2003 10:46:51 PM
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Jazz,
Why do you ask us all these questions about HS as if we are running the joint, we are just investors, why not ask HS themselves.
And you need to learn what a ponzi scam really is, because you need fresh money to keep it alive.
How the hell is that happening when people can put anymore fresh money in?
Talking to you is like
Jazz
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Posted: 11/4/2003 10:56:07 PM
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informer: are you actually reading ANY of my posts! I DID ASK THOSE QUESTIONS AT HS, THEY WOULD NOT ANSWER THEM NOR POST THEM BECAUSE THEY PREVIEW ALL POSTS, CHANGE POSTS THAT ARE NOT POSITIVE ABOUT THEM, AND SIMPLY LIE. And in point of FACT, I posted that for STEVE who supposedly IS 'HS', not you - it's obvious by now you don't have a clue nor care in the world about any of the answers. Go to that monitor site referenced in a post above (search on 'monitor') and you'll see a lot of negative comments about these kind of scams.
You believe because you need to believe. If someone believes you and loses their money, they are out big-time. If someone believes a more rational point of view and listens to me and others who agree with me, they still have their money.
Go look at that monitor site and see how MANY scams are promising these kind of returns and more - all kinds of schemes to do so, all seemingly reasonable - but none stand the glare of examination by a thinking mind.
I'm out of here for tonight - I'll check back tomorrow for more entertaining nonsense from Steve.
SEV711
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:42:27 PM
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God ...divine intervention.... a post without profanity!!!! I respect JAZZ for that!!!
#1 I've had 2 investments destroyed by the feds...most recent a stock(SSSI-sedona software) was to merge with a gold mining company....a newsletter which I greatly respect made SSSI there number one stock pick for the year...bought 1000 share @8.00.....one week later SEC blocks the deal with little explaination(...they didn't like the plubicity)...basically I'm out 8k...would never trust HYIP in US...they couldn't exist anyway...I lost 20k in another legitamate firm that the CFTC legally strangled...the original owner died in proverty....yet I personally knew him(honest as anyone I knew).....HS is homequartered in NEW Zealand
#2 I don't do scalp bets they do....I understand arbitrage well...I mainly do my own investments selling options to speculators....easy to prey on FEAR
#3...my personal worth is over 6 figures and growing....my investment in HS is less than 2% of networth
#4 corporation in South Dakota....my corporation invest with HS and so do I....I could care less about refferral fees
#5 FDIC or SEC...boy they really protect you I lost 70K to fast talking stock brokers in 2000-2001.....if you need absolute guarantees take that 1% money market or 4% 30 year bond(...these are the sucker bets of the century).....really there are no guaratees...If you have a greaat guaranteed investment...let us all know...I take RISK..you have to....I know friend with 2 million 401k account at the peak of 2000.....value dropped 80 to 90%...some unretired...wonder why
#6) Why have cutoof date of 40 days from when you were first promoted? If you were a true ponzi....HELL extend the cut off date indefinitely...wait till the weight of the scam causes the collapse...I think you could go on 6 months or more.....go to Hegdesyn.com and logon to live help...have a personable discussion with Tony or Steve(...this is not me I live in SD)...then let us know...if your still skeptical....fine I understand...I take risk...I have lost big ....but won bigger
#7) your math is good...so is mine...yes you could own the whole world at that rate of compounding.....why are they cutting off their funds???They know their limitations.....HS won't last forever..nothing ever does ...but they'll treat all investors well...And I expect no loss of capital...no I don't expect to retire on them
Things they don't promise:forex traders.....I have tried to trade currencies and lost my ass...so does everyone else
50,000 star lock or parlay of the year...tried that more than once....learned my lesson.....when these Joker's call I just tell them I can pick better than them....usually true
oil drilling...I lost their once(10K)
hottest stock pick......well after losing over 70k to these idiots I finally did all my own investing.....best thing I ever did....I'm 80% focused on precious metals....but look at the 3 year charts of any gold/silver stock(eg. GSS, GG, GLG, RGLD,PAAS , SSRI, KGC, etc.)...love to sell call options to the speculators...better than an ATM for generating returns
Small seeds can produce BIG returns...I gave up telling people how to make money...I just pay attention to KARMA...what goes around comes around...if your out to screw someone over...you might be sucessful...but only in the short run.....I put my money in HS...I don't have a crystal ball...but I forcast next FEB04 I'll be discussing their value
Let's hear some of JAZZ's investing experiences...once we know where your coming from you might help everyone in the forum
GAMBLE_4heisman
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Posted: 11/4/2003 11:56:22 PM
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jazz i respect you and commend your critical point of view. my thoughts are this:
we here are all gamblers. the hedgesyn opportunity is basically a 30-1 future bet right now with a year of investing.
