Is hydrogen the fuel of the future?

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My own opinion is, that it is.

The economic payback is phenomenal.
Energy with no pollution in a world stuffed full of energy hungry people.
(plus theres some greenhouse CO2 thingy that is eliminated at the same time)

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Is hydrogen the fuel of the future?

By Maggie Shiels
San Francisco

America's first fuel-cell-powered car
Hydrogen is the new buzz word as oil companies and car makers back the view that it will be the successor to oil in the coming decades.
The drive towards a hydrogen future was given a real boost when President George Bush unveiled a development plan, worth $1.7bn, in his State of the Union address, to help the US lead the world in developing clean hydrogen-powered automobiles.

Now just weeks after that commitment comes a significant partnership between General Motors (GM) and Shell to provide a taste of the future.

GM says it will provide a fleet of six fuel-cell Zafira mini vans at $1m each for people to test drive while Shell will install hydrogen pumps at one of its Washington gas stations.

The companies say they expect about 10,000 people to ride in the vehicles over the next two years.

Shell Hydrogen chief executive Donald Huberts said his company wants to demonstrate the practical and everyday use of hydrogen fuel.

Within reach

Experimental fleets of hydrogen cars built by Toyota and Honda have been operating in California since last year, but the GM/Shell partnership is seen as pivotal because it is an oil company and an auto maker joining forces.


The benefit and flexibility of this technology is so powerful that it will open up hundreds of new markets around the globe

Larry Burns, GM

Of course the fact that the price of a barrel of crude has touched 12-year highs in recent weeks, coupled with the war in Iraq provides further urgency to finding alternative fuel sources.

In hydrogen vehicles, an electric motor powers the wheels.

A chemical reaction inside a unit called a fuel cell - usually between hydrogen and oxygen - creates electricity for the motor.

The only emission is water vapour - although the air pollution is only moved up the supply chain, and occurs when hydrogen is produced using oil or gas.

Some believe with the right commitment and investment, hydrogen cars could be ubiquitous in as little as 10 years.

Independence

Peter Schwartz of the Global Business Network charts trends and shifts in the worlds of energy, business, technology and government.

In an article for Wired magazine, he has devised a five-point-plan to build the hydrogen economy so that people can continue their love affair with the car.


Peter Schwartz: people can continue to love their cars

Mr Schwartz told BBC Online an investment of $100bn could shift the balance of power from foreign oil producers to US energy consumers within a decade.

By 2013 a third of all new cars sold could be hydrogen-powered, 15% of the national gas stations could pump hydrogen, and the US could get more than half its energy from domestic sources, he said.

The race is on to bring the first fuel cell vehicle to market - at the National Hydrogen Conference in Washington GM declared that it is poised to become the first automaker to sell a million fuel cell vehicles in the next decade.

"We will remain competitive only by providing the technology that customers expect and deserve - today and tomorrow," said Rick Wagoner, GM president and chief executive.

Research on fuel cells is being taken so seriously at GM that more than 500 scientists and engineers on three continents are working on this new technology.

"The benefit and flexibility of this technology is so powerful that it will literally open up hundreds of new markets around the globe," said Larry Burns, GM vice-president of research and development.

To date DaimlerChrysler, Ford and GM have spent roughly $2bn developing fuel cell cars, trucks and buses with the first products due to hit the market this year.

Ford Chairman William Clay Ford Jr has proclaimed that fuel cells will finally end the 100-year reign of the internal combustion engine.

Financial sense

For the customer, cost is king.

Chris Birroni-Bird, one of GM's leading fuel cell experts, said the gas-powered engine on a $20,000 vehicle costs about $3,000.

A hydrogen fuel-cell engine on the same automobile would cost $30,000.

But Jeff Serfass, president of the National Hydrogen Association, said you must include the cost of fuel in the comparison.

"You have to compare the cost of hydrogen combined with the efficiency of the fuel cell, which is about twice as efficient as today's engine, to give you a competitive cost per mile," he said.

Futurist Peter Schwartz says the genie is now out of the bottle and the need for hydrogen to replace oil cannot be ignored any longer.

Scientists estimate that the days of cheap oil will end anywhere between 2007 to 2040.

The stakes are high and energy independence bears directly on US self-determination.

The turmoil in the Middle East, the growing national security budget, the promise of technology that needs only a financial push, appear to make this the right moment to launch an Apollo-scale commitment to hydrogen power.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2880975.stm
 

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Unfortunately, over and above the huge cost of production (which will of course come down with mass production) the hydrogen requires expenditure of power to produce, which is usually going to be fossil fuels. So you have the energy being consumed and pollution created regardless, even if it is reduced.

