Is anyone winning on online poker?

[ProPokerPlayer]

Yet another trick is to have a bankroll large enough to handle the swings

This is really the secret to poker....you cannot win if your playing with scared money....CANNOT!!!!! I was in a tourny just awhile ago, paying 220...with 221 left i had to put up the BB which put me all-in...and i had 23os....i made 2 pr and won the pot! then i did something i been wanting to do for awhile but never have had the balls.....i started swinging for the fences....any 2 remotely connected cards i went all in, i won a few hands and got several more by default..then i got a run of good hands and within 20 hands of being almost put out on the bubble i had over 80,000 in chips.......i finished in 55th place.....for once in my life i wasnt worried AT ALL about losing...i just went for it in ultra Gus Hansen style and it paid off...when i win at the B&M its when i have money to spare..i go with a tight bankroll i lose every time....
Stay within ur limits and YOU WILL WIN!!! go right now and on the .02 tables, i bet you'll win.....you can finally call those guys who raise big when you KNOW they didnt get a piece of the flop and you got 2nd pr......

And 1 more thing...i gotta post this hand......im probably well close to a million hands played by now and i dont think i've ever seen this before.....AND whats great is..I wasn't on the losing end for a change!!!!!!!!!!!!

***** Hand History for Game 3669892094 *****
0/0 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 20706945) - Sat Mar 04 22:06:12 EST 2006
Table $20K Gtd.(619264) Table 38 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: ManySchools (3281)
Seat 2: allynlong (4434)
Seat 3: aka_Bluewolf (12420)
Seat 4: upsguy8022 (2710)
Seat 5: stl_23 (11730)
Seat 6: bocasman1 (10038)
Seat 7: davidro111 (22872)
Seat 8: FullerOB (8210)
Seat 9: gopsiliev (4905)
Seat 10: doctor2211 (6341)
ManySchools posts small blind (300)
allynlong posts big blind (600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to allynlong [ Kd, Ts ]
aka_Bluewolf folds.
upsguy8022 folds.
stl_23 folds.
bocasman1 folds.
davidro111 folds.
FullerOB folds.
gopsiliev raises (4905) to 4905
gopsiliev is all-In.
doctor2211 folds.
ManySchools folds.
allynlong calls (3834)
allynlong is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $9168 with allynlong
Creating Side Pot 1 with $471 with gopsiliev
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7d, 7c, 7h ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 7s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 4h ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 9168 | Side Pot 1: 471
Board: [ 7d 7c 7h 7s 4h ]

ManySchools balance 2981, lost 300 (folded)
allynlong balance 9168, bet 4434, collected 9168, net +4734 [ Kd Ts ] [ four of a kind, sevens with king kicker -- Kd,7d,7c,7h,7s ]
aka_Bluewolf balance 12420, didn't bet (folded)
upsguy8022 balance 2710, didn't bet (folded)
stl_23 balance 11730, didn't bet (folded)
bocasman1 balance 10038, didn't bet (folded)
davidro111 balance 22872, didn't bet (folded)
FullerOB balance 8210, didn't bet (folded)
gopsiliev balance 471, bet 4905, collected 471, lost -4434 [ Qc Jc ] [ four of a kind, sevens -- Qc,7d,7c,7h,7s ]
doctor2211 balance 6341, didn't bet (folded)


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[QuickLearner]

You called a push with KTo? P3....for shame.

Wait, was this during your Gus Hanson phase?

 

[ProPokerPlayer]

Actually , this guy was donkey who had been going all-in with crap and then showing it when nobody called...i had a short stack and figured if i prd either card id beat wat he probably was holding..this time he did have QJ put still it was a 50-50 deal....when i made my big run was later on in the tourny when there was an anty involved

 

[ConansHammer]

Im winning

 

[707782]

On average, I'm winning......................before I played online Blackjack, and then I can't control my emotion and played stupid poker, and lose everything.

 

[peskypup]

mmm

mmm i hadn't realised by returns were all that special. However I feel I have a lot to learn at this game and still make at least one mistake per hour, like yesterday calling AK for 2 bets with AQ just because the guy I was calling had raised the previous pot big style with 10-10 when K and Q had flopped.

Having said that I find myself very often laying down hands on the flop which later prove to be the second best hand at the table, whereas folk with weaker hands than the one I laid down have gone to the river. So I guess that's where I am making my money.

I intend to carry on at this level until my number of mistakes is a bit lower and I feel I understand the dynamics a bit better. I am strong on a table of 10 or 9 players and very strong on 3 or less but feel I can improve a lot when there are 4 to 8 players left in.

I'd sooner do my learning at low stakes tables and learn my trade there before attempting to move up. A long slow learning process worked well for me in sports betting 4 years ago for minimal risk.

