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RX Jesus
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yea i would just throw down some stops at 58 and 25.50 or whatever you are comfortable with... watching these things over some time i bet you will see a jump in the morning at these levels at market open... then just raise your stop levels and at least try to break even if you are that concerned...

sure you might lose 5% but i wouldnt even dwell on that. just use what works for you and move on to the next trade.

on a side note, FAZ has been trading in a easy pattern to follow. im on the sideline but i will be interested to see what happens tomorrow. my assumptions are that it will open around 9.40 or so, make a quick run in the 10-10.20 range early in the session and then slowly pare off the gains throughout the day. this is based purely on how i have seen it over the past few weeks and has zero technical knowledge behind it lol. for some reason the technicals dont mean shit in this market. its like throwing shit on the wall and seeing what sticks.
 
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Thanks for your views guys. I held firm. I don't have access to the computer 'till about now in the afternoon and I didn't want to put in an overnight stop as these babies are too volatile.

My view of the technicals shows a collapse real soon. I was wrong once before a few weeks ago but I think we're on the precipice now. We'll see.

Keep the commentary and views going. It helps me and hopefully others.
 

RX Jesus
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it may go down soon but the question is how far down will your etfs go before you get the recovery you see coming? with the ways these are leveraged you are gonna lose your ass waiting for your spot to come. and i hate the idea of cost averaging down with the decay value... if i were you i would wait for a quick bump up in todays trading and sell off what i have unless you are strong in your conviction that monday will bring a steep sell off. jmho. good luck.
 
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No cost averaging down with these things for me Shane. It's a one time win or loss.

I am fully aware at all times that the long term direction of the market is up. So these inverse ETFs may never see their highs or even current price levels again.

But there WILL be a correction. I'm expecting it real soon.

How far are you expecting us to move up before a likely correction SSI?
 

Oh boy!
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it may go down soon but the question is how far down will your etfs go before you get the recovery you see coming? with the ways these are leveraged you are gonna lose your ass waiting for your spot to come. and i hate the idea of cost averaging down with the decay value... if i were you i would wait for a quick bump up in todays trading and sell off what i have unless you are strong in your conviction that monday will bring a steep sell off. jmho. good luck.

This is why I am out of the market right now (except for my very long-term investment and a little bit of gold). Market seems to be going sideways. It could still go up and up so I don't want to be holding the bag on any short investments right now.

Mike, I hope you are right with your investment.

:toast:
 

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Handicapper
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No cost averaging down with these things for me Shane. It's a one time win or loss.

I am fully aware at all times that the long term direction of the market is up. So these inverse ETFs may never see their highs or even current price levels again.

But there WILL be a correction. I'm expecting it real soon.

How far are you expecting us to move up before a likely correction SSI?

Back in the day when I daytraded ETF's and stocks...I always used MA crossovers for entering and exiting trades.

Is anybody here doing this?

There is so much to be made on leveraged ETF's anyway...why not give up a little of the move to jump on momentum after the fact and ride it...rather than guessing the turns?

Just my two cents.
 

SSI

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Mistermj is 100% correct, momentum trading is what you should be doing.. notice i mention all the time about getting in on Stop orders... they are momentum orders...

Michael, they are really wanting to take this higher, you can see that.. the question is (can they do it?)..

if we crack the 872-876 region, we will make a beeline for 902 on the SP futures, for what that is worth..

SSI
 

Oh boy!
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Back in the day when I daytraded ETF's and stocks...I always used MA crossovers for entering and exiting trades.

Is anybody here doing this?

There is so much to be made on leveraged ETF's anyway...why not give up a little of the move to jump on momentum after the fact and ride it...rather than guessing the turns?

Just my two cents.

I've been hearing a little bit about MA (moving average) crossovers but most of the stuff I hear about MA is that it oftentimes provides either support or resistance.

I like your idea about waiting to jump on an ETF when it has momentum. The question I have is what constitutes momentum? 2 points? 5 points? 10 points?

As you may have seen by some of my trades this week I had traded on what I hoped to be momentum. Some trades were successful, others were not.

Let me give you an example that I've given before. I bought SKF somewhere around 125 and it went up to 175 only to go down to 150. I sold my shares thinking it was going down again only to see it go up to 300. It was a head-fake.

As I was driving home from work today I thought that the leveraged ETFs were great to trade when VIX was high. I'm thinking I may not trade in these until VIX is a bit higher.
 