so it's basically a gamble but one that seems to be worth maybe a dime or so. i wouldn't risk 10 grand for sure but i can spare 1000 bucks for this. by compounding 1 grand could be 30 grand, good buy student loans.
I'm not saying your wrong, you have pointed out every point where this looks fishy and if i was a betting man I would bet that you will ultimately be correct. but i think up to a certain point the reward is worth the risk.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 12:16:25 AM
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Popped back in and was stunned to find out Sev is not Steve, at least not one of the owners.
Let me make this clear, whoever you are: this is not about comparing investments, this is about judging investments - and in that regard, this HedgeSyn is ridiculous. My investments included what I outlined above, which is how I retired at the age of 47 this year - I worked hard for 26 years, I saved a lot, I invested in mutual funds, CDS, treasuries and most importantly, I didn't invest my money in Internet stocks during the bubble nor in schemes that promise a return of 10% every 10 days, because I am not prone to falling for scams and bad investments that you've clearly outlined for all of us that you ARE. I have no use for speculators personally.
People, listen to what this guy just posted:
(1) "would never trust HYIP in US...they couldn't exist anyway..."
Of course they couldn't - because they are by their nature SCAMS. Ponzis and pyramids are outlawed in the United States - here's hoping the countries who haven't outlawed those yet will do so soon.
(2) "I mainly do my own investments selling options to speculators....easy to prey on FEAR"
It's also easy to prey on GREED, isn't it? That's what these scams are doing.
Basically, you've outlined that you are a wild-eyed speculator who'll take a chance at anything, and your writing proves it. Fantastic, terrific - good for you.
But if you honestly think that I would believe a WORD of what you or your pals over there at HedgeSyn are going to say, you are heavily medicated. The whole point of having the gray matter between the ears is to actually use it in making decisions, interpreting the world around you, and comprehending not only complex matters but the simple stuff, like the sun will rise tomorrow, the sky is blue, and if someone promises you an unbelievable rate of return if you'll just hand them over your money in a foreign country for a scheme you cannot possibly know the details of nor believe a word that is said and that an apple will jump up off the floor and spit cider in your ear, then you can safely bet the following 2 things will happen: you will lose your money, and you'll end up with an earful of cider.
We already have you on record admitting 90% of these are scams. I am unsure at this point how to further communicate the simple, oh-so-simple fact that it is impossible to tell this scheme from a Ponzi - and I'm certainly not the only one who thinks so, I simply have more time on my hands to be this persistent in this forum.
I'll answer one other thing before I go: perhaps the reason your pals are closing this so early is BECAUSE it might convince people THIS one is not a Ponzi scheme.
This discussion simply goes round in circles - your pals over there have manufactured posts and altered posts in a primitive, laughable attempt to make their site look good. It's amateur hour, Steve, and I'd be quite embarrassed to be with such low-level scammers who can't even get out of the toilet long enough during the day to man the 'Live Person' feature.
But hey, you're a world-class speculator, a real world-beater, you go get 'em, honcho, ring up those great returns and let us know all the details. And if those returns don't turn up, WHO CARES, because you and your pals and all their ghostly friends can claim they are anyway - it's the INTERNET, remember, you can be and do whatever you want to do!!!
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 12:24:01 AM
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Gamble: **** it, man, throw the whole 10 grand in while you're at it, good for a penny, good for a pound, I always say!