 

[degenerategambler]

I'm making over $100 per hour.

The main trick (of course) is to play well.

Another is that live action is more dependable than tournaments.

Tournaments are a hard way to make money. Although many do playing sit & goes. It's just too hard to cash. And the sample size to really know if you're doing well takes too long to obtain--many years.

I play over 310 hands per hour (multitable). There are swings of course. But at that rate a bad losing streak might be a month. In a live casino game maybe 6 months. In tournaments, several years.

Yet another trick is to have a bankroll large enough to handle the swings. At 2/4 holdem at least $1000, $2000 even better. The way you get this is play small and pay your dues. Not only will your bankroll grow, but you will gain much needed experience.

Finally, you should be reading the best books on the subject. Start with those published by 2+2. In fact there are only a handful of books not published by 2+2 that are any good. Many will do more harm than good.

Nobody is there to give you their money. You have to work hard to get it (Actually most ARE giving away their money, learn how to get your share).

If you are not willing to do what it takes then you will be among the 90% or so who loses online. And as another poster said, thanks for the donation.:drink:

Yorick, what books do you recommend from 2+2? I have been playing the .25/.50c 6 person nlhe at stars, I built my bankroll to the point where I decided to move up to .50/1.00 and have been having success there as well. I can say almost everytime I've lost significant hands, its been a mistake on my part as opposed to someone getting really lucky(they may have gotten lucky but I paid them more than I should have for it). I laugh quietly at all the people who get busted and say they got starzed again. I had a guy with aces pay me $75 today because I was on the bb with q4 and he didn't raise me pre-flop. Flop comes Q4 and then he starts betting like a banchi. When the hand is over he laments the site because his aces didn't stand up?

 

[udflyer]

My niche on the internet is $100 or $200 Single Table Tourneys. That is all I play and have developed a winning system for getting in the money consistently over the years. I play on xtremebluff, bodog and paradise.

 

[yorick]

Yorick, what books do you recommend from 2+2?

If you were to only read one book then I recommend Small Stakes Hold'em, By Ed Miller. If you play the way he recommends then you will crush most games up to the 20/40 level online. In casino games you will have to adjust at 10/20 and above, as players play more in line in person.

But honestly, you may not understand some of the concepts unless you also read The Theory of Poker, By David Sklansky. And you really should read it regardless.

Holdem Poker for Advanced Players, by Sklansky and Malmuth is also strongly recommended. Some of the recommendations are different than in SSHE because its geared for playing against better players. Sometimes even the small stakes games, especially in casinos, play tougher than usual and you must understand the concepts in this book to properly adjust.

Inside the Poker Mind:, By John Feeney can be a great help if you are struggling.

Due out in a couple of months, Sklansy and Miller have a book adressing live no-limit games. I expect it to be the best by far of any no-limit books out there. You no-limit players will want this one.

You must read these books over and over again until you "get it". And you must also get experience at the tables to fully understand the concepts. Then read the books again. It took me a few years before other players recognized me as a good player. A few more years to actually become a winning player. And a few more years (and a lot of bad opponents) to win big at the game. And I still have a lot to learn, although the urgency is no longer there. :thumbsup:

There are other issues involved in poker and gambling which you should become familiar with. I also recommend in no particluar order:

Getting the Best of It -- My favorite gambling book.
Gambling Theory and Other Topics -- Important. Malmuth also rates other gambling books in the back--invaluable!
Poker Essays, Poker Essays II, and Poker Essays III
Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players -- For stud players
High-Low Split Poker for Advanced Players -- For Omaha 8 and 7 Card High/low players
Sklansky on Poker -- For Razz players
Getting Started In Holdem -- I haven't read this but I suspect it will be of great help to new players.

Non 2+2 books:

Real Poker II, by Roy Cooke -- He shows play by play how to think in a poker hand. More useful against better players.

Middle Limit Holdem, by Bob Ciaffone and Jim Brier -- Criticized for recommending play that is too "tight". I agree. But SSHE should take care of that! Still can be of help.

Caro's Book of Tells, by Mike Caro -- Useful against weaker opponents in casion games. You need to read it for casino games. Useless online.

And finally, posting your questions on poker forums where good players hang out can be a great help to your game. The best is, you guessed it, the 2+2 forums.

 

[yorick]

And 1 more thing...i gotta post this hand......im probably well close to a million hands played by now and i dont think i've ever seen this before.....AND whats great is..I wasn't on the losing end for a change!!!!!!!!!!!!


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I've actually seen this several times. Someone flop a set or have a big pair and lose to ace high when quads show up on the board. And with betting too.
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[QuickLearner]

Yorick's list is a great start. Here are a few additions:

The Little Green Book by Phil Gordon is great for NL. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that it's for beginners. Gordon is a great player and turns out to be a great writer, too.

Weighing the Odds in Limit Hold'em by King Yao is a great companion to SSH. The shorthanded section is worth the price all by itself.

Improve Your Poker by Bob Ciaffone may be his best work...even better than Pot Limit and No Limit Poker which is saying a ton. It's a collection of essays.

There are 4 chapters in Super System II that are definitely worth reading: Limit Hold'em, 7Stud 8/B, Oh 8/B, and Triple Draw. The rest is worth reading so you can say you read it.

If you are completely new to NL tourneys and want to feel less helpless while you learn, Kill Phil by Rodman and Nelson will teach you a method that will get you started. DO NOT take the Kill Phil game to the cash tables or you will leave broke.

One note about SSH: it's strong medicine. If you've learned to break even as a weak-tight limit player (I guess that means that you learned from Lee Jones or ...shudder... Ken Warren...) the SSH style of play will feel unnatural. Miller/Sklansky/Malmuth teach a lot of aggression tempered by a complete understanding of situation. It won't be enough to learn that you should 3-bet when you have 2nd pair. You'll need to learn when and why. Until then, you'll just lose a couple of extra bets.

 

[degenerategambler]

Guys, thanx for taking the time to give such detailed responses. I have been playing on line for about a year, I was fortunate last year and won a seat into the world series on my 1st attempt in a qualifier, which was a lot fun but out of my league. I'm winning consistently at the lower levels, I want to continue to build my bankroll and continue to inch up. The level of competition at the .50/1.00 is very weak so I don't hold any delusions of grandeur, I want to sharpen up and continue to climb the ladder.

 

[yorick]

Guys, thanx for taking the time to give such detailed responses. I have been playing on line for about a year, I was fortunate last year and won a seat into the world series on my 1st attempt in a qualifier, which was a lot fun but out of my league. I'm winning consistently at the lower levels, I want to continue to build my bankroll and continue to inch up. The level of competition at the .50/1.00 is very weak so I don't hold any delusions of grandeur, I want to sharpen up and continue to climb the ladder.

The level of competition at 20/40 is weak too. Just make sure you're beating the stakes you're at for at least 1 big bet per hour (averaged over at least 1000 hours) before moving up. You should have at least 300 big bets of the next limit before moving up. So to move up to $1/$2 you should have a $600 bankroll and have won at least $1000 over the past 1000 hours. You can move up with less, but realize that you are "taking a shot" at the higher level and do not really have enough to sustain fluctuations--so you better start off winning and not losing.

 

[degenerategambler]

The level of competition at 20/40 is weak too. Just make sure you're beating the stakes you're at for at least 1 big bet per hour (averaged over at least 1000 hours) before moving up. You should have at least 300 big bets of the next limit before moving up. So to move up to $1/$2 you should have a $600 bankroll and have won at least $1000 over the past 1000 hours. You can move up with less, but realize that you are "taking a shot" at the higher level and do not really have enough to sustain fluctuations--so you better start off winning and not losing.

Great advice thank you, my bankroll is big enough to move up now, and I could stake myself for more with no problem if I had to. But like my sports betting, it needs to built and maintained legimately or your only fooling yourself. We'll report back in, and let you know how its going.

 

[crazyivan]

Ivan, keep the affiliate links in Site Promos

 

[hockey8799]

Is limit holdem more profitable then no limit....and is limit more based on stragegy

 

[Sportsrmylife]

Is limit holdem more profitable then no limit....and is limit more based on stragegy

Good question. I don't know exactly by the numbers. I know that in limit when there are multiple players in the pot that your draws become more profitable as the math will tell you to call more often than in NL.

NL you can win alot of chips in one hand or send your chips across the table. I'd be interested in this answer as well.

 

[QuickLearner]

Is limit holdem more profitable then no limit....and is limit more based on stragegy

For me, limit hold'em is more profitable because I'm better at that game. Both games are strategy-based. The strategies, however, are so different that you have to consider them completely different games.

 

[Dominique77]

I find $3-$6 to be good for not losing the house, but you get alot of suckouts

 

[nascarphenom]

much like most of you, i am very streaky. there are times where i keep playing b.c i cant seem to lose, then there are times that no matter what i do, i cant win


i play on paradisepoker and pokerstars


paradise is ok, but they seem to give the worse hand the winning "runner runner" waaaaaaaaay too often

pokerstars is great. i put in 500 and built it up to 3000 in a matter of two weeks. withdrew 2000 of it when i went to vegas. the 1000 i had left when bye bye verrrrrrrrrrrrry quickly. seemed like the moment i withdrew money, they gave me shit cards than could never win


i know everyone has their issues with online poker....i just do it for the enjoyment...not to pay rent