RX Jesus
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i like that idea QL... it might jump down 30 cents and then be back up 50 within a hour... once it gets up i throw down stops to ensure a profit. it sounds really nice in theory until the one time where it continues to tank. but lets be honest, this is pure gambling.

good luck to all lol
:toast:
 

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Handicapper
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I've been hearing a little bit about MA (moving average) crossovers but most of the stuff I hear about MA is that it oftentimes provides either support or resistance.

I like your idea about waiting to jump on an ETF when it has momentum. The question I have is what constitutes momentum? 2 points? 5 points? 10 points?

As you may have seen by some of my trades this week I had traded on what I hoped to be momentum. Some trades were successful, others were not.

Let me give you an example that I've given before. I bought SKF somewhere around 125 and it went up to 175 only to go down to 150. I sold my shares thinking it was going down again only to see it go up to 300. It was a head-fake.

As I was driving home from work today I thought that the leveraged ETFs were great to trade when VIX was high. I'm thinking I may not trade in these until VIX is a bit higher.

If you have the right MA...a crossover IS momentum. The number of points is irrelevant because it's already built into the average.

I used one made from Golden numbers...or Fibs as some call them now.

It was the bomb for signaling momentum on any time frame from minutes to monthly charts.

GD I miss the late 90's...we cleaned up with this shit. The internet stocks used to trade like a sine wave for months at a time....I'd sit there and pop em all day long on hourly charts...back and forth...short , long, short ATM machine. Sometimes you had to switch to 15 minute or 5 minute charts.

Broadcom, JDSU, Harmonic Light Wave,QCOM. I was trading with a guy in a regular forum like this that inherited $50,000 when his father died...turned it into 6 million bucks in just one year in 99....and then lost all of it except the original $50,000 in the Clinton bubble crash. :lol:

Yeah...I've seen some shit come and go...watching this thread kind of reminds me of all that again.
 

Oh boy!
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If you have the right MA...a crossover IS momentum. The number of points is irrelevant because it's already built into the average.

I used one made from Golden numbers...or Fibs as some call them now.

It was the bomb for signaling momentum on any time frame from minutes to monthly charts.

GD I miss the late 90's...we cleaned up with this shit. The internet stocks used to trade like a sine wave for months at a time....I'd sit there and pop em all day long on hourly charts...back and forth...short , long, short ATM machine. Sometimes you had to switch to 15 minute or 5 minute charts.

Broadcom, JDSU, Harmonic Light Wave,QCOM. I was trading with a guy in a regular forum like this that inherited $50,000 when his father died...turned it into 6 million bucks in just one year in 99....and then lost all of it except the original $50,000 in the Clinton bubble crash. :lol:

Yeah...I've seen some shit come and go...watching this thread kind of reminds me of all that again.

Interesting. I'll have to look into crossing MA more.

Speaking of losing money, I talk about the stock market with a co-worker. He said his dad knows of a guy who made around $6 or $7 million and lost it a short time after. The guy ended up committing suicide.

I also used to work with some guys who had Lucent stock back in 2000/2001 and after. When the price kept going down and down they all told each other that it would go back up eventually. It never did.
 

Oh boy!
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yea i would just throw down some stops at 58 and 25.50 or whatever you are comfortable with... watching these things over some time i bet you will see a jump in the morning at these levels at market open... then just raise your stop levels and at least try to break even if you are that concerned...

sure you might lose 5% but i wouldnt even dwell on that. just use what works for you and move on to the next trade.

on a side note, FAZ has been trading in a easy pattern to follow. im on the sideline but i will be interested to see what happens tomorrow. my assumptions are that it will open around 9.40 or so, make a quick run in the 10-10.20 range early in the session and then slowly pare off the gains throughout the day. this is based purely on how i have seen it over the past few weeks and has zero technical knowledge behind it lol. for some reason the technicals dont mean shit in this market. its like throwing shit on the wall and seeing what sticks.

From now on I won't buy a stock unless I have a solid loss target in place, even on my short-term trades. I get in the habit of thinking "ok, it went down a little bit but eventually it will get back to my purchase price". Then when I wait and wait it can continue to go down.

If I set a loss target it will force me to take a loss at that point instead of holding too long.
 

Breaking Bad Snob
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94??!!??

ProShares Files For 3X Leverage On 94 New ETFs

Despite warnings that speed can kill, another leading alternative exchange-traded funds sponsor is preparing to jump into the super-leveraged exchange-traded funds race.

