"Make 10% on your money every 10 days."

dngu047 · Oct 31, 2003

It's mathematically impossible for them to do this. Consider the following...

They claim to make 10% on their bankroll every 10 days. Now, let's assume that the average scalp returns 1%. To make 10% you would therefore have to bet your bankroll ten times over. For example if your bankroll was $100,000, you'd have to turnover $1 million in 10 days, and holding 1% of that you'd make $10,000 which is 10% of your capital.

In case I've lost anyone, the summary is you have to turn over your bankroll ten times in ten days, that is you have to turnover your whole bankroll every single day!!

Now, given that they claim to keep their funds in over 20 sportsbooks, this is nearly impossible. The probability of finding a scalp at every single one of their outs every single day is basically zero.

Woody0 · Oct 31, 2003

They also claim to have been doing this privately as a syndicate of 12 for a total of 3 years.

So they should have already made plenty and have a huge bankroll...so why open it up to the public? Doesn't make much sense logically.

Thrillseeker · Oct 31, 2003

Just wait til they try to scalp out of the NABs, WagersParadises, Goliaths, BlackRhinos, and AcesGolds of the world...but your principal is NEVER at risk...ROTFLMMFAO!

Jazz · Oct 31, 2003

You know, we should organize a commando-style forum takeover at that joint, first guy posts some doubts and the rest of us agree, ask for financial statements, current capital, start point out shit like this, and then lay the coup de grace on them with the comparison to a Ponzi scheme - should be fun for laffs - I'm up for it but would have to be Monday, just to fvck with their heads

933412 · Oct 31, 2003

I placed soccer bets on some of the matches they are talking about. Those odds that they are listing are bogus. I saw nothing even remotely close to what they are claiming, even on the betting exchanges such as Betfair which have 100% books for most top flight English soccer matches.

e.g. They claim Chelsea -360 they were not available at anything above -600.

e.g. They claim Aston Villa +120 they were not available at anything above -140. etc. etc.

LogansRun · Oct 31, 2003

Jazz, great idea!!! LMAO!!!!

here's my first post:
"I love you guys! I just burned my mortgage papers last week and I have you to thank! I never knew making money on gambling was so easy. It's great we turned it around and I got my money out right after I got all my relatives and most of my co-workers to put in $2500 each. I was really starting to sweat those second mortgage payments and I hope they don't have to wait too too long before they get their PROFITS!!!! Thank you again!"

LEYKIS101 · Oct 31, 2003

Good idea Jazz. Im up for it. Check out their Miami vs. Chargers example. The conveniently list their "scalp" as having Miami before the venue change and SD after they moved it. Then, they come back and say "both bets were cancelled." Hmmm, sounds to me like the SD side (lost) shouldn't have been cancelled at all.

Woody0 · Oct 31, 2003

I agree regarding their NFL hedge. First they must have been one of the few to manage to make a bet with Canbet that day and then I suppose it was cancelled, like they said, although I was unable to see what Canbet did. The Betinternet bet of +205 would stand as it was posted after the venue change. They also aren't too sharp as Bet365 posted SDC at +215 with a reasonable limit as soon as the venue change was announced.

*******************************************************
Author: HedgeSyn
Date: 10-27-03 16:34

Here are some of our bets today:

GAME 1. NFL

San Diego Chargers $3.05 (+205) Betinternet
Miami Dolphins $1.61 (-165) Canbet
5.4% profit regardless of the result.
*******************************************************

Woody0 · Oct 31, 2003

Here's mine:

Author: Woody0
Date: 11-01-03 06:55

Why do you want the money for a 10 day period to return 10%? If you gave the option of a 30 day deposit the return would be 33%.

Crickey I've just figured that $100 would compound to well over $3000 inside a year, then it would be over $90,000 in 2 years and over $2,700,000 in 3 years! Unbelieveable.

Heck if you guys have been doing this for 3 years you must all be millionaires. So why do you want more syndicate members? Isn't it a little difficult to get all that money down at the books?

crazyivan24 · Nov 1, 2003

Wow - these guys are scalping

crazyivan24 · Nov 1, 2003

Wonder who would send these guys money - do you think they make a living of this!

Paulthomas · Nov 2, 2003

Hey Guys,

I have been with this site for 6 weeks now and have been paid so far every time.

They also suggest that after 8 weeks that you take out what you started with and roll with your winnings, now i am 8 days away from that point, what scam would tell you to take out what you started with?

Also I betted 4 of those soccer matches for a total profit of 22%, so I can back them up by saying those prices were correct.

Also you give examples of 1% per day arbs, their average arbis around 3% and they have like 20 of those a day.

I am glad I tried these guys out as so far so good. I challenge one of you guys to put in say $100, if they close up I will personally give you that money. In 8 weeks around end of year take out what you started with and go with the $60-70 that is left in the acc.