Seriously, Gamble, you're exactly the prey they and others like them are looking for. According to that monitor site, a lot of these outfits have simply vanished with the money, some operating out of places like Russia. Do yourself a favor and think, man. Past that I cannot offer you any other advice other than what I've posted - except perhaps if this is such a great deal, shouldn't it be able to pass the scrutiny of your parents? And if you're embarrassed to tell them, why would that be? Because perhaps you know otherwise? Listen to that part of yourself, this isn't supposed to be a 'gamble', it's supposed to be guaranteed - but they see you coming from miles away, all they need do is open a web site, post the bullshit, and wait for the suckers to flock in.
This is a scam INDUSTRY. READ the posts above! Go here and see similar sites promising the same or better returns with different schemes - PLEASE USE YOUR MIND!
Gamble: here's the monitor site ... www.hyipmonitor.com
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 12:51:49 AM
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One final thing - that 'monitor' site is a good deal more open than the Berlin Wall over at Hedgesyn, but it operates based on advertisements from these scam outfits, so naturally you're going to read some posts that extoll the virtues of those outfits, written by the scammers, their relatives, their ghosts, their pet monkeys, any damn thing they can get to type. Why do they do that? Because it WORKS! Because people respond to testimonials from other seemingly real peope, we're a social, gregarious species, we WANT to believe others.
But don't.
Good night.
SEV711
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Date Joined: 11/4/2003
Posted: 11/5/2003 1:47:13 AM
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Jazz,
I respect your response ...I may not agree with all of it ...but I especially respect the Fact that you're civil....I think we are both right in some concepts....
sure I might dump 20k here...something else always makes up for it
.....venture capital...stocks,futures or sold options(...
yes the best days to sell are into the greed factor)
.......I am a speculator and it's proved worthwhile...yet I am cautious at the same time....basically "I hate to lose" and that's taught me a lot.....I've been fooled more than once and now that I've learned the ropes I make money consistently at futures,stocks and options(my fortee), and so far HYIP's(my smallest investments by far)
I percieve wisdom in your post and maybe we'll both learn from each other
......
most HYIP are too good to be true or should I say 99.9999% are(I'm sure this is a good line for you to copy)
...but every so often that gold nugget shows up....much better odds than the stupid "powerball" tickets they sell around here...Best Wishes, Steve(sev711)
GAMBLE_4heisman
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Posted: 11/5/2003 2:36:38 AM
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thanks for the advice jazz, but as you have stated i like others are greedy. i haven't decided if i will test this yet.
jazz the parent line is a very good one bro, very good, almost scary, my parents, especially mom is always right about everything. period.
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 9:33:39 AM
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Gamble: I was hoping that line would would give you pause - lol - but really, if a rational, non-gambling person you respect in your life tells you the same as I (and your Mom would be perfect), then you'd best take her advice if not mine.
Sev: well, you're right, that's a great line for me to copy"
"most HYIP are too good to be true or should I say 99.9999% are"
We've made progress, guys - we've got an apparent backer of HS now increasing his estimate of the scams in HYIPs from 90% to 99.9999% - which means you have a 0.01% chance that Hedgesyn is NOT a scam.
Those odds look good to you?
theinformer
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Date Joined: 2/11/2003
Posted: 11/5/2003 9:40:21 AM
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Gamble 4, good call on the future bet, yes i see it like this aswell.
Worth a go.
Jazz, I told you there are people on this forum that are investing, maybe you will be saying told you so next year, or they will be seeing you kick yourself in the arse.
Time will tell!
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 9:56:20 AM
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Here's another quote from Sev - you guys now understand what is going on yet?
"sure I might dump 20k here...something else always makes up for it.....venture capital...stocks,futures or sold options(...yes the best days to sell are into the greed factor)......."
Jazz
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Posted: 11/5/2003 9:58:20 AM
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informer: you're one pretty dense cat - you can read what Steve said and what I quoted above and still you flock - you'd make a perfect alpha lemming, all you need is for someone to show you the cliff.
