Israel-Hamas situation

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Are you really saying that their goal is to obliterate 1.7 million palestinians? You've been listening to too much Al Jazeera. Either that or NPR. But they're not going to keep turning the other cheek forever, pal.

Nope - they ain't making Jews like Jesus anymore.

The shit superwhoever he is posts is ridiculous, straight out of Hamas propaganda. If the weaponry were reversed for 5 minutes every Jew AND Arab living in Israel would be dead.

In Jenin Israelis went house to house fighting terrorists to avoid civilian death on the other side, and 13 soldiers were killed when a child lured them into a booby trap.

One side has the power to destroy the other, but not the will. The other has the will, but not the power.
 

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Condoleeza Rice pulled the plug on the financing for Israeli settlements in Gaza.
It was US aid munny that bankrolled those settlements.

We've been through this before in here. Old news.

Wrong, as always! It was the doves in the Israeli gov't who hoped giving up land [appeasing terror] would cause the terrorists to stop trying to blow them up. As always, appeasement doesn't work when you're fighting an enemy who wants your death, not your land.
 
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Wrong, as always! It was the doves in the Israeli gov't who hoped giving up land [appeasing terror] would cause the terrorists to stop trying to blow them up. As always, appeasement doesn't work when you're fighting an enemy who wants your death, not your land.
Why do you care so much if you dont mind me asking?.Maybe you have close relatives over there if so I appologise for the question... You were born here werent you?... If so that makes you an American not an Israeli ... I am of German decent & I could care less about what happens in Germany....Dont you get turned off by hearing about this all the time... I know I sure do.
 

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RR no one insists you enter the thread if you don't care. If you paid attention and absorbed you would know radical islamic terrorism threatens the entire world. But you're too hung up on Silverstein and demolition.

And yes, I have close relatives over there. And I have been there. And the Arabs living in Israel treated me just as warmly as the Jews. They are happy to be there.

Israel is the defining moral issue of our time:
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/archives/000631.html
 
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RR no one insists you enter the thread if you don't care. If you paid attention and absorbed you would know radical islamic terrorism threatens the entire world. But you're too hung up on Silverstein and demolition.

And yes, I have close relatives over there. And I have been there. And the Arabs living in Israel treated me just as warmly as the Jews. They are happy to be there.

Israel is the defining moral issue of our time:
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/archives/000631.html
Of our time?... You can say that again Ive been hearing about bloodshed over there on a regular basis since Ive been a kid & Im 51 years old....I just get tired of hearing about it & paying for it & I know Im in good Company & not blaming any one group & in my view they are both at fault........ Carry on & thanks for answering.
 
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Of our time?... You can say that again Ive been hearing about bloodshed over there on a regular basis since Ive been a kid & Im 51 years old....I just get tired of it & I know Im in good Company & not blaming any one group & in my view they are both at fault........ Carry on & thanks for answering.
they are both at fault, i agree.
 

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War is horrible, so for some it's easy to blame both sides.....

Well we tried to show you DH, the difference between aggression and the response but for some reason you refuse to see. Whether you believe it or not Hamas does not care for the innocents on either side while most Israelis grieve the bloodshed on both sides. Now why is Israel at fault for trying to keep Hamas rockets from falling on its civilians?

And RR, you're the big BORDER guy on this site, 632 pages worth. Doesn't Israel have the right to a secure border?
 
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War is horrible, so for some it's easy to blame both sides.....

Well we tried to show you DH, the difference between aggression and the response but for some reason you refuse to see. Whether you believe it or not Hamas does not care for the innocents on either side while most Israelis grieve the bloodshed on both sides. Now why is Israel at fault for trying to keep Hamas rockets from falling on its civilians?

And RR, you're the big BORDER guy on this site, 632 pages worth. Doesn't Israel have the right to a secure border?
What Israel did wrong is bomb one of their schools just because hamas bombed (rocketed) one of theirs....Regardless of whether there were any perpetrators at the school or not doesnt make it right theres still kids there so the whole thing goes on & on & thus the reason for disgust with both sides...Yes they do have a right to secure borders & they have a right to exist,maybe they shouldnt have given the land back in the first place.... To me it's a lost cause there will never be peace over there.
 