PT

JDeuce · Nov 2, 2003

One time a few years back, I had a local book who kept very sloppy and stale lines. He never really changed his lines from noon on through the day, and one day there was a baseball game where I think Atlanta was playing Montreal. Mr Local had the Braves at -130, but I was able to find Montreal offshore for +140. Of course I could have simply bet $1,000 on each team...and I'd have lost nothing if the Braves won, but would have won $100 if the Expos won. No risk propositions are nice, but I was sure there was a way to take advantage of that line so that I would win money no matter who won the game. I set up an excel spreadsheet and put the right formula in there, but (if I remember correctly) I found out I'd have had to bet something like $3k-$4k on each side just to make $40. I don't know if those numbers are exact, but they're pretty close.

I was only able to find that kind of discrepency once in a while...but not enough to make any kind of effort doing it. These guys are flat out lying if they claim they can do this on an almost daily basis that would be required to make this whole scheme work. They'd have to be betting single game amounts in the millions...and that would obviously raise the curiosity of the books taking the bets.

Paulthomas · Nov 2, 2003

JDuece,

Did you know www.oddsexchange.com alone put out 100 ARBS everyday with an average of around 4% profit.

That is JUST ONE SITE.

There is so much money to be made from this.

933412 · Nov 2, 2003

Oddsexchange dont put out a hundred arbs a month never mind a day. I looked into this a while back and found most of their "arbs" were produced by errors in their odds collecting software. Picking up half-time lines by mistake is a common one.

JDeuce is right the amount you have to put in to guarentee such a tiny profit makes it not worthwhile in my opinion.

Jazz · Nov 2, 2003

Paul: did you actually bother to extend the effort to read about Ponzi schemes??? Did you know that the one that netted $400 million in the U.S. in the 90's even fooled investment banks, and it went on for YEARS??? Can't you twig the meaning here at ALL???

OF COURSE you would be doing well in the first 6 weeks in a Ponzi scheme, if you actually are (but of course you could be nothing but a shill or more likely one of those partners) - THAT'S THE WHOLE FREAKING POINT OF IT!!! You get the suckers in, you pay them off with other idiots' money, and you do it long enough to build the greedy fools' confidence up to where they get friends and others to invest as well. Once you've got enough cash from these suckers, you 'disappear' your web site and it's adios, muchachos. As each successive week rolls around, and they're getting paid like clockwork, they can't stand it - the greed becomes overwhelming and they will often put a lot more into it, even convincing their loved ones to get in 'before it's too late and they are closed to new money'. And of course they will be your best advertisement, as the greed palpably rises from their skin like a virus and it infects those around them.

Anyone and I mean ANYONE joining or re-upping this after learning about Ponzi schemes deserves to have their life savings sucked out of them, including you, Paul. My God, man, years ago in New Jersey a next-door neighbor, an otherwise extremely smart woman, almost got sucked up into one of these, which requires you to recruit a number of people to put up (in this case) $2,000 to 'join' the club - nothing but a type of Ponzi called a 'pyramid' scheme, in which those first in (at the top of the pyramid) will reap a lot of profits before the scheme collapses, leaving those on the lowermost and far largest section of the pyramid out of their money. I successfully argued her out of it on a moral basis, since she was going to recruit her MOTHER, telling her if her friends and loved ones lost money in it, she was nothing but a thief. One of her friends apparently made $34,000, but of course the perpetrators of this scheme were busted by police and her friend got in trouble. These schemes are ALL illegal.

Bottom-line: IMO you're a greedy sucker if you're going to join a site like this after having been fore-warned, and if you do and come back crying about it, I'll just laugh.

Paulthomas · Nov 2, 2003

Time will tell guys.

Jazz · Nov 2, 2003

Forgot one other small little detail: how in the world does anyone know for a fact that most if not ALL of those 'happy' forum 'posters' are not simply just various bogus identities created by the web-site owners to suck in real people?

Incredible what people will fall for

... live by this rule and you won't get ass-burgled: "If it seems too good to be true, it usually (almost ALWAYS) is"

Another: "A fool and his money are soon parted"

IntuitionBET · Nov 2, 2003

Jazz - IF they are doing what they say they are doing, and IF they are mildly successful this may work. But there are to many "IF's" in the equation.

The big question is IF this really works they must be making more than 10% of what they invest over the 10 days in order to share "the take" with the little investors. And when they build a big enough bankroll what do they need us for?
And IF there continues to be games they can scalp/hedge how long can this go on for?

Great idea IF it works but the guy running it is in a much better position than anyone investing in it.

JDeuce · Nov 2, 2003

PT,

Ask yourself two very simple questions:

1. What is the motive for a business to want to do this? The answer in this case is, of course, money. If they can offer you a 10% return on your investment, my guess is they'd have to be making 20% or more on whatever principle you deposit. They'd give you the 10% and keep at least another 10% for themselves. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth their time. They're not going to simply do you a favor for free. Realistically...what are the chances someone could find a way to earn 20% interest in such a short time?

2. If this works for them, why bother letting other people in on it? Why take the risk of running into problems with law enforcement, the headache of tracking numerous customers, etc? A smart person would just sit back and watch money pour in for himself...not for anyone else...