Hydrogen may well be the future of transport, as in the distant future, but in the meantime hybrids are a far better option -- apallingly, the hybrid techology has been around and un-utilised for decades (the first hybrid of which I am aware was a Volkswagen bug featured in Popular Mechanics in the 1950's.)


Phaedrus
 

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throwing a ball into the air....

I think that the nuclear option should be re-explored for hydrogen conversion.

I don't think that enough people (engineers, or engineer orientated people) have had access to the problems of the Nuclear industry.
Its a bit of a closed shop.

The car industry had all sorts of solutions by the start of the 20th century because of its accessability by huge numbers of engineering orientated people, but the engineering technology didn't exist to utilise all of those ideas that were spawned. i.e. The overhead camshaft had to wait because of soft metals so pushrods/rockers were the standard valve gear for years.

I also think that we lack the number of 'solutions orientated individuals' who would try to tackle this issue, should the knowledge be more freely available to people.
Specialisation (each person has his 'job') has created disadvantages IMO.

In earlier decades, it was far easier for a newbie (a smart dude newbie) to get seriously involved in an area of expertise.

Like Frank Whittle. We had only been flying for about 20 years when he formed his solutions.
20 years is NOTHING.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/whittle_frank.shtml

And he was 25 years old when he patented it...

[This message was edited by eek on June 24, 2004 at 11:43 PM.]
 

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Wow, that's the second time this week you have inadvertantly championed the cause of capitalism. Maybe there's hope for you yet.

I'm sure you will disavow this, but only because you are completely clueless as to the nature and tenants of capitalism. Trust me here -- you are on the right path, and should stay the course.


Phaedrus
 

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And don't forget this bad boy, the ultimate hybrid of all time: the Liebherr T 282 B ...

cg--Liebherr-ME-1898-1596-1--W415-D2004-02-02T11-33-28-ID1921.jpg


From an interview with the T 282 B's designer, Francis Bartley:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Just how big is this truck?

Well, empty it weighs in at 224 tons (203 tonnes), it's 24 foot 3 inches (7.4 metres) tall over the canopy, 47 feet 6 inches (14.5 metres) long with a wheelbase of 21 foot 6 inches (6.6 metres). And it can carry loads of 400 tons (365 tonnes). So that's an overall weight when loaded of 624 tons (568 tonnes).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All powered by a diesel-electric hyrbid that produces 3,650 horsepower.


icon_eek.gif



Phaedrus
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Wow, that's the second time this week you have inadvertantly championed the cause of capitalism. Maybe there's hope for you yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats simpleton thinking P.(Or agenda ridden?)
The Nazis invented all sorts of weird and wonderful chit.
They led the way in loads of stuff.

Does that make Nazism a good system?
(plenty of government intervention there).
Or is it just the the Germans are Smart, no matter what system they have.

Other simplistic slagging off could run along the lines of:- because of events like Enron and Bhopal(union carbide) capitalism is therefore a bad system.
icon_rolleyes.gif


But these are not smart original arguments.
They're just posturing.
 

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Don't worry, I still think you're an intellectually dishonest, morally vacuous, sub-human piece of shit ... it's just that in the above post, you are all but creaming your Lord & Taylor drawers over the spirit of entrepreneurialism, which is the great engine of capitalism.

Yes, the Nazis came upwith a lot of good science. We liked them so much, we bought the company so to speak, with Operation Paperclip. No, that doesn't make the Nazis a swell bunch of folks (although I'm sure many individual Nazis before during and after WWII were very decent people, loving parents and husbands, etc.)

I will modify my comment to say you are praising the entrepreneurial spirit as applies to scientific research. Will that make you feel better if you're bubbling effusiveness is seperated from filthy lucre?


(jackass)


Phaedrus
 

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There is no doubt that hydrogen will be the fuel of the future. The hydrocarbons in oil are too valuable as feedstock for petrochemicals, plastics etc. to be merely burnt.

Hydrogen will be produced from water. It is wrong to think that pollution will merely be moved up the supply chain by burning oil to provide the power to extract hydrogen.

The cleanest production method is to use bacteria that produce hydrogen. Some bacteria can even be powered by sunlight. It is possible to place a bacterial generator within a vehicle as an integrated unit.

The 21st century and beyond will rely upon genetically engineered micro-organisms for many functions, just as yeast has been serving our beer and wine needs for centuries.
 

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