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War is horrible, so for some it's easy to blame both sides.....

Well we tried to show you DH, the difference between aggression and the response but for some reason you refuse to see. Whether you believe it or not Hamas does not care for the innocents on either side while most Israelis grieve the bloodshed on both sides. Now why is Israel at fault for trying to keep Hamas rockets from falling on its civilians?

And RR, you're the big BORDER guy on this site, 632 pages worth. Doesn't Israel have the right to a secure border?
who are "we". are "we" the sole authority on this subject??
 
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War is horrible, so for some it's easy to blame both sides.....

Well we tried to show you DH, the difference between aggression and the response but for some reason you refuse to see. Whether you believe it or not Hamas does not care for the innocents on either side while most Israelis grieve the bloodshed on both sides. Now why is Israel at fault for trying to keep Hamas rockets from falling on its civilians?

And RR, you're the big BORDER guy on this site, 632 pages worth. Doesn't Israel have the right to a secure border?
who are "we". are "we" the sole authority on this subject?
 

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again, i admit that israel has a right to protect its citizens. i am not debating that. also, if you missed it, i condemn what hamas is doing. having said that, i believe that the retaliation is way out of proportion.
 
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Arabs and the Israelis have been fighting since time immemorial over that tiny plot of land called Israel. Their battle is not one of flesh and blood, but of spiritual things. The Bible states that the last great battle will pit Israel against the rest of the Middle East and its allies. How did it all begin and why have they remained mortal enemies for thousands of years?

<HR SIZE=3>It began in Genesis 16 when God made His Covenant with Abraham's son Isaac, and in essence, sent the half-brother Ishmael on his merry way to become "a geat nation" (the present day Arabs, most of whom are Muslim). In Genesis 16:13-16 (years before Abraham's second son Isaac was born) the Angel of the Lord told Abraham's servant Hagar that her son Ishmael would be "...a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand will be against him; and he will live to the east of all his brothers."
Genesis 17: <SUP>18</SUP> And Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before You!" <SUP>19</SUP> But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. <SUP>20</SUP> As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. <SUP>21</SUP> But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year."
Conflict between the two sons of Abraham began from the very start. Genesis 21:9 says the conflict began just after Isaac was weaned: "Now Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, mocking."
Galatians 4 tells us that Ishmael had been "born according to the flesh" while Isaac had been "born according to the promise". Isaac replaced Ishmael as the favored son and heir. This, of course, made Ishmael jealous and bitter. As a result, he mocked and disdained his half-brother. Eventually the situation became so intolerable that Abraham's wife Sarah demanded that Ishmael and his Egyptian concubine mother, Hagar, be expelled permanently from Abraham's family.
But the Lord loved Hagar and her son, and had mercy upon them. God promised Hagar that her son would beget twelve princes who would become a great nation. Ishmael then went to live in the wilderness region of Hejaz in what became known as the Arabian Peninsula. He indeed had twelve patriarchal sons who became associated with the peoples known as Midianites, Edomites, Egyptians and Assyrians. The Bible and Islamic tradition both agree that Ishmael became the leader of all the great desert peoples of the Middle East.
God provided many opportunities in this story for redemption of bad situations created mostly out of disobedience and lack of faith. Abraham had agreed to impregnate Hagar at the request of his wife Sarah, even though God had told Abraham and Sarah that they would one day have their own son. To be fair to Ishmael, God provided him a great kingdom of his own "to the east" of his brother, but it was never enough. Ishmael's descendants have always been jealous that Isaac's descendants were able to claim the full inheritance of Abraham.
This jealousy and resentment created an unparalleled hate which has set off wars and atrocities for four thousand years. It was the title deed to the land of Israel, which God promised to Abraham's lineage, that has been the source of the friction between the Jews and the Arabs right up to the present day.
Muslims believe the Jews changed and distorted the Bible in order to establish themselves as the heirs of Abraham's Covenant blessings. However, they fail to explain how the New Testament clearly teaches that the Covenant was made with Isaac and his descendants.
According to Islamic tradition, Abraham had eight sons rather than two who were reared in Mecca, not Hebron. They insist it was Ishmael, not Isaac, whom Abraham was about to sacrifice on Mount Moriah when an angel stopped him. According to the Koran, the Abrahamic covenant, with its promises - including the title deed to the land of Israel - was passed down to the Arabs through Ishmael, rather than to the Jews through Isaac.
If one believes that the Old and New Testaments were written under the inspiration of the Spirit of God, then there is no question that Israel is the Promised Land of the Jews. God's words to Abraham in Genesis are some 2,500 years older than the creation of Islam (whose "prophet" Mohammed was a murdering, thieving pedophile who "married" a seven year old child - but that's another story).
The bottom line is, God fulfilled His promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. And He is about to use the consequential warfare between the two brothers in order to bring about His "end time" scenario....