ProShares is requesting that the Securities and Exchange Commission allow it to provide up to 300% leverage and 300% inverse exposure to 37 different indexes.

Although it's seeking so-called 3x approval for a list of some 94 new ETFs, it's highly unlikely the leading leveraged and inverse provider will launch all in the near future.

But even if only a handful on the new list are brought to market, the filing opens the door for ProShares to at least enter the most juiced-up leverage game in ETFs at the moment.

And that has proved to be quite a lucrative undertaking for the lone sponsor to make the leap from 200% coverage—the previous high among leveraged ETFs.

Rival Direxion upped the ante late last year by becoming the first to offer ETFs that aim at taking 300% leverage and inverse positions. (See story here.)

The other major player in the leverage ETF field, Rydex, also is awaiting government approval for its 3X proposals.

Meanwhile, as ProShares and Rydex sit on the sidelines, Direxion is gaining significant first-mover status in the field.

Since opening the space last November, Direxion has become one of the fastest-growing ETF companies. Entering Wednesday, it had roughly $3.4 billion in assets in 16 different 3x ETFs. In fact, through March, Direxion was running neck and neck with Vanguard Group for No. 2 among ETF providers this year in terms of net inflows.

But it was still trailing No. 1 ProShares by a wide margin, according to data compiled by the National Stock Exchange. And that's in terms of both asset levels and money flows. (See full story and tables here.)

The filing is clearly setting in motion the move for ProShares to increase its leadership position gained by a popular line of ETFs providing 200% inverse and leveraged exposure to a wide variety of underlying benchmarks.

No portfolio details were provided by ProShares about the focus of any future 3X leveraged or inverse fund.

But if approved, the request would provide a green light for 3X leverage and 3X inverse exposure through:
  • Some 25 different domestic equity ETFs
  • Another 62 international equity ETFs
  • And seven bond ETFs
The filing, dated April 14, actually is an amendment to previous requests to list new funds. In this document, however, additional benchmarks with corresponding ETFs are listed in Appendix A, item five.

These represent funds and indexes ProShares is asking the SEC to let it launch with as much as 3X leverage—although its wording is vague enough to allow the sponsor to adapt specific leverage and inverse multiples to the timing of any ETF's possible launch.

The listings also include the Credit Suisse 130/30 Large Cap Index. ProShares actually filed in late 2007 to offer a 130/30 ETF. But at the time, the exact index it would use wasn't made public.

You can read the latest amended ProShares filing here.

The list of potential 3X benchmarks ProShares is seeking regulatory approval to consider includes:

1. DJ Wilshire Total Market Index
2. Russell 1000 Index
3. Russell 3000 Index
4. Russell 3000 Value Index
5. Russell 3000 Growth Index
6. MSCI EAFE Index
7. MSCI EAFE Value Index
8. MSCI EAFE Growth Index
9. MSCI Emerging Markets Index
10. MSCI Japan Index
11. MSCI Pacific Free ex-Japan Index
12. MSCI Australia Index
13. MSCI Malaysia Index
14. MSCI Singapore Index
15. MSCI Europe Index
16. S&P Europe 350 Index
17. Russell/Nomura Prime Japan Index
18. Nikkei 255 Stock Average
19. FTSE/Xinhua China 25 Index
20. BONY Emerging Markets 50 ADR Index
21. BONY Developed Markets 100 ADR Index
22. BONY Japan Index
23. BONY China Index
24. Lehman US Aggregate Index
25. Lehman 7 - 10 Year Treasury Index
26. Lehman 20+ Year Treasury Index
27. iBoxx Liquid $ Investment Grade Index
28. iBoxx Liquid $ High Yield Index
29. NASDAQ Biotechnology Equal-Weighted Index
30. NASDAQ Clean Edge U.S. Liquid Series Index
31. NASDAQ-100 Equal Weighted Index
32. MSCI Brazil Index
33. MSCI Taiwan Index
34. MSCI South Korea Index
35. MSCI BRIC Index
36. MSCI Latin America Index
 

Oh boy!
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Interesting DEAC. I wonder how many of these will gain 300% only to lose 300% in a short amount of time.
 

Oh boy!
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Dow futures are down 120 points and I don't have any positions in short stocks. At first I was rather disappointment. However, I realize for all I knew the futures could be up 120 points and I would lose money.

It will be another interesting day on Wall Street on Monday.
 

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