<CENTER><TABLE cellPadding=10 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#ffffd9>Note: We at The Refiner's Fire believe God is using the spirit of Islam to make His end time prophecies happen. Why? Because, as a Muslim e-mail pen-pal of ours recently wrote: "Muslims HATE Jews and Christians and all they stand for, including Capitalism." The Bible says that in the end times, believers in Yeshua will be beheaded for their belief (Rev. 20:4). And who are the ONLY people in the entire universe who still behead? The Muslims! They have become the world's worst enemy, as evidenced by the myriad terrorist attacks not only on Israel but the entire world. And the worst is yet to come.....

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>


Author Hal Lindsay recently wrote the following: ....This is exactly the situation that continues to develop in the Middle East. The world has been dragged into the ancient conflict between Isaac and Ishmael in spite of its best efforts to stay out of it. This conflict that has raged between these two half brothers for 4,000 years is destined to ignite the last war of the world, according to the Bible prophets.
Muhammad, a descendant of Ishmael, has brought over one billion people on to his side of this ancient conflict through the religion of Islam. From the time he started the Muslim religion, the dimensions of the conflict began to enlarge. When his followers laid claim to Jerusalem as the their third holiest site, the die was cast for Jerusalem to become the trigger of the war of Armageddon, just as the prophet Zechariah predicted 2500 years ago. Zechariah prophesied "Jerusalem would become a burdensome stone for all the peoples" and that "All nations of the earth will be gathered [for war] because of it." (Zechariah 12:3)
We are eyewitnesses to this taking place right now.
The other major spheres of power that will be drawn into this final war are clearly predicted.
Ezekiel predicts that a nation to the extreme north of reborn Israel will become Israel's arch enemy. It will be a nation with a vast arsenal with which it will arm all of the Muslim nations. Russia is the only nation to the extreme north of Israel. And they are descended from the tribe of Magog through the Scythians, just as Ezekiel predicted. God Himself commands this power from the extreme north to take command of the confederated Muslim forces and lead them in an all out attack against Israel. This attack is the first battle of the war of Armageddon.
The Book of Revelation predicts another sphere of power that will enter this war with 200 million soldiers. This power bloc is called "the Kings of the East". They will move into the Middle East and attack once the war has started. The Bible says they will wipe out a third of the world's population.
The fourth power bloc is the Western force led by a revived form of the Roman Empire. Daniel and the Apostle John both predict this power in great detail. It will begin when a great leader springs up in Rome and takes the strongest 10 Nations of the EU and uses them to form his power base.
Excellent read :103631605
 

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much as i hate to say it, one thing that makes the whole israel situation interesting is that people seem to break from party lines/have their own opinion
 

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One side has the power to destroy the other, but not the will. The other has the will, but not the power.

The latter is certainly true, thank goodness.

But the former seems preposterous. How would one propose that Israel "destroy" the millions of Islamic people who detest and threaten them?
 

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again, i admit that israel has a right to protect its citizens. i am not debating that. also, if you missed it, i condemn what hamas is doing. having said that, i believe that the retaliation is way out of proportion.

Now let me ask you a question. What is "Proportionate?'
 

Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit
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opinions are fine, after you know the facts mr punter